putting myself at risk

[thekawaii]

okforget the paint. nobody love my car anyway.

i'm gonna put myself at risk

want to make 250whp.

as far as i know, stock maf will max out around here. But i'm not gonna upgrade maf. I deinitely need 450cc injectors and good tuning.

this is my current setup so far.Z31 t3 turbos13 side mount intercooler (i know it's useless)2 inch stock exhaustwalbro fuel pump

will 12 psi of boost make this much power?is it safe with proper tuning for my high milege KA24E?

So. I already have 450cc injectors. Let's say it takes 1.5 hour to tune it.total cost about 200 dollar just for tuning and rubber rings for injectors.

what am i missing.

[Jookmasta]

manifold, boost gauge, bov, new spark plugs (2 step colder), DP, new exhaust or bigger exhaust, SAFC or SAFCII or emanage, timing light (so u can retard ur base timing), oil lines, probably a clutch since u said high mileage..........................as for u making that power, u will make that power on that turbo at that psi level granted ur tuned properly.

last but not least, do a compression check b/f u install anything cuz there is no point turbo'n a motor if ur motor is about to call it quits on ya.

[thekawaii]

shoot sorry. i'm already boosting 6 psi.

so i have manifold, boost gauge, bov, spak plugs, dp, safc II, Oil lines.

also i'm not familier with boost controller and stuff. if you set your safc ii for 12 psi, what is gonna happen if you turn off your boost down to 7 psi? runnng super rich?

[Chezedik]

I would think it should take load into account. Or more appropriately, the stock ECU will take load into account. So no, not significantly richer. Your boost controller will tap into the line on the side of the compressor housing. From there you will be dumping boost back to the intake. The reason for this is that your actuator is set for 6.7Psi. So you need to send 5.3 psi of that back to the intake. This will cause the turbo to generate 12Psi to overcome the 6.7Psi spring, and the 5.3 Psi loss. You could also do like the 1G DSM guys do and take a 1/16" drill bit, and put a hole in the line, this will up the boost a little. My old boss used to do that, he said it was good for 2Psi on a 14c. Finally, I would like to see pics of your setup. Also, how did you mount the DP. I am also about to use the Z31, but with a t04B Vtrim compressor and 480cc injectors. But I can't decide exactly what I will do about getting a downpipe to work.For now, I have been thinking about the JGS manifold, and putting the turbine flange whereever it needs to be in order to clear the firewall with the stock dump, then either fab a downpipe or just get one from an SR and make an height adaptor, if necessary. Please, let me see pics! Give me info! How much power are you making at stock boost? My calc's should put you at 178 or so at the wheels.

[thekawaii]

You are right. but somehow, boost won't go over 6 psi.

anyways, search botton doesn't work, i posted my pic long time ago.

DP is just gettho welding used stock Z31 DP.

I'm not sure about HP, but i guess 10 hp per each pound, is what most people talk about T3. I didn't do dyno. But i'm guessing 160 RWHP. It's dang slow.

Full boost at about 2900~3000 rpm, it spools really quick almost no lag. (Turbo is old)

Stock Internal Wastegate. Never did boost spike.

[Chezedik]

Yeah, search is F'd up for me too. when it starts working, I would love a link.

[crzycav86]

okforget the paint. nobody love my car anyway.

i'm gonna put myself at risk

want to make 250whp.

as far as i know, stock maf will max out around here. But i'm not gonna upgrade maf. I deinitely need 450cc injectors and good tuning.

this is my current setup so far.Z31 t3 turbos13 side mount intercooler (i know it's useless)2 inch stock exhaustwalbro fuel pump

will 12 psi of boost make this much power?is it safe with proper tuning for my high milege KA24E?

So. I already have 450cc injectors. Let's say it takes 1.5 hour to tune it.total cost about 200 dollar just for tuning and rubber rings for injectors.

what am i missing.

It will make 250hp, but now with the stock exhaust. Get an exhaust cut out or something. or get one of those ssa catbacks for 260 shipped on ebay.

fmic would definitely help, but you'll probably make it with 12psi.

[KATwo40]

...timing light (so u can retard ur base timing)...

Whatever happened to turning the distributor? Worked for me.

Make a run...ping ping...turn distributor a hair...make a run...little ping...turn distributor again...make a run...no ping...leave it.

Oh, I should add, yes, a timing light would be the appropriate tool to make these adjustments. I'm not necessarily against it.

[Chezedik]

The distributor in the KA does NOT control timing. That has been covered a bazillion times. The distributor is not a distributor, it is a Cam Angle Sensor. You set the timing by pulling the plug on the TPS, and then change the idle. The timing is set from the factory at 16' BTDC, and the computer will set timing that way, irregardless of the distributor orientation, as long as you are in the ballpark. However, if you are out of the ballpark, you may cause a misfire that will cause you not to ping.

[nissanfanatic]

Whatever happened to turning the distributor? Worked for me.

Make a run...ping ping...turn distributor a hair...make a run...little ping...turn distributor again...make a run...no ping...leave it.

Oh, I should add, yes, a timing light would be the appropriate tool to make these adjustments. I'm not necessarily against it.

FAIL.

First of all, you should never start in the danger area of timing or Air/Fuel. Start at a known "safe" tune. AKA 7psi setup, 14* BTDC would be a good timing value to start at for tuning. And rich the hell out of it. You can pull fuel accordingly. Then play with timing some while watching AFR because timing changes can change AFR. Personally on a street driven car, I woudl just set to 15* BTDC and call it a day.. But then again, buying a tuned ECU would solve your problems there. Or at least a MSD BTM...

Second, just because you can't hear detonation or pinging doesn't mean it isn't happening. You should DYNO TUNE when making such adjustments. You would make adjustments off of the torque curve. Start at a known safe base timing and makes slow advances(1* at a time) and make a run after each advance. When you start to see areas of the torque curve dip back down, you would return to your previous setting and let it be.

Third, you cannot just "turn the distributor". As written here: http://www.ka-t.org/tech , use that method. A techtom is the best way to set timing accurately.

Fourth, your KA isn't gonna last very long by using "audible detonation/pre-ignition feedback". I'm suprised you actually made it through timing tuning by using that.

[Chezedik]

Thank you.

[KATwo40]

...Fourth, your KA isn't gonna last very long by using "audible detonation/pre-ignition feedback". I'm suprised you actually made it through timing tuning by using that.

Hmmm...interesting. My KA has 160k miles and has been running 10psi boost for months. In fact, the first couple months of running 7psi it was non-intercooled. I have been reading the knock monitor in conjuction with audible knock (we can't ignore audible knock totally, no matter how un-reliable it is for tuning...right?)

I read the link you gave me. I guess tomorrow is not only new wheel day. It's also "go set my timing correctly" day...DANGIT...now I need the dyno again! (yep, I've been on one for tuning, believe it or not)

Thanks again for the link...very helpful.

[KATwo40]

I would also like to add the following:

Please, someone explain to me how the distributor is a crank angle sensor, in depth? Not being sarcastic, just trying to educate myself.

Feel free to email to: [email protected]

Thanks.

[thekawaii]

I don't know what you guys are talking about.

I thought i'd never had to worry about timing and stuff since i got Single slammer! SOHC SOHC SOHC!!

I saw guy with sr20 was doing that. I didn't know what he was doing, but heard the engine idle smoother.

Anyway. i know my engine is not healty, probably 150 for compression.

And since i'm broke, i'm gonna try something that nobody ever bother to do. (I'm on budget too. i know it's not the best idea but i don't want to spend 700 dollar for intercooler for 400 dollar car.)

Twin S13 side mount intercooler on each side of car will do the cooling. (you got to love Home Depot plumbing. ) also i'm gonna do elec fan with bigger altima radiator with built in sensor for elec fan. (goes to relay)

Oh and my exhaust is already cracked. I only have cat conv. and nothing else. just stright pipe with cat conv.

[nissanfanatic]

Look buddy, despite how good you think your tuning method is, that isn't how you set timing on an EFI system. Beyond your "listen for detonation" world, there is a load vs throttle position vs RPM world where you have to "SET" base timing correctly. Not just change timing wherever you think you should.

That link wasn't necessarily for you, as its clear that you don't need to do things like Nissan does...

And how much power do you make again?

[Jookmasta]

never should u use that method..........timing light is key and i didnt just say turn the distributor. u must unplug the tps and yadayadayada. im sure the link cory posted explained it well.

12 psi will net u over the 250rwhp mark. how do i know? well im running a str8 t3 and im yielding those numbers. 6 psi should put u above 200wrhp i would think. never dyno'd that low unfortunately.

as for the stock ecu compensating for u going down in boost..............it wont. our ecu's are programmed like that. remember our ecu's dont even a map thats near what a turbo'd car's ecu would have. if u did have fuel setup for 12 psi and turned down the boost to six psi, u would b running stupidly rich and i dont know exactly what would happen. dont go finding out either. if u decide to turn down the boost, u must either retune or plug in numbers in ur safc for the 6 psi tune. timing should also be bumped up as u dont need 14 degrees base timing for 6 psi on a str8 t3..............hope this helps

[thekawaii]

All i'm hoping is SAFC II might have memory to save more than one data.So i can change it to either for 6psi or for 12 psi.

(wait! 200 rwhp just for 6psi? No way. i could be 200 whp but 200 at wheel..... then i wouldn't have to worry about power anymore.)

[Jookmasta]

well 6 psi should net u more than 160 rwhp with any turbo seeing as how thats only a 30 rwhp increase from stock (my stock numbers that is)

[nissanfanatic]

Andre, note that I said 14* BTDC is a good "safe" starting point for tuning.

[thekawaii]

i have lots of things going on in my car.

i thought you'd know because you answered most of my questions.

i know, i can't forget your id picture

(Fed up brand spanking new autozone clutch issue is included)

[Jookmasta]

ah almost overlooked that one. yes thanks for pointing that out to me. i will bump timing down a notch then when doing the new tuning with the new maf installed. good stuff cory. still jealous of your ecu and injectors..............lol.

[KATwo40]

Look buddy, despite how good you think your tuning method is, that isn't how you set timing on an EFI system. Beyond your "listen for detonation" world, there is a load vs throttle position vs RPM world where you have to "SET" base timing correctly. Not just change timing wherever you think you should.

That link wasn't necessarily for you, as its clear that you don't need to do things like Nissan does...

And how much power do you make again?

Wow, did I word something incorrectly to insult you or excite your ego? I was simply stating that, no matter how you tune, you can't rule out audible knock. In even more plain English, if you're tuning, hear audible knock, then you MUST do something about it.

I didn't say I don't need to do things like Nissan does. In fact, as stated in my previous post, today I'll be re-timing the car, according to the helpful link you gave me. Didn't I thank you for the info?

And how much power do I make? What, are we 16 now? Sheesh.

Back to my question, and please, someone with much more control over their ego answer:

How, exactly, does the ECU use the distributor as a cam angle sensor?

This is not a question to cause an argument. This is a question to further educate myself, because I'm not opposed to learning something new, acknowledging that I'm less knowledgeable than others, etc. Not trying to re-invent the wheel here, just tryin' to figure out why it rolls the way it rolls.

[Jookmasta]

no i dont think he meant to come off as an insult to u. i think he generally wanted to know how much power u were making by using that adjustment method for ur timing. or at least thats what i think. i know of a person who ran really high base timing and after a couple months, the engine went. he made good power compared to what similar setups were producing but the timing is what gave him those numbers. maybe he was inquiring ur power just to see what u were getting by using that method?

i wish i could answer ur cam angle sensor question but someone else can have a go at that.

[Chezedik]

First, no I was not trying to insult, just clear up the mis-info. It uses it as a cam angle sensor because the ECU uses the pickup signal to trigger the transistor to spark,as well as timing injection. In a plain jane distributor there would be a module or points to break the circuit and cause the spark, the rotor would hopefully be pointing at the appropriate cylinder contact, and boom, spark. Ours do that too, but they also have a hand in fuel injection. The thing is that they have no control over timing. As you see under the hood of most new cars: timing is preset from the factory, and is not adjustable. That is not true that it is not adjustable, but they tell you that to discourage you from doing it. The computer has the timing map, and automatically sets base timing at 16'. So it isn't really a distributor in the sense that it you can't adjust timing via it.In the original fuel injection setups, they basically just replaced the carb's jets with injectors, and called it TBI. In most cases, the ignition system was still completely separate. During these years you will see that the typical injected car lost power when compared to the carb'ed counterpart. The reason is that spark cannot be independent of fuel. As everyone here with a turbo knows, or will find out when they pop their motor. Along comes Bosch Motronic (total engine management), which is what the Nissan has. Actually, it's a bastardized system from Bosch-Japan, but it looks like a Bosch, smells like a Bosch, and acts like a Bosch, so guess what?Hope that helps.

[Chezedik]

Kawaii, search function is back, can you get picks? I am searching now.

[thekawaii]

I guess you found it.

But anyway. HEY! IS ALL THAT ABOVE NECESSARY FOR MY ENGINE? I did quite a lot of research but didn't see any ignition timing issue.

[Chezedik]

Yeah, you start upping the boost, you will likely need to pull some timing. Also, you will need to spend some time tuning. You may also consider overhauling you turbo and using the T04B compressor, you will find that with low boost you will reach that goal. Here is a link to where you can find the map:http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/turbotech.htmlI have thought about running mine at about 10psi, with 1psi drop across the cooler, I will be at 9 at engine. Any more than that will max out the MAF, but it will be good for (according to the calculator) 305.66 HP, so actually 275 or so, then considering driveline loss of 20% it will be about 220Whp. Of course, this is all theoretical. But you can get the stuff for the conversion + turbo rebuild for 200 bux, I got mine for 150 shipped. The best thing is: since it is a more efficient turbo, you can run a lower boost. This means you don't have to pull as much timing. So you get more power.

[KATwo40]

Thanks, Chezedik, for the explanation. That makes perfect sense.

I went out, followed procedure, checked my timing and guess what...25* BTDC!!! BAH! No wonder it was so snappy on the throttle! And no wonder I was getting random ping here and there.

So, it's now at 15*BTDC and 9psi. I have a BTM, but I'm not going to install that until spring, when I do the engine swap. (I have an S14 KADE with S13 ex. cams...gonna do forged innerds, valve job, HG, etc.) I should, however, make an appointment to get on the dyno for a proper tuning session. I'm sure my AFR's are all jacked up now...prolly rich.

Thanks again for the input, info, suggestions.

[Chezedik]

Good luck, man! Now the rest of us need to boost, by that I mean me, principally.

[nissanfanatic]

I thought you were being a smartass with me. Reread your post from my POV.

Sorry about my post tho.