Proper Operating Temperature on Redtop?

[chickentendah]

Does anyone here know what is the proper, warmed up, operating temperature on redtops? (where should the needle read)

If mine is already working fine, will installing the NISMO cooler thermostat actually makes things worse, meaning I'm working below recommended operating temperature? I have a Blitz LM FMIC blocking my oem SR radiator with shroud if it matters.

[GTS4-R]

mine is usually around 80 C sometimes upwards of 100....

[msaskin]

Temp when fully warmed up should be 180-200 fahrenheit (80-93 celsius). When you're actually moving and have load on the engine it'll get a bit higher.

~matt

[chickentendah]

thanks guys, that's some useful info............but all I got right now is my cluster's temperature meter

where is 80-93 deg C roughly on the cluster meter? 1/4, 1/3, 1/2 up?

[msaskin]

thanks guys, that's some useful info............but all I got right now is my cluster's temperature meter

where is 80-93 deg C roughly on the cluster meter? 1/4, 1/3, 1/2 up?

The stock gauge is 100% useless. Basically, the 1/2 way mark is anywhere from like, 80-110C. By the time the stock gauge starts rising up, you're already running too hot.

~matt

[Nismo_Freak]

It should run at 180 - 190 deg. F

Thermostat regulated.

[mynismo]

The stock gauge is 100% useless. Basically, the 1/2 way mark is anywhere from like, 80-110C. By the time the stock gauge starts rising up, you're already running too hot.

~matt

yes, you can't judge by the stock meter at all. i noticed that once i installed an autometer water temp gauge... the needle would be already halfway up before my autometer would even start moving (approx 130F). it would stay halfway all the way up to about 220F, when it would start to move up. by about 235F its all the way on H.

the only way to know the exact temp you're running is to either get a water temp gauge in there or hook up the diagnostic tool from nissan.

i was just thinking about the properties of the nismo thermostat myself... i would think the engine would be running too cool since proper operating temp is above 180F. the stock thermostat opens at 169F, while the nismo one opens at something like 149F. the temperature difference from the thermostat to the temp sensor on the block is about 10F, which is why we usually run at about 180F. if you get the nismo one you'd prolly be running between 160-170F, which is not quite warm enough.

i've been through lots of discussions about this with many people as well as my mechanic who has done a few sr swaps (lots of other swaps) and knows his stuff. he said that the engine must be at least 180F otherwise the the ecu will not read correctly. the engine must be at a specific operating temperature or the engine will not be operating at its best conditions. my fans are controlled by a thermostat drilled into the radiator right below the lower radiator hose... they come on at 200F, and go off at 180F. keep in mind the temperature of the engine is slightly hotter coming out of the block (approx 10F), because the coolant has to pass through the radiator, cool down, and the fan readings are judged after the coolant is cooled down. so the fans are really coming on about temp readings of 190F and 210F out of the block.

i went a little in depth on this, but chances are if you are running fine with the stock thermostat just keep it in. your money is better invested in either a koyo aluminum radiator or dual flexalites (which im running do to the fmic blocking the radiator as well).

i know a lot of companies sell lower temp thermostats for other cars as well, but i doubt the reasoning for them because the engine must be at its peak operating temperature to run correctly.

[chickentendah]

very good info

to know that my stock temp gauge is practically useless is very unsettling. It almost makes me want to purchase a water temp gauge, etc.

anyways, since I'm short of funds and I'm not made out of greens. How do I do a quick diagnostic of my temperature without making any modifications to the SR? What tools do I need?

[msaskin]

There's nothing you can really do. Get a water temp gauge...you can get an autometer one for like, $40.

~matt

[mynismo]

either that or get the diagnostic tool at nissan and test it out (which you can really only do if you know someone over at nissan)

a gauge is pretty cheap as mentioned. all you need is that and a place to put the sensor into (ex. upper radiator hose). spend the money you were going to spend on the thermostat on a gauge

[chickentendah]

I've had a nismo thermostat for a year now......It's just sitting there in my living room collecting dust..

Anyone here have a good experience with the Blitz Cooling Performer upper radiator hose? Should I go mechanical or electrical with the Gauge?

[mynismo]

the blitz hose is probably the best thing to use for the temp gauge.

[nismostate]

i have koyo alu, nismo thermostat, and nismo radiator cap. It always sit a little bit below the center. never have I seen it get hotter even during hard pulls. should i be concerned about that? i never thought about running it too cold is a problem. im sure it'll effect it more during the winter too...

[mynismo]

as said before, the stock needle doesn't move. it sits slightly below middle if its anywhere between 120F and 220F. you need an aftermarket gauge to get any idea of how your car's running.

[Nismo_Freak]

I've had a nismo thermostat for a year now......It's just sitting there in my living room collecting dust..

Anyone here have a good experience with the Blitz Cooling Performer upper radiator hose? Should I go mechanical or electrical with the Gauge?

You can get a Greddy water temp adaptor for alot less.

[Nismo_Freak]

i was just thinking about the properties of the nismo thermostat myself... i would think the engine would be running too cool since proper operating temp is above 180F. the stock thermostat opens at 169F, while the nismo one opens at something like 149F. the temperature difference from the thermostat to the temp sensor on the block is about 10F, which is why we usually run at about 180F. if you get the nismo one you'd prolly be running between 160-170F, which is not quite warm enough.

Thats all fine and dandy but get an SR out on the track and you'll soon see why they sell the hell out of the thermostats. The engine has a well known overheating problem on the track. Anything you can do to maximize flow of coolant into and out of the block and to a large radiator helps to minimize this.

For daily driving the car can run cool yes... and yes the fuel curves are set for a certain temperature of operation along with alot of other parameters.

The thermostats are ment to prevent overheating from driving the car hard while maintaining drivability.

[chickentendah]

You can get a Greddy water temp adaptor for alot less.

hmmmmm, i would very much like to simplify the installation of a water temp gauge and save $$$ at the same time

do you have a link or picture of this item?

[mynismo]

Thats all fine and dandy but get an SR out on the track and you'll soon see why they sell the hell out of the thermostats. The engine has a well known overheating problem on the track. Anything you can do to maximize flow of coolant into and out of the block and to a large radiator helps to minimize this.

For daily driving the car can run cool yes... and yes the fuel curves are set for a certain temperature of operation along with alot of other parameters.

The thermostats are ment to prevent overheating from driving the car hard while maintaining drivability.

a lot of overheating at the track is do to the water pump cavitating though... or insufficient fans. but i see why some would want to run it at the track..

[msaskin]

I never had overheating problems with my car out at the track.

streets of willow springs, 105 degrees outside, 30 minute sessions, STOCK cooling system (silvia radiator, stock thermostat, 30/70 water:coolant + water wetter, stock clutch fan)

~matt

[s13sr20chris]

my stock temp gauge will not move from center from 120*F to 240*F(the hottest it ever got while doing burnouts). i think the track cooling issues come from the water pump cavitation. i think that a better solution than a cooler thermostat would be a ported one. ways to cut down on cavitation1)higher system pressure(nismo cap)2)less restriction on the suction side of water pump(cut just a little material from the bleed hole in the top of the thermostat)i already have no1 and intend to do no2 one of theese days.heh heh, i said i intend to do no2.anyway, cheap temp gauge hookup. pass up on the fancy adaptors. drill a hole in the upper rad hose neck(where the air bleeder is) and tap a 1/4 by 27 npt hole. then you can screw an $8.00 vdo sensor in it. wire it to a cheap electronic temp gauge from http://www.egauges.com(i like vdo) and you are good to go.

[Nismo_Freak]

a lot of overheating at the track is do to the water pump cavitating though... or insufficient fans. but i see why some would want to run it at the track..

Um no... the overheating is throughout SR vehicles. From S13, S14, and S15 engines. Cavitation is not causing the problem.

What good is a fan at 40+ mph on a track? It becomes a restriction if anything.

[Nismo_Freak]

I never had overheating problems with my car out at the track.

streets of willow springs, 105 degrees outside, 30 minute sessions, STOCK cooling system (silvia radiator, stock thermostat, 30/70 water:coolant + water wetter, stock clutch fan)

~matt

I was mainly talking about cars that are modified heavily... stock turbo SR's can have overheating issues with prolonged track usage. Depends on alot of variables.

Honestly from what I've seen between Z32s and 240's ... stock cooling systems often have far less overheating issues. Don't ask me why ... it doesn't make sense to me either.

[Nismo_Freak]

my stock temp gauge will not move from center from 120*F to 240*F(the hottest it ever got while doing burnouts). i think the track cooling issues come from the water pump cavitation. i think that a better solution than a cooler thermostat would be a ported one. ways to cut down on cavitation1)higher system pressure(nismo cap)2)less restriction on the suction side of water pump(cut just a little material from the bleed hole in the top of the thermostat)i already have no1 and intend to do no2 one of theese days.heh heh, i said i intend to do no2.anyway, cheap temp gauge hookup. pass up on the fancy adaptors. drill a hole in the upper rad hose neck(where the air bleeder is) and tap a 1/4 by 27 npt hole. then you can screw an $8.00 vdo sensor in it. wire it to a cheap electronic temp gauge from http://www.egauges.com(i like vdo) and you are good to go.

Cavitation is basically compressor surge... the pressure on the outlet side exceeds the pressure on the inlet side causing the compressor to stall, or in this case not flow at all.

If anything you need to reduce the speed of the impeller.

Why port the thermostat when you can buy a Billion high flow thermostat with a cooler operation built into it. SPL Parts sells them.

[s13sr20chris]

i think that you are right about cavitation being similar to compressor surge, but i think it may be an oversimplification. nissan sr20 engines are not the only engines to suffer from cavitation. old chrysler v8's were horrible about it and there are others. a few things always make it worse. more water pump output and more restriction by the thermostat were two. of course improper coolant and system pressure did not help. i would think that reducing impeller speed would help too. for this i have searched everywhere for a larger diameter water pump pulley. i figure surely someone has thought of this before me. i found a couple of sr20 pulleys but the water pump is the same size. jwt has a larger pulley but they told me that they dont have one(?). what is the solution? i think an electric water pump is the only solution. you just cant beat a water pump that has no parasitic loss from a drivebelt(i know about the alternator thing) and is always in its region of efficiency.i would not get a thermostat that starts opening at a lower temp as it is really kind of a band aid fix(imho). it may work, but i think sr cooling issues are usually related to inefficiency in the cooling system. nissan oem thermostats are very high quality pieces and i think they operate in the proper temp range for our street driven engines. racecars are another thing altogether. im sure you(nismo freak) have much more experience with this than i. for that reason you prob know better than i. i am just speculating.

one note to those with cooling issues:do something about your airflow. when i added cooling ducts to my 240 my coolant temp went down about 4 degrees at 40 mph and up. those were minimal ducts; nothing fancy here. i intend to vent my hood(properly but cheaply) to help with airflow.

[creophus]

I just ordered a Nismo thermostat... am I going to have a problem with that? I live in Florida and its a weekend driver.

Edit: Doesn't the thermostat only come into play when the engine is cold? Now that I think about this, won't the engine reach the exact same temperature (all things being equal) regardless of what thermostat you're using? Isn't it true that the stock thermostat will just wait until the engine is warmer to open, while the Nismo unit will open sooner?

It should be the cooling system (water pump, coolant mix, radiator) & engine load that determine the final operating temperature shouldn't it?

[Nismo_Freak]

I just ordered a Nismo thermostat... am I going to have a problem with that? I live in Florida and its a weekend driver.

Edit: Doesn't the thermostat only come into play when the engine is cold? Now that I think about this, won't the engine reach the exact same temperature (all things being equal) regardless of what thermostat you're using? Isn't it true that the stock thermostat will just wait until the engine is warmer to open, while the Nismo unit will open sooner?

It should be the cooling system (water pump, coolant mix, radiator) & engine load that determine the final operating temperature shouldn't it?

No problems with the Nismo thermostat.

The thermostat is always in play... generally it depends on how you are driving and the condition of your cooling system but it's sole purpose is to regulate heat within the motor.

Driving down the highway on a cool night with no thermostat you will actually drop below operational temperature in coolant temps.

[Nismo_Freak]

i think that you are right about cavitation being similar to compressor surge, but i think it may be an oversimplification. nissan sr20 engines are not the only engines to suffer from cavitation. old chrysler v8's were horrible about it and there are others. a few things always make it worse. more water pump output and more restriction by the thermostat were two. of course improper coolant and system pressure did not help. i would think that reducing impeller speed would help too. for this i have searched everywhere for a larger diameter water pump pulley. i figure surely someone has thought of this before me. i found a couple of sr20 pulleys but the water pump is the same size. jwt has a larger pulley but they told me that they dont have one(?). what is the solution? i think an electric water pump is the only solution. you just cant beat a water pump that has no parasitic loss from a drivebelt(i know about the alternator thing) and is always in its region of efficiency.i would not get a thermostat that starts opening at a lower temp as it is really kind of a band aid fix(imho). it may work, but i think sr cooling issues are usually related to inefficiency in the cooling system. nissan oem thermostats are very high quality pieces and i think they operate in the proper temp range for our street driven engines. racecars are another thing altogether. im sure you(nismo freak) have much more experience with this than i. for that reason you prob know better than i. i am just speculating.

one note to those with cooling issues:do something about your airflow. when i added cooling ducts to my 240 my coolant temp went down about 4 degrees at 40 mph and up. those were minimal ducts; nothing fancy here. i intend to vent my hood(properly but cheaply) to help with airflow.

ARC makes a pulley that corrects the cavitation issue.

Honestly there's different setups for different uses and so there really is no right or wrong as long as the car doesn't overheat.

A track car will have everything under the sun and a street car can get away with factory stuff.

The only thing NO one should rely on is the factory needle... it's horribly inaccurate and YES, you can be overheating with the needle still in the middle.

[creophus]

Thanks for dropping the knowledge Nismo_Freak. I didn't think about the thermostat opening and closing during driving conditions. I guess I thought it only came into play when the car warms up. But I guess it closes again if the engine is getting too cold.

[Nismo_Freak]

Yeah, in a warm climate it's pretty much always open after the engine warms up.

Honestly this talk about the engine "running too cool" is kinda just an over-technical excuse, yes it can run too cool but the engineers at Billion and Nismo understand this as well. They know far more about the subject than you or I.

[nismostate]

wow. this was a good thread. i want to invest in a water temp gauge now! considering my HUD sucks and the speedometer drops to 0 sometimes when im driving normally and the trip is all jacked up. i've noticed that the water pump goes out often on SR's. when it does go out and you don't know it, it can cause all types of problems. buddy of mine went through 2 radiators and jb weld before he finally realized the water pump was out.