Project Road Terror Z

[riu]

i'm sorry but that looks like a terrible place to mount the turbo, the first driveway you see and you're going to smash that thing. i dont' trust mounting anything lower than the lower radiator support.

you think you could possibly mount it right under or next to your intake? that way it sits a good 6+ inches higher than the smic mounting points. and then take out the extraneous snorkel intake tubes for the stock airbox and run your piping through their?

your project is in too good of shape to just risk putting the turbo there

[qsiguy]

I agree on the injectors. It's too much work to take off that plenum once you get this beauty together. Shouldn't be difficult at all to just take a stock bin and change the K value and latency. I haven't messed with the latency but I have the K value and it's simple. I'll have to look around to find it but I seem to remember coming across a simple program to help you calculate the desired K value.

[npez]

i'm sorry but that looks like a terrible place to mount the turbo, the first driveway you see and you're going to smash that thing. i dont' trust mounting anything lower than the lower radiator support.

you think you could possibly mount it right under or next to your intake? that way it sits a good 6+ inches higher than the smic mounting points. and then take out the extraneous snorkel intake tubes for the stock airbox and run your piping through their?

your project is in too good of shape to just risk putting the turbo there

Roger,

Thanks for the feedback. I have investigated different positions for the turbos but when mounted higher, the exhaust plumbing ends up with too many bends (not good for spool nor heat management). The exhaust plumbing is underneath the turbos with relatively straight shots from the exhaust manifold when they're mounted lower as pictured. I'll take a look again and see if there's anyway to do them higher but FYI the airbox, IC plumbing, etc. are all gone and will not be used. The setup will go to a custom front-mount IC, unless I can figure out a better way to fit them where the airbox used to be and maintain some sanity with the exhaust plumbing. With my setup I have to fit 2 Y pipes to accomodate the external wastegates as well, which further complicates the exhaust side plumbing.

I'll post some pics if I come up with something better than the current scenario.

Thanks again,Nick.

[npez]

I agree on the injectors. It's too much work to take off that plenum once you get this beauty together. Shouldn't be difficult at all to just take a stock bin and change the K value and latency. I haven't messed with the latency but I have the K value and it's simple. I'll have to look around to find it but I seem to remember coming across a simple program to help you calculate the desired K value.

Hi Shane,

Thanks for the feedback and assist. I ordered the Nistune software earlier this week and received the registration key from Matt at Nistune while I was in California this week (I actually just got home). I will call the folks that have my coated/plated parts and make sure they're ready so I can pick them up tomorrow, and will then proceed to do the ECU modification, so it can be socketed (I have a 5-day weekend ahead of me but will spend part of Saturday helping Jerry with his harness modification). My understanding is that we can load the stock program in Nistune and then use the software to state that the injector size has changed and it goes in and changes everything automatically. When I get to that point, I'll e-mail you a screenshot of what it says so we can do a sanity check on how this works. If it works like it states it does, we may be ok. I'll let you know as soon as I'm there (hopefully in the next 2-3 days)

Thanks again,Nick.

[qsiguy]

Sounds like a plan. I'm looking forward to seeing how well Nistune works for you. The stock K value is 198 with 370 injectors. Going to 555's I believe you would change it to 132. Not sure of the other values yet.

Not sure how your dual MAF setup will need to be setup. For mine I had to expand the TP scales because stock only went up to 72 and I'm hitting TP's up to around 100. I expanded mine up to 128. With the dual maf's your's may not go that high since it's only reading half the air flow. Stock may be ok. You should know more once you do a map trace and see where the TP is.

[npez]

Sounds like a plan. I'm looking forward to seeing how well Nistune works for you. The stock K value is 198 with 370 injectors. Going to 555's I believe you would change it to 132. Not sure of the other values yet.

Not sure how your dual MAF setup will need to be setup. For mine I had to expand the TP scales because stock only went up to 72 and I'm hitting TP's up to around 100. I expanded mine up to 128. With the dual maf's your's may not go that high since it's only reading half the air flow. Stock may be ok. You should know more once you do a map trace and see where the TP is.

Cool - thanks Shane. My coated/plated parts weren't completed as expected on Friday, so I'm looking at getting everything back next week. I looked around and think on the MAF I'll be buying the 3.5" Diameter Pro-Tube (http://www.promracing.com/products.htm) from pro-M racing. It's specifically a blow-through design MAF and my understanding is that it can handle practically anything we can throw at it.

On the 132 K value - is that based on 555cc flow rate? I ask because Nismo calls them 555s but they actually flow 615cc. I downloaded everything from Nistune, so I'll spend some time installing the software and then start the work on the socketing. With hurricane Gustav on the horizon, I may have some delays in working on this, as I have family coming in from East Texas that has a mandatory evacuation in effect.

Anyway, there are still delays on my bringing my car in for the manifolds so I got fed up and went out this morning and bought a Miller MIG welder and all the accessories, and I will start working on this myself. The only thing that was slowing me down with this project is my ability to weld well. This move will force me to sit down and learn it well by doing it. I was surprised at how expensive the 122CF tank was for the argon/co2 mix though. I will start working with this setup for the crossmember seam weld, and brackets, etc. and then will get a tank of tri-mix so I can start work on the stainless steel.

This approach will probably cost as much as getting everything professionaly done, but at the end of the day I will end up with more tools I can use in the future, and the satisfaction of having done the work myself!

Thanks again and I'll let you know as soon as the electronics are ready to go.

Nick.

[SuperHatch]

This approach will probably cost as much as getting everything professionaly done, but at the end of the day I will end up with more tools I can use in the future, and the satisfaction of having done the work myself!

Nick.

Amen Brotha!!

[tmorgan4]

Good decision on picking up a welder. Worst case you can get everything tacked up and assembled the way you want it and bring it somewhere to have them finished if it comes down to it. I forgot that you need to have another tank to weld stainless with a MIG! Are you planning on picking up another bottle or just exchanging the one you've got? Would be nice to have one of each on hand.

Which welder did you get? I think you'll pick it up quickly.

[npez]

Good decision on picking up a welder. Worst case you can get everything tacked up and assembled the way you want it and bring it somewhere to have them finished if it comes down to it. I forgot that you need to have another tank to weld stainless with a MIG! Are you planning on picking up another bottle or just exchanging the one you've got? Would be nice to have one of each on hand.

Which welder did you get? I think you'll pick it up quickly.

Thanks Tyler & Steve. I picked up the Millermatic 140 with autoset. I think it'll serve me pretty well for the fabrication I will need to do and seemed like the simplest to setup and get going. On the tank they offered to do it either way exchange or discount a 2nd tank. I'm leaning towards just buying another 122CF one and calling it a day With my luck in the middle of doing stainless I would then need to do something with mild steel and not have the gas. They told me to steer away from flux core wire unless I want to be cleaning up after the fact (which I don't) or welding outside (which I'm not) so I'm sticking with gas shielding.

Anyway, I didn't buy the stainless wire yet as I'm still trying to decide between 304 and 321 stainless. I know the latter is better against heat and cracking, but I didn't wan't to overkill if the 304 will work well (Corky Bell's book mentions 304 as a good option for turbo manifold construction). Also, I didn't know with the additional chromium content in the 321 if that would make it much harder to weld or not.

Thanks,Nick.

[Carl H]

a welder along with a sawzall is one of the most important purchases you'll ever make...i finally figured out mine and laid down some AWESOME beads.too bad i didnt figure it out before, oh well.As far as tanks go if you plan on doing fabwork alot then having a tank of ar/co2 is a must (atleast 40lb tank), a dedicated tank of ar for al and depending on how much ss you do you can squeek by with the ar tank...but if you're doing alot then definately look into a dedicated tank for that.word of advice tho, dont buy welding supplies from home depot or northern tools...go to a dedicated supply shop for industral purposes prices are ALOT less and they're pros at the game.

[npez]

a welder along with a sawzall is one of the most important purchases you'll ever make...i finally figured out mine and laid down some AWESOME beads.too bad i didnt figure it out before, oh well.As far as tanks go if you plan on doing fabwork alot then having a tank of ar/co2 is a must (atleast 40lb tank), a dedicated tank of ar for al and depending on how much ss you do you can squeek by with the ar tank...but if you're doing alot then definately look into a dedicated tank for that.word of advice tho, dont buy welding supplies from home depot or northern tools...go to a dedicated supply shop for industral purposes prices are ALOT less and they're pros at the game.

Hi Carl,

Thanks for the feedback. I'm planning on a bunch of stainless for the exhaust and possibly some other bits, but most of my stuff will be steel after the exhaust. As far as aluminum, I'll have to wait until I'm done with this batch of things, and then purchase the miller spool gun for welding aluminum. I agree with you on where to buy. I bought my equipment at Conroe Welding Supply and they really know their stuff. They're also miller authorized sales & service so I have one place to go for everything I need with the welder. Their pricing was fantastic the welder was within $40-50 from internet pricing I had seen. But the tank/gas pricing they gave me was less than ebay or the internet in general (but then again they had 1000s of tanks in the back).

I have a sawzall but now I'm looking at a metal cutting chopsaw so I can cut angles etc. They recommended this new saw that's out (it's expensive but may be worth it) which uses a metal carbide blade and cuts the metal like butter - no burrs and minimal heat. I didn't have time to look at it (I had to come back home as I'm helping MRJERRY with his harness) , but will look at it next week at some point to make a decision. I'll let you know my impression once I see it/buy it/use it.

We'll see how my welds look once I get going with it

Thanks,Nick.

[tmorgan4]

Do you remember what the saw was? I've read a few mixed things on the Evolution saws with the carbide blades.

Just in case you haven't already seen it, Burns Stainless has some good tech articles on their website talking about the different grades of stainless.

http://www.burnsstainless.com/....html

[Carl H]

i too am curious about this saw...the fully adjustable 10" blad chopsaw i got at northern tool works very well but the blades dont last terribly long.i had not heard of the carbide blades,any info?

[npez]

Do you remember what the saw was? I've read a few mixed things on the Evolution saws with the carbide blades.

Just in case you haven't already seen it, Burns Stainless has some good tech articles on their website talking about the different grades of stainless.

http://www.burnsstainless.com/....html

I think it was the evolution. I think the price was four hundred and change for the chop saw. I did some research online and man I didn't know blades cost $120 each. I'll need the one that comes with it (mild steel) then the $120 one for stainless. Carl, from what I've read the blades last 800 cuts of 1/8" wall tubing 3-1/2" tube. Not sure how long it lasts cutting through solid material, but I'm mostly interested in tubing.

Tyler have you read any reviews on the chop saw that were negative? Everything I've seen so far has been pretty positive. I must admit though I haven't thoroughly researched it between family things today and trying to unbox the welder.

On the burns stainless that's where I've been looking, as they have some pieces that I can readily use (e.g. Y pipe for the turbo/external wastegate, J-bends etc.) but the price in 321 is pretty expensive. Not sure if anyone has welded 321 or used for manifold purposes and can give their impressions compared to 304.

I'll go take a look at the saw next week and let you guys know.

Thanks,Nick.

[qsiguy]

On the 132 K value - is that based on 555cc flow rate? I ask because Nismo calls them 555s but they actually flow 615cc. I downloaded everything from Nistune, so I'll spend some time installing the software and then start the work on the socketing.

The K value doesn't really reflect any sort of injector size or anything. 198 K being stock lowering it to 132 will be for the 555's. The K value is just a number the ECU uses in it's calculations to determine the pulsewidth of the injectors. Lower K value it will hold the injectors on for a shorter time. Since the larger injectors flow more fuel they need to be on for a shorter time to provide the right amount of fuel. If you don't change the K value it will be rich across the board (except maybe when you are in boost) and may not idle.

[npez]

The K value doesn't really reflect any sort of injector size or anything. 198 K being stock lowering it to 132 will be for the 555's. The K value is just a number the ECU uses in it's calculations to determine the pulsewidth of the injectors. Lower K value it will hold the injectors on for a shorter time. Since the larger injectors flow more fuel they need to be on for a shorter time to provide the right amount of fuel. If you don't change the K value it will be rich across the board (except maybe when you are in boost) and may not idle.

Shane,

Thanks for the information. I need to do some more reading I think. I downloaded Nistune's Nissan ECU Tuning Basics Guide which talks about all this - I had only read the SW user's manual so far.

My in-laws and some other family is still over so I haven't been able to do much on the car.....

Thanks,Nick.

[Stinky]

Dont forget the K value has an effect on the load scales for both the fuel and timing tables. If you make a change to the K value you should adjust your load scales to match.

[qsiguy]

Correct. The tricky think is that Nick is going to be using a dual MAF setup with one dummy. I believe the load (TP) scales are going to be the main thing he might need to tweak for that. Sounds like the Nistune software will do some of these adjustments automatically. To get the car running I'd say setting the K value lower should get him started and idling.

Once you can get some map trace results you'll know where your TP is hitting and then you can tune the fuel and timing maps from there.

[npez]

Correct. The tricky think is that Nick is going to be using a dual MAF setup with one dummy. I believe the load (TP) scales are going to be the main thing he might need to tweak for that. Sounds like the Nistune software will do some of these adjustments automatically. To get the car running I'd say setting the K value lower should get him started and idling.

Once you can get some map trace results you'll know where your TP is hitting and then you can tune the fuel and timing maps from there.

Shane,

I thought I responded regarding the MAS but couldn't locate my own response I'm planning on going with the Pro-Tube 3.5 inch blow-through MAS (http://www.promracing.com/products.htm) in a single MAS configuration (this MAS can take anything we'll throw at it). The reason I was looking at duals was to re-use my TTZ MAS or figure out a way to use my Q45 MAS.

I think for permanence sake, I may just go with the Pro-Tube from the get go so I don't have to re-fab any part of the intake track later. I thought I would clarify this so you had a better understanding of my direction.

Thanks,Nick.

[qsiguy]

Thank you for the update. That changes everything. Looks like a really nice unit. From the info on the site I couldn't tell if it is user adjustable or if they have to do it for you upfront. Did you already buy it or speak with them? I'd like to know the details of how they get you setup. I'd also like to see a wiring diagram for it. Is it the same voltage and output type as the OEM MAF or are there other mods you'll need to do?

[npez]

Thank you for the update. That changes everything. Looks like a really nice unit. From the info on the site I couldn't tell if it is user adjustable or if they have to do it for you upfront. Did you already buy it or speak with them? I'd like to know the details of how they get you setup. I'd also like to see a wiring diagram for it. Is it the same voltage and output type as the OEM MAF or are there other mods you'll need to do?

Shane,

My friend with a supercharged 5.0 cobra has one of their MAFs and has been very pleased with it. I haven't spoken to pro-m yet, but am planning to this week. My understanding from speaking with my friend is that they calibrate the MAF any which way you want to set it up. I just need to better understand the types of things that can be calibrated.

I know that if I give them some front-end parameters such as anticipated CFM, injector size, etc. they can calibrate it based on that, but I don't know yet the specific "back-end" parameters (voltage curves, etc.) that are tweakable, and for that matter, what they need to look like for my application. If you have any information on how the existing Q45 one works internally, that would be very helpful for my discussion with them next week.

I'll let you know what I find out after talking with them as this is pretty high on the list along with the manifold fab. On that I found a place locally in Houston that can supply 321 stainless as well as 304 varieties. I'm still tossing around which route to go.

Thanks,Nick.

[tmorgan4]

Just got done watching the news and realized there's a few of you guys right down there. Looks like a lot of damage...hope everyone is doing fine!

[npez]

Just got done watching the news and realized there's a few of you guys right down there. Looks like a lot of damage...hope everyone is doing fine!

Tyler,

We got nailed pretty hard. The area I'm in is 70-80 miles from the coast and IKE came over as a Category 1 storm. Fortunately I fared out ok, my house is pretty new so the construction can handle a cat1/cat2 storm.

The only bummer is that the area I live in has a lot of trees which many snapped or got uprooted and toppled over. I actually saw some pines that are 18-24 inches in diameter that the trunk twisted and snapped (that's pretty major torque). So all the trees fell on power lines and we haven't had power since the storm. I'm using an inverter and my aircard to look at the internet but that's about it. Not sure how Jerry and the others have fared.

I'm ordering a 20-25KW standby generator this week that'll be able to power the whole house, as I refuse to be in this situation again. At least the weather has been cool by Houston standards - 60's for a low and low 80's for a high.

Anyway, I hope to post some progress after we get power back and get back into the groove of things......

Thanks,Nick.

[Mettler]

Holy crap dude! Good to hear you're ok.

[npez]

Holy crap dude! Good to hear you're ok.

Thanks man! On a positive note UPS/Fedex is delivering so all my stainless tube and mandrel bends arrived today along with my bench grinder and dry-cut hitachi chop saw. Now if I only had power to use any of this

Hopefully the power will come on soon, but in the meantime I've put an order in for an additional natural gas meter on the other side of the house for the generator. I'm hoping to get some answers today on the automatic transfer switch so I can order the thing tomorrow.

Thanks,Nick.

[konatown]

Glad to hear that you made out just fine... Hell, I lost power due to Ike's winds almost a 1,000 miles away. I know most of Cincinnati lost or still doesn't have power. Insane how wide that storm was.

Good luck with the build. I just helped my brother install new exhaust and manifolds using 304 mandrel bent on his Z32TT, looks great and was easy peasy to work with.

[gs14racer]

Yea me too, was wondering for a while lol. Here in florida we are no strangers to hurricanes so i feel your pain, good luck with the back up gen hope all goes well.

[kbflip02]

Tyler,

We got nailed pretty hard. The area I'm in is 70-80 miles from the coast and IKE came over as a Category 1 storm. Fortunately I fared out ok, my house is pretty new so the construction can handle a cat1/cat2 storm.

The only bummer is that the area I live in has a lot of trees which many snapped or got uprooted and toppled over. I actually saw some pines that are 18-24 inches in diameter that the trunk twisted and snapped (that's pretty major torque). So all the trees fell on power lines and we haven't had power since the storm. I'm using an inverter and my aircard to look at the internet but that's about it. Not sure how Jerry and the others have fared.

I'm ordering a 20-25KW standby generator this week that'll be able to power the whole house, as I refuse to be in this situation again. At least the weather has been cool by Houston standards - 60's for a low and low 80's for a high.

Anyway, I hope to post some progress after we get power back and get back into the groove of things......

Thanks,Nick.

real glad to hear you made it alright...our house was pretty much unscathed however my back fence is trashed on all sides, half of my swimming pool is gone, liner and shell and all, and worst part is the roof over my back patio ended up on top of my car...after i cleared the debris i was fortunate to find only scratches and no dings or dents...oh and get this...since we were evacuated from our rigs offshore me and a few of my buddies with chain saws have been going around cutting up trees and what not...weve underbid every tree company weve encountered and between 3 of us have cleare $2000 from saturday to monday....they have yet to tell us when we can go back offshore so now were rebuilding fences...sorry to hear you dont have power yet...my wife was bitching about not having it because the neighbors across the street got their power restored sunday morning and we didnt get it back until monday afternoon...i explained to her that theres still 1.4 million people in houston who dont have power so we are very fortunate...i know im all the way across town but if theres anything i can do to help yall out please let me know...i know gas is scarce but if need be i can find some and make my way up there...best of luck to yall-K

[Mettler]

Hahah legend getting out the chainsaw!

[npez]

I started putting things together finally and got some time to take pictures and post. I still need to add the hoses under the plenum as well as the fuel system, but so far I'm pretty pleased with the results. I'm taking the valve covers to get them stripped and powder coated as the Hipercoat doesn't blend in like I thought. Oh well. Anyway, I should be able to get the majority of things put together by next weekend so I'll post some pics of the progress.

Thanks,Nick.

Pictures of Oilpan ready to go in

Bottom end cleaned up and new OEM oil pickup installed.

Pics of the modified plenum (not bolted on yet until I get everything done underneath) but it still shows the overall effect