Prison Reform

[intermilanrox]

I've seen alot of people complain about prison reform, especially in the Death Penalty thread. So I decided to clean things up a bit, and let people argue prison reforms in this thread instead of scattered throughout various other threads.

Everyone knows that the prison's really need to be changed. These prisoners are living in better conditions than some Americans. They get cable T.V., food, and best of all they don't work.

So here's my idea. Get rid of the cable T.V., and feed them the worst food possible. But most of all, PUT THEM TO WORK. Let this child rapists out and let them clean our streets. Attach them to the light posts on those 90 degree summer days and let them do some manual labor while cleaning up our highways, streets, and communities. Or let them shovel the side walks during the winter.

These murderers and child rapists are getting off way to easy. Get rid of the cable, feed them slop, and put them to work. We are paying to give these criminals things they don't need, why not let them better the community?

[WDRacing]

You can tell you're 15

[intermilanrox]

Why is that?

[WDRacing]

Because you have no idea how the prison system works. You can't just randomly throw out generic rules. There are so many different types of crimes that have jail time as a penalty you'd have to reorganize the entire system to implement something like you suggested. Which would cost Billions just to even attempt. The majority of people in prison are in for non violent crimes. Should the guy that got arrested and jailed for smoking a joint in HIS yard be tied to a light pole? Should he have cable? Should he have awful food? Or are we now building entirely new prisons JUST for the bad ones.

Try visiting a few jails and make an informed opinion before you voice what you THINK you know.

I'm all for reform, but there are ways to go about doing it and your OP is not that way.

[telcoman]

Because you have no idea how the prison system works. You can't just randomly throw out generic rules. There are so many different types of crimes that have jail time as a penalty you'd have to reorganize the entire system to implement something like you suggested. Which would cost Billions just to even attempt. The majority of people in prison are in for non violent crimes. Should the guy that got arrested and jailed for smoking a joint in HIS yard be tied to a light pole? Should he have cable? Should he have awful food? Or are we now building entirely new prisons JUST for the bad ones.

Try visiting a few jails and make an informed opinion before you voice what you THINK you know.

I'm all for reform, but there are ways to go about doing it and your OP is not that way.

Patrick

Here is a start for you

http://www.drugpolicy.org/stat...llerd/

Here is the result of one misguided Republican governor.The war on drugs has been a failure here in the US, Mexico, Columbia, Afghanistan and currently funds the taliban in their war against the US.The people that wind up in prison are all lower level mostly poor people. Our prisons are overcrowded with them while many other dangerous criminals are on the streets

Telcoman

[intermilanrox]

Telcoman:Thanks for that link. It was really interesting. Learned some new stuff there.

I agree sentencing should be shortened. For first time offenders, I say 1 month tops (if non-violent). For second offenders, add another 6 months (once again, if non- violent). And after that a year, for each additional offense there after. This is for possesion. For dealing or DWI, the consequences should be far greater. I also agree on more public education when it comes to drugs as well as more rehab facilities at a cheaper cost. As it stands, rehab is quite expensive and many insurances only cover a certain amount of time there (7 days at most). For those without insurance, it's extremely expensive.

Do I think Drugs should be legalized? NoDo I think offenders should be put in jail? H**L YEAHDo I think sentencing should be shorter? YesDo I think more facilities for education and rehabilitation for drug users should be offered? Yes

WDRacing:Sorry that I wasn't clear on the rules. But as I hinted towards, murderers, rapists, sex offenders, thieves, etc. should be put to work.People who are first time offenders of less serious crimes, such as drug possesion, should not be.However, cable should be removed for ALL, as well as EVERYONE getting fed slop. Why should they waste American tax payers' dollars on wasteful things, like cable and quality food, for people who fail to abide by the law and could possibly be putting others at risk. There's no need. You do the crime, you pay the time. Going to PRISON should not be like going to a hotel.

[telcoman]

Telcoman:Thanks for that link. It was really interesting. Learned some new stuff there.

Here is more

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29613178/

This also appeared on last Sunday's 60 minutes

You may also want to check out the "innocence project"?

http://www.innocenceproject.org/

There are many poor people in prison that shouldn't be there. OJ proved that with plenty of money and good lawyers one can get away with murder.

Get yourself a good education and perhaps law school.?

One person can make a difference.

Telcoman

[dusred]

Dude, if anything prisons need to be changed for the BETTER. You have no idea. Some prisons may have TV, OK food, etc but most of them are just dirty rat holes.

For example the Utah State Pen. has got to be one of the worse in the country! Get a grip!

Damn. I better stop typing.

[audtatious]

Chain gangs......

[480sx]

We just need an Australia.

But seriously. What we need to do is make it so less people go to prison. There will always be rapists, pedophiles, murderers, and violent offenders and those people need and deserve to be locked up.

However, a non violent drug offender(50 percent of our jails are clogged with them)? Locked in jail? Are you retarded? What has he done that has impacted society so much that he deserves to be locked up for his 'crime'?

You keep bringing up cable... 'OMFG CABLE IT COSTS SO MUCH, BANKRUPTING US MAKE IT STOP!' Oh wait, it doesnt at all, and it keeps prisoners at least somewhat busy. Most prisoners are NOT lifers(and not all lifers are bad people, 3rd strike BS, THIS ISNT f***ING BASEBALL) and are really not that bad of people when it all comes down to it. They dont deserve to be locked in a dark hole and made to do slave labor.

I agree with you on one point, as far as them being allowed to work, community service type stuff. Unfortunately for your point, that already exists and is a common practice for prisoners who are non flight risks and on good behavior.

WD said it right.
Modified by 480sx at 4:04 PM 3/11/2009

[wawazat8402]

I think that it may be the non-violent offenders who could benefit most from a work program. Lets not set one up that assigns tasks just because theyre s***ty and use it as punishment. Give the people in jail for robbery and dealing another option for income when they are finally released. Open up programs teaching them cabinetry, carpentry, mechanic work, etc. Use them to perform the maintenance on city transportation, etc. This way they finally get to feel what its like to build something and get paid for it instead of always dodging the law.

I think most of these people grew up in households where they werent exposed to the intrinsic gifts of a hard days labor and an honest dollar earned. Even when Im working my tail off for a little bit of money, it feels good to step back and see what Ive accomplished. I think most of us have that need to have things we are proud of and the prison system is a missed opportunity to share that quality with those who are less fortunate.

[intermilanrox]

Thanks for the info. I definatley will look more into this.

As for law school, it's a good possiblity after I get my poli sci/ economics degree.

[themadscientist]

politics or economics, not sure which is more evil.

[intermilanrox]

politics or economics, not sure which is more evil.

I was originally going to become a mechanical engineer, but I enjoy politics way too much.

[Urabus GodofTraction]

http://www.cnn.com/US/9907/27/tough.sheriff/

Never mind the terrible pun.

[themadscientist]

I am currently pursuing a Political Science / Business and Management degree. That means I basically only come out at night, drain the blood, and the money of the working class and sleep during the day in an escalade filled with the currency of my native land.

[intermilanrox]

I've heard of this elsewhere. Although it may seem in-humane, he still has an 85% approval rating. As this is a democracy, he is doing what the people want.On the other hand, the lawsuits are ridiculous. Run the prison how you want, but to have these people who are being hurt or not getting proper medical care while there, is not right

[Armelius]

Prison is supposed to be about rehabilitation and not punishment.

Soon as you get it out of your mind that you are going to punish the criminals the better.

These people will get out. Either escape or released by doing their time. Some might get out in body bags. But when they leave they should be able to do something good once they get out. If not then it's going to be a cycle of crimes and arrests. A punishment prison only makes the person angry.

[Urabus GodofTraction]

Prison is supposed to be about rehabilitation and punishment.

Fixed.

[480sx]

http://www.cnn.com/US/9907/27/tough.sheriff/

Never mind the terrible pun.

I had a hard time with that.

Anyway, that article predates the 21st century.

[Urabus GodofTraction]

I had a hard time with that.

Anyway, that article predates the 21st century.

So does Leviathan, and it remains relevant...

But yeah the article is "dated" by web standards. I just remember the prison and googled "Arizona prison tents"

[480sx]

So does Leviathan, and it remains relevant...

So your placing a novel of unbelievable proportions with a news article from CNN?

At least compare apples to apples.

[Urabus GodofTraction]

So your placing a novel of unbelievable proportions with a news article from CNN?

At least compare apples to apples.

I transcended beyond the need for mortal fruit.

[S13_love]

But most of all, PUT THEM TO WORK. Let this child rapists out and let them clean our streets.

I see something wrong with this here. Let them out and onto our streets? I think not.

[480sx]

I transcended beyond the need for mortal fruit.

Lol, well played.

[intermilanrox]

Clearly you don't understand what I'm saying. Let them clean the highways, shovel sidewaks, etc., while bein chained up and under surveilance.

[480sx]

They do this already bud. However there are some people that simply need to sit in a f***ing hole for the rest of their life and never escape. That is the nature of the crimes they have committed. The same people who have nothing to lose, and at any moment can become a danger to whoever is running that chain gang. You have to think about it like this.

Is the risk to officers/wardens + their time(pay) lesser than or equal to to the 6 bucks an hour we pay people who arnt pedophiles/murderers/rapists to pick up trash on the freeways? If its even equal, the idea is a fail. More than likely, its greater. Think about it economically. Are we really saving money? Is it really such a smart idea?

[intermilanrox]

I understand that this is already being done. But this should be done EVERYWHERE. Economically, wouldn't it be cheaper to pay like 5 guards to watch 30 prisoners or so clean the highways, instead of paying for 30 people to clean it, even it is only $6 an hour. It's not just about money, it's about the principles here. They should get out there and work their asses off. They shouldn't get out that easy and just sit around all day, doing nothing.

[480sx]

I understand that this is already being done. But this should be done EVERYWHERE.

It is done most everywhere as long as your not in a super max or a federal prison. There are even exemptions there.

Economically, wouldn't it be cheaper to pay like 5 guards to watch 30 prisoners or so clean the highways, instead of paying for 30 people to clean it, even it is only $6 an hour.

K. Glad you see that.

It's not just about money, it's about the principles here. They should get out there and work their asses off. They shouldn't get out that easy and just sit around all day, doing nothing.

Principles.. Ok. For a second, im going to ignore the serious offenders who should only see the light of day behind razor wire and focus on the rest of the 'criminals', the ones where the idea is realistic.

First of all, prison probably sucks. Its not some comfy, sitting around all day doing nothing affair. Its a place for mainly punishment, you spend most of your day sitting in a small, barred room, with at least one other person who shares a s***ter with you. Thats not really my idea of getting it that easy.

In reality, most people who are in prison would welcome your plan. The ones who chose to opt out should be able to do so under their own will, because, most people who commit crimes are still people. So because of this, what right do we have to force them into working? Little cruel and unusual. I think this has been figured out already by the Supreme Court in a few dif cases.

Now if they wanted to spend 8 hours a day working, doing SOMETHING productive, more power to them and that would look great when they go to get out and should have incentives. Get a GED or HS education in prison? FTW. Learn a trade? FTW. If they stick with it, complete it, time off your sentence. Its a move to take an offender and teach him to fit in and hopefully contribute to our society. Beats the hell out of forcing someone to do slave labor on the highways, then sending him out of jail pissed off at the world and our country.

The thing is, just because someone gets locked up, AGAIN, doesnt mean they are a bad person that doesnt deserve a basic level of human decency, for the most part.

Anyway this is just a random discussion, this stuff already exists.
Modified by 480sx at 6:42 AM 3/13/2009

[S13_love]

Economically, wouldn't it be cheaper to pay like 5 guards to watch 30 prisoners or so clean the highways, instead of paying for 30 people to clean it, even it is only $6 an hour.

Do you think murderers/rapists/ f***-ups really deserve a job? I say let the people who need a job to make a living do this. Let the prisoners rot in jail.