Prison Reform

[marlin29311]

Do you think murderers/rapists/ f***-ups really deserve a job? I say let the people who need a job to make a living do this. Let the prisoners rot in jail.

The jobs that they would be doing are jobs that no one wants to take anyway...

[wawazat8402]

Have them building low-income housing and halfway houses. There are always jobs available for a hardworker in the construction field. I still think it would help a lot of the short-time inmates be more productive upon their release instead of falling into the same slump.

In regards to the comfort of prison, if someone spends a month out and starts looking for a way to get back in, its too comfortable IMO.

[Armelius]

Fixed.

Punishment is a beating. Rehabilitation is being sent to the corner of a room to think about what you have done wrong. Doesn't work but it takes more time. A beating is effective if used sparingly. But to have people punishing people for long lengths of time is counter productive. To have people help the prisoner see the error in their ways over time would be better.

Either cut off some hands or rehabilitate.

[nissangirl74]

My opinions aren't usually well received in this forum, but i wanted to give my two cents worth on this issue, regardless of the backlash and criticism.

Although I have never been incarcerated, I know people have been to both jail and prison. Trust me, taking away their cable and food is not the answer. The number one fear of prison guards (and many of the inmates) is a riot. If you are guarding a General Public population, what type of atmosphere do you think would be created if the prisoners were hungry and bored? Hostile would not EVEN begin to cover it. Things are bad enough as it is, no need to go pour gasoline on a raging fire.

I am all for prisoners having to be responsbile for some of their own upkeep, but I don't have a problem with my tax dollars going to support the prison system. I don't want to have to walk the streets with dangerous criminals, just because there is nowhere to put them. As far as rapists and murders doing community service, well, I just think that is a crazy idea. Do you really think it would have been wise to chain Ted Bundy to a light pole and tell him to pick the weeds out of the cracks in the sidewalk? I think not.

I agree that there is over-crowding in the system and there are people in jail that really don't need to be there. However, until there is a major overhaul of the entire system (including the judiciary sytem), it is just a fact of life in our society.

Maybe a better idea would be to do more to keep people out of jail, instead of worrying about what to do with them once they get there. (An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.) There have been numerous interviews conducted with violent, and non-violent, criminals. Some have been very candid about the paths that led them to where they are now. Would it not be beneficial to take these people seriously and start examining these factors and see what we could do about preventing others from following that some path?

That too might be a hopeless cause but it would seem to hold more promise than what we are doing now. Just my opinion.

[intermilanrox]

I understand what everybody is trying to say. The point of this forum wasn't to rip me apart for my idea. It was to let people openly discuss what they felt was the best way to fix the prison system.

Now for your "prevention" idea. Although it may seem like an easy way to stop SOME of the probelm, most of the time it just doesnt work. Have you ever tried talking to some high school kids, it's like talking to a brick wall. None of them care. We have people come in to talk about alcohol abuse and drug abuse. These people had horrid stories of what happened to them, some stole from loved ones, others killed loved ones in accidents. Most people didn't even listen, they just messed around. I doubt a single kid stopped drinking or smoking from that assembly, not one. Teens do what they want to do, regardless of what people tell thim. Now I agree that more prevention does have to be put in, starting in 5th or 6th grade, but that is not going to fix the problem. Alot of the problem lies in the prison system and the judicial system.

[nissangirl74]

I understand what everybody is trying to say. The point of this forum wasn't to rip me apart for my idea. It was to let people openly discuss what they felt was the best way to fix the prison system.

For what it's worth, i wasn't trying to rip you apart. Just stating my opinion too.

[audtatious]

May I ask when bored became an excuse for not following rules?

[nissangirl74]

May I ask when bored became an excuse for not following rules?

It's never an excuse; however in constant high-stress situations like this, you have to choose your battles carefully. if you have an element that will help keep the peace, i think you should use it.

[480sx]

The politics forum needs more of you.

[EmKayThree]

Drug offenders are put in prison because when an individual is associated with drugs they also tend to be associated with other dangerous illegal activity.

Not saying there isn't some people that are trying to make a quick buck by slanging it and that's it. When a person starts to deal with drugs and such, their path tends to go more with a downward spiral. They drop out of school, find and feel that a gang family is the only thing they are a part of. Which ultimately involves dangerous activities.

And those non-violent drug offenders that are in prison, they should be kept in prison. People that are put in prison, are put there for a reason, regardless of what crime was committed. Being put in prison means they have done some serious s***, not those wussy crimes.

Prison - time is more than a year (crazy stuff, such as using weapons, illegal drug distribution in large scalar quantities).Jail - less than a year (stealing a car, attempt to sell an illegal drug in a small amount)

Those non-violent drug offenders that are caught smoking a joint, or a little bag of weed in your car, you are not going to go to prison for that. Maybe jail, but even then, your going to serve what, 1 month... if even that. Stealing some stuff from the liquor store, they can't be put in prison for that unless they like pull a gun or have a gang of other offenses, which in that case they are already a troubled individual and in need of some rehabilitation.

So keep them in prison, they need to be rehabilitated.

Yes people change, and there are prisoners that really are trying to better themselves and that's good. But there are F***-ups that ruin it for everyone such as Non-violent criminals that say they are better, released and on parole, and fall right back into that same situation they were in.

[AZhitman]

It's never an excuse; however in constant high-stress situations like this, you have to choose your battles carefully. if you have an element that will help keep the peace, i think you should use it.

Read "Verbal Judo" by Dr. Thompson.

And +1 on "choosing your battles" carefully.

When I carried a caseload of recidivist mentally ill sex offenders (kinda looked like the population of the "Learned'd" thread), there were certain things I'd overlook, and certain allowances I'd make - Simply for the preservation of peace and for the greater good.

"Rules" become quite flexible in extreme situations, and rigid enforcement is a recipe for failure.

[HashiriyaS14]

Part of the trick to being able to make prisons less livable and more effective is to STOP INCARCERATING PEOPLE FOR SILLY NONSENSE.

Hit people where it hurts, their finances. If minor crimes were punishable by, say, garnished wages for two decades rather than thirty days of prison time, methinks people would think twice.

And we should have fewer "crimes" to begin with. Some acts, like heroin addiction, carry their own punishment in life, no need to imprison people for it.

If we can stop throwing people in prison who don't belong in prison, we can start making prison more effective for the people who DO belong in there without having to change all the rules about prisons.

As for the violent offenders and fraud perpetrators that are left....I say let them rot in privatized hellholes....preferably offshore.

[Armelius]

I read something where young children are being arrested at a higher rate than years past. Most of the crimes are happening at school. A crime like bullying (I guess) can put someone in the criminal system. While carrying a knife to school can land expulsion and probation. Fighting can send school age children to juvenile camps.

[nzmoman]

Well I didn't read every word of every post so this may have been said, but there needs to be a distinction made for some people between prison and jail.

The differences being term of the inmate, and where the money comes from. Prisons are typically (not always) run by the state for offenders with more than 1 year sentences. Jails are for people who have less than one year sentences or who have gotten special pleas while awaiting trial for a more serious offense. The money for them does not all come from the same place, the budgets are different, and the rules can be much different as well.

When I carried a caseload of recidivist mentally ill sex offenders (kinda looked like the population of the "Learned'd" thread), there were certain things I'd overlook, and certain allowances I'd make - Simply for the preservation of peace and for the greater good.

"Rules" become quite flexible in extreme situations, and rigid enforcement is a recipe for failure.

The solution state hered is actually the problem. My Crim J research degree coming out so I apologize. Just to keep it simple, Jeremy Bentham (criminologists) stated that the three things that all justice systems must have to work are a swiftness to punishment, a severity of punishment, and a certain-ness of punishment. Now the goal was that the community (not some bureaucrat) would be responsible for determining whether or not this criminal was guilty of such crimes and what the punishment would be. Fast forward through time and you see the justice system getting infiltrated with the political system and people who do not understand the minds of criminals (all levels of criminals) are placed in charge of making policy to dictate what is best for them and how the state should handle them. Enter liberal activists and emotion based theory and policy and you eventually get a system like ours and most European countries.

The idea of rehabilitation was not a large concept in the early start of the american justice system because community based justice typically meant a person either left the community and had to assimilate elsewhere, or they were almost completely socially banished, which in most nations historically has been worse than death.

In the modern day Bentham would say the reason why so many people commit crimes is because punishment is missing one of the three things listed above. When one of these concepts are thrown out then it is processed mentally as if there is NO punishment. So I would argue that the "flexibility" principle in our legal system is on of the many the problems. If all speeders got tickets and had to pay them it would be different. If all violent rapists were chemically or physically castrated, that is more of a reason to not do it. If all people were audited for taxes, or if all politicians were held accountable and actual saw some sort of punishment against them for their actions this would be a much different country.

Unfortunatley that is the part that is the hardest for our justice system. We have become so emotional that we don't realize that the hurt or the hardship caused by punishment for a crime is in most cases a good thing for people. I don't know the case loads mentioned above, but the argument could be that those types of people (typically addicted to the criminal rush or sexual rush, and I dont mean the 17 year old who slept with 15 year old girlfriend) need structure. They need to feel the consequence and the wait of everyone of those rules to understand the severity of their actions.

Now when the rules are too harsh, we are looking at a problem with the system itself, but in order to take actual note to its need for reform, we have to first abide by the rule and get the evidence to prove that such a rule should not be in place.

But offenders MUST know that their is punishment for crime and they should never have it in their head that, "If I get a Johnny Cochran, or a great attorney or if I plead insanity, I can get off"

But there are so many things wrong with our justice system, that by the time I was a senior

Hit people where it hurts, their finances. If minor crimes were punishable by, say, garnished wages for two decades rather than thirty days of prison time, methinks people would think twice.

nice concept, but socially speaking the people with lesser money are more likely to end up in prison or jail. Garnishing their wages, if they even have a good job, would only contribute to their chances of becoming repeat offenders. Income, environment (type of community), and age rank high on the demographics for violent offenders. These people are typically committing financial crimes already and because our social programs are also crap, we can easily leave them with nothing to go back to but crime as a way of survival. Like the thief who steals to eat or feed his family...who's fault is that because contrary to popular belief he can't always, just get a job.