Priming oil pump

[slipnfall]

Hi, Installed a new front cover and oil pump today(came preassemble) and am wondering how to go about priming the pump. I totally forgot about doing it before I put the cover on. Is there any way to do it w/the cover on? I'v been googling the topic and I'v read that I can inject oil into the passages, then turn the crank backwards to suck oil from top-down.(??). Also read that you can pack the pump w/petroleum jelly, but I would rather not remove the cover if I don't have to. This is a TopLine OEM pump BTW. Do they use any type of grease when they assemble the pump, such that I wouldn't have to worry about it?

If it comes down to it, I'll pull the cover, I don't want to risk blowing this rebuild. I know the crank/bearings have assembly lube on them, but I didn't know if the KA pump can get sufficient suction w/out being primed.

Thanks folks,-Jamie

[eddiec]

i pulled my front cover several months ago to replace it so i guess my situation is similar to yours. after sealing everything up and pouring the oil in, i made extra effort to make sure the last qt of oil stayed in the head. fired it right up no problems. however this was a previously running motor before not a rebuilt zero mileage powerhouse.

[slipnfall]

Was it just the cover, or did you replace the oil pump? Wasn't clear.

after sealing everything up and pouring the oil in, i made extra effort to make sure the last qt of oil stayed in the head.

How did you do this? Just pour it in immediately prior to starting?

however this was a previously running motor before not a rebuilt zero mileage powerhouse.

Haha, this is only a stock rebuild... wish I had some goodies on the inside :-/

Thx Eddie-Jamie

[eddiec]

i swapped the front cover/pump from another motor and used the oil pump that was in it.

i used a funel with a tube on the end. pushed tube to side under cover.

[slipnfall]

Ah I see. I'v read a couple posts about people priming SR motors when they get them fresh off the truck/from a warehouse. Sitting for so long all the oil tends to drain into the pan: so apparently you remove the spark plugs & cut the fuel pump, then crank it a couple times. The SR folks look for oil being squirted across the cams thru the filler hole, but that won't work on the KA.... hmmm.... might just have to break down and buy a pressure gauge...

Thx,-Slip

[pr240sx]

do the same, remove plugs and fuel fuse, put an oil gauge and start cranckingYou must see some pressure building up, if not, you need to pack the pump on jelly before.Also, you can "prime" the engine with the valve cover off. Just be sure to clean everything well afterwards

[slipnfall]

Yep this is what I'm gonna do. It's still going to be a week or two untill I am ready to drop in the KA, but I will keep you all posted. I just bought a cheapie mechanical oil pressure gauge/hose off ebay for $17.

-Jamie

[Chezedik]

But I have the same question, just rebuilt my KA, want to know if it will self prime?

[slipnfall]

Wish I had a response for you... I'm finally getting time to install it this Saturday. I'll let you know how it goes: I have a feeling it will be fine, but I'm glad that I have an oil pressure gauge to be sure. I'll let you know how it goes.

-Jamie

[pr240sx]

Well, dunno if the pump will self prime. but better safe than sorry, pack the pump will petro jelly (as per FSM), remove sparks plugs and fuel pump fuse, turn the engine until oil pressure is present.Do NOT crank for more than 15 seconds unless you like replacing starters

[eddiec]

if the starter seizes up dont give up. they seize up due to heat, so once it cools they usually break free with a freindly blow from a big f#$%in hammer.

[Chezedik]

I also have a huge compression leak so I will just take the top end apart, mill the head .020", and pack the pump with jelly, assuming it mics out. Otherwise, I will be getting a high volume unit.

[slipnfall]

I * finally* got some help this weekend and got my DE put back in. As a side note, lining up the motor mounts took about as much time as lining up the input spline...until we noticed the motor mounts are adjustable...

Anyways, it turns out that you can get the pump to 'self-prime' on the KA. Some things I did that may have helped were to fill the oil filter up before installing it, and pouring the 4qts of oil in w/the valve cover off. It actually sat overnight due to some electrical problems, so that may not have made a differrence. Plugs out/fuel pump disabled.

I cranked ~15seconds first. No pressure. Cranked again for 15secs, nothing. I was starting to worry. Checked under the car, no oil. Cranked again and then the pressure finally rose. Rose to roughly 55psi and bobbled around there, between 54-56. This was w/a fresh battery, cold morning, something like 12.5V on the battery. YMMV.

Thanks for the help everyone, now the fun begins.

-Slip

[Chezedik]

Any other info is certainly welome.

[Chezedik]

Can the motor be primed with the head off?, like through one of the oil passages.

[slipnfall]

No the pump drive can not be reached from any place other than the crank itself. The only way to actually prime the pump itself is to prime while on the lower cover, with the cover off... I had no problems getting pressure with the engine assembled. I'll repeat what I did: fill the oil filter before installing, and put three quarts in through the valve cover(off). Just pour it overtop the entire length of the cams. Keep one quart and pour it down the front cover, near the chain. Replace valve cover and turn it over w/the fuel pump fuse and spark plugs removed. Viola, oil pressure.

[slipnfall]

Oh and if you are paranoid, pack the pump as ^^^ suggestion, this is certainly a valid/well known method.

[Chezedik]

Yes, but I have the dual cam, which requires you to take off the oil pan to take off the pick-up, so the front cover can come off. Then I could disassemble the pump to pack it. Or since I have the head off, and the crank is still timed, I could add oil thought the oil ports on the block with a syphon pump, and then put the head back on, and hopefully this will have primed the pump. Since the pump has been cavaeted (to say the least) for a while now. My pump has a lot of miles, do you think good things since you got yours from a salvage yard, how many miles do you have on your pump/housing?

[slipnfall]

Well pouring it down through the valve cover is going to do the same thing as through the galleys in the block. Plus by the time you get the head back on it'll all be settled to the bottom. The point of pouring it in the top is to keep the top-most parts lubed untill the oil pump gets full pressure(to push it up top-the crank/etc will be able to get some from the pan).

My oil pump was OEM new, so I can't offer advise on a used one. I wouldn't bother pulling the pump if it's already installed. Just use an oil pressure gauge and don't 'start' it untill you can get oil pressure by cranking it.

[Chezedik]

So do you think I just pull a few relays and crank until I have pressure?

[slipnfall]

Pull the fuel pump fuse and your spark plugs only.

EOT

[Chezedik]

So you think the pump will self prime, and just crank the crap out of it, oil the cams and lifter shims, get the top end and chain wet. So, I bought a few gauges for the cabin, just to monitor. You know, coolant temp, oil press, and stoich. So, will that oil press gauge be sufficient, or do I need a pressure tester style gauge? Because, I would prefer not to have to buy a new one, but I will if need be. Let me know what you think. Oh, and if it makes any difference, the interior oil press gauge is electronic, now mechanical, but I don't think that would matter, do you?

[slipnfall]

Mechanical is more reliable IMO, but an electric gauge is just as accurate. It will be fine, just make sure you wire it up right.

You should try to keep your oil pressure sending unit if possible. Often a glaring red oil lamp in the cluster is more apparent than a gauge on the pillar. It's 1/8" BPT, not NPT BTW.

[Chezedik]

No kidding, I bought metric fittings for it, but you think the standard fittings will work, son of a gun. And how do you suggest I keep them both, just t it off? can that be done?

[Chezedik]

btw, just checked out your story on car domain, it seems VERY familiar.

[slipnfall]

If you never intend to remove any of the fittings, you can get away with force threading a BPT and NPT together. They will mate and seal, but you will cross the threads. Once you remove them and try to re-install, it will most likely leak. Big FAT note: I don't recommend it, b/c it'll break off little shards of brass that may end up 'in circulation'. If you do decide to do this, use teflon thread tape also.

check out http://www.mcmaster.com, it's an industrial supply store that has a huge selections of pipe fittings, adaptors, etc. They do have a minimum order tho($25 IIRC).

You might be able to find them at the local auto parts or tractor supply store.

[slipnfall]

And yes all you need is an BPT T-adaptor. One male, and two female. Double check your oil pressure sending unit(for the gauge). Often gauges intended for multi-purpose(ie domestic and import cars) are NPT.

And just ignore the fact that I told you you can get away with a force thread. No guarentee it won't leak. Just get the right adaptors and be done w/it. If you don't want to mess around with a T-adaptor, just plug the new gauge sending unit in where the old one was...(as long as it's a BPT male of course)

[Chezedik]

I have heard of NPT but never BPT. please explain.

[slipnfall]

NPT=National Pipe Thread, pretty standard across US.BPT=British Pipe Thread

Defines how many thread there are in one unit length.

[Chezedik]

I work at a parts store and have never seen BPT, can I assume it is standard metric thread or is it important that I find somewhere that I track down BPT? If it is then I will probably retap it. Let me know if you know the TP (Thread Pitch).