Power Limitations on Internally Stock VH45DE

YouTube · Post by **MeanGreenS13** » Fri Mar 12, 2010 2:18 am

if this has been covered before, someone please link me, I tried typing in a few different things such as VH45DE Power, VH limitations etc but came up with nothing.

Buddy of mine got my Nissan gears turning again a little bit and I got curious how much a VH45DE could take on the stock internals, before the risk of venting the block is a thought.

Phil

Post by **Guishnu** » Fri Mar 12, 2010 4:15 am

Hi Phil,In my opinion i think the "stock" rotating assembly is good for some serious horsepower when running FI however the compression ratio of the pistons are going to be fairly prohibative when turbo or supercharging.

From what i have read on here (and seen with my own eyes) Oil control is a serious problem with these engines when you run them at high RPM for long durations.

I would be more than happy to use the stock rods (with arp fastners) up to 700hp (155hp per ltr) The crank will be good for well over 1000hp (i believe this has been proven?)

In the head, the valve springs are soft as cheese so they need to be upgraded. But apart from that, it's a strong old lump once you get the oil control sorted.

YouTube · Post by **MeanGreenS13** » Fri Mar 12, 2010 6:50 am

what can be done about oil control?

my idea was an S14 VH45 with a T70 but I want to make a point to pass emission testing in the state of MA with it.

I was unsure of factory CR (what is it anyway?) on the VH this morning when I posted this as it was kind of a spur of the moment post after I did a couple quick searches. If i can find the money to go through with this idea, I may just go ahead and do a forged bottom end and lower the compression ratio if that will indeed pose a problem. I have seen 9.5:1 engines run with a turbo very reliably and safely on the domestic side making serious power with a good amount of boost, on 93 and proper tuning.

Thanks!

Phil

Post by **Q45tech** » Fri Mar 12, 2010 7:39 am

1990 Federal law prohibits installing a larger displacement engine than that which came in the [use on street] car new. Grams per mile of emissions increase.

Post by **kingkilburn** » Fri Mar 12, 2010 9:13 am

Unless the engine is from the same manufacturer and year or newer.

Post by **Q45tech** » Fri Mar 12, 2010 12:27 pm

It still cannot produce more C02 emissions [displacement] at idle or cruise.

Just because some States don't enforce the full Federal law doesn't mean you are in compliance.

YouTube · Post by **MeanGreenS13** » Fri Mar 12, 2010 12:55 pm

I said I would pass, never said it would still be legal.

In the state of Massachusetts, any car 1995 and older is exempt from SMOG testing. In other words, no sniffer testing, I will however be running DOT compliant Cat as well as DOT Mufflers so that it will be within regulations for sound. Also, once again IF this does come to fruition, it will have a standalone of some sort on it (is Power FC available? I'll check that out here shortly) to run a slightly leaner tune so not to be "smelly" pulling into the inspection station, as well as a "compliance pipe" as my buddy Kevin calls it, for the waste gate which will be removable and re-route the exhaust from the gate, into the car's exhaust for inspection day, and then when it's done and has passed emissions, replace it with a screamer pipe and cap off the entry hole into the exhaust with a 2 bolt waste gate flange block off.

I have IDEAS out the a** for this thing, it's all going to hinge on getting moved up there and finding a GOOD job that will allow me to put this together.

I swore when I bought the Cobra, that I would not do another Nissan, but I cannot deny my love for the S Chassis and I must give it a go again.

I appreciate your help, I'm going to look into some things, my target power goal realistically would be about 550wheel. which really shouldn't be that hard.

Post by **S14-NEO** » Fri Mar 12, 2010 3:18 pm

OH LORDY...I JUST DONT HAVE THE WORDS....LOL

YouTube · Post by **MeanGreenS13** » Fri Mar 12, 2010 4:02 pm

f*** OFF MARK! f*** OFF! ITS YOUR FAULT YOU PRICK!

besides... its talk, talk is cheap... the car is expensive.. till i have the money... its all talk.

Post by **S14-NEO** » Fri Mar 12, 2010 5:34 pm

Post by **hannibal** » Fri Mar 12, 2010 8:02 pm

I'm quite sure 550whp is attainable on a stock motor with good tuning.

A VH has done 446whp with a big Garrett (67mm??) at 6psi. Search Jeff Taylor (username).

YouTube · Post by **MeanGreenS13** » Sat Mar 13, 2010 4:05 am

found the stock CR is 10.2:1 per wiki, should still be able to throw some boost at it with correct tuning, which really is what it all comes down to.

Post by **Bart** » Sat Mar 13, 2010 10:03 pm

Q45tech wrote:It still cannot produce more C02 emissions [displacement] at idle or cruise.

Just because some States don't enforce the full Federal law doesn't mean you are in compliance.

Jeezus, the government is screwin you for Co2.When will people realise Co2 isnt the enemy, although its the law. What ever you do dont feel bad for increasing Co2, the gov is full of it.

YouTube · Post by **MeanGreenS13** » Sun Mar 14, 2010 9:52 am

so it seems no one has been able to make a Power FC work with a VH45DE... what else is out there for a user friendly standalone? I'll keep looking around but I'd appreciate peoples input.

Post by **Chrispy300** » Sun Mar 14, 2010 10:23 am

MeanGreenS13 wrote:so it seems no one has been able to make a Power FC work with a VH45DE... what else is out there for a user friendly standalone? I'll keep looking around but I'd appreciate peoples input.

Why stuff around with a standalone, just get Nistune.

YouTube · Post by **MeanGreenS13** » Sun Mar 14, 2010 10:46 am

I have owned a nistune unit and personally I feel that it is a complete piece of JUNK. no shops know how to tune it, it is NOT user friendly and there is no handheld device available for it.

I am looking for something like a power fc, id really like to use a real power fc if there was a way to modify one to work, but seems there is not.

Post by **Guishnu** » Mon Mar 15, 2010 2:22 am

If you think Nistune is junk then i sugest you should sit down and think very hard about what your tuning requirements are. It's possibly one of the easiest, cheapest and fastest ways of tuning a qualifying engine.

Post by **gs14racer** » Mon Mar 15, 2010 2:33 am

Nistune is great, i use it on my supeprcharged vh45, making 437whp @ 6psi, i dont know if shops tune it or not because i did it my self.

As for the motor, if you take most nissans they typically (on average) pop on stock motors around 100 hp per cylinder, i would think keeping it safe around 80hp per cylnder would yield around 650hp, and 550 whp realiably.

On my setup i just ticked over 5k miles of pure abuse on a 100k mile motor and still have perfect compression and the motor runs like a swiss watch.

When i upgrade my fuel system ill probably take it up to the max the supercharger will flow which iirc correctly is 16 psi it should get me close to 650whp i would imagine, maybe more. And if i threw in the cams i have for it, it would probably pick up another 80-100 whp on top of that.

YouTube · Post by **MeanGreenS13** » Mon Mar 15, 2010 5:03 am

I understand that some people have had success with nistune. I however had nothing but problems, headaches and nightmares, and because of that, I will not use it again.

I want something with a hand held tuner
Modified by MeanGreenS13 at 11:23 AM 3/15/2010

Post by **Chrispy300** » Mon Mar 15, 2010 12:05 pm

MeanGreenS13 wrote:I understand that some people have had success with nistune. I however had nothing but problems, headaches and nightmares, and because of that, I will not use it again.

I want something with a hand held tuner

Modified by MeanGreenS13 at 11:23 AM 3/15/2010

Nistune is more of alternative to editing HEX and burning your own ROMS rather than a standalone. If a shop can't tune it, then they mustn't want to branch out into new things at all. I haven't had any dramas with it, found it quite easy to work with really. Not as nice as a Haltech, but a quarter of the price, can do sequential injection and ignition (which very few standalones can do on a V8) and it looks completely standard which is important to some of us where the cops don't like us fiddling...

And why do you want something with a hand controller? All the hand controllers I've used have been crap at best. Just get a little laptop or a car PC.

I very much doubt you will be able to get a V8 to work with a Power FC. You may be able to modify a 4 cyl one to work with the VH, but will be batch fire and wasted spark. Worse than standard... I don't understand the appeal of the Power FC's, most of the Skyline guys over here are tending away from them and are going Nistune or Vipec for the really hard core stuff. The support for Nistune is a lot stronger here, though, being Aussie made and all.

I don't think there is anything that a normal Power FC can do that Nistune can't on a skyline (not talking about the d-jetro PFC's)

YouTube · Post by **MeanGreenS13** » Mon Mar 15, 2010 12:23 pm

well I understand all that with an FC, a small ACER netbook of some sort, just a 9" screen or 10" screen would be fine. My biggest thing with a handheld is just to make it easier.

I have been in contact with the MA DMV.

they told me that the mufflers I MUST use if aftermarket are flowmaster 70 series and that any Magnaflow 49 state legal OEM Replacment catalytic converters are okay.

As for a standalone, i spent most of my day on my cell phone surfing around, I know that a power FC will not work. So unless I go SDS, then a handheld is out of the question.

I do have an interest Haltech Sport 2000 EMS as well as the FAST XFI EMS and possibly even AEM EMS.

do any VH guys have experience with the 3 listed EMS units?

thanks!

Post by **carfrk666** » Mon Mar 15, 2010 12:28 pm

i was talking with a guy from AEM and they have a stand alone system that will work with the VH, he said that it will even do the VVTC and up to 12 peak hold injector drivers, you would need to live tune it with a laptop, still kinda hand held but its a really nice system. i got to play around with it a bit. if you know what your doing when tuning and can handle tuning lots of little bits and bobs and different graphs and overlaying each with data loging then its a great system, not sure on price however. i havent used nistune but i was going to go with it for my project because i didnt want to deal with stand alone because of how universal and how much detailed tuning you cant do with it untill i played with this. the system is there series 2 EMS. you can get power out of any tuning system you go with, just as long as you can use it correctly

YouTube · Post by **MeanGreenS13** » Mon Mar 15, 2010 12:34 pm

AEM EMS is about the most widely used high profile EMS out there that i have seen. Definitely a lot of shops that can tune it WELL. it is definitely a serious option.

Post by **Nealoc187** » Mon Mar 15, 2010 2:47 pm

I see no real reason why someone who really knows what they're doing couldn't get 700whp out of a completely internally stock VH.

If you don't keep detonation in check I'd think ring lands and HG would be the first components to fail.

Your goal of 550whp will be a piece of cake if you know what you're doing.
Modified by Nealoc187 at 9:37 PM 3/15/2010

YouTube · Post by **MeanGreenS13** » Tue Mar 16, 2010 12:18 am

glad to hear all of this.

now who want's to fund my project? damn this economy... cannot wait to get up north and find some real work!

any VH guys have comments on AEM EMS or Haltech Sport 2000? I'm sure none of the nissan crowd has ever used FAST XFI Ems because its mostly embraced in the domestic v8 world.

Post by **holeset** » Tue Mar 16, 2010 10:19 am

http://www.linkecu.com/

we run a Link G4 on our vh45 turbo,computer was only 1200NZD and tuning was really easy,also got the variable valve crap to work,these are very user friendly,uses all the stock sensors and coil packs,as for power we managed to get 440+KW on 14psi before bearing failure,almost finished modifying the sump to combat this.

Post by **Turbo.tom** » Tue Mar 16, 2010 10:36 am

What R32 have you, RWD or AWD ? Give it pics from your projekt ? I need inputs

Post by **holeset** » Tue Mar 16, 2010 3:59 pm

http://s476.photobucket.com/home/dew33 its rwd

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txMr53vntyM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Uoa7dqf9_I

zerothread?id=400558

just aquired a cat turbo off a C15 to mount,be all go very soon

Post by **XJared** » Wed Mar 17, 2010 3:15 pm

No reason to run the AEM universal box, it's more expensive and requires a special harness. If I were doing a VH with AEM, I would run a Z32 box and just set it up from there. Likely the connector is the same or similar, plus it's already setup to run the Nissan style CAS and idle motor.

YouTube · Post by **MeanGreenS13** » Thu Mar 18, 2010 4:51 am

XJared, how sure are you that a Z box would work and plug right in? has anyone had any experience with this? I'm just afraid that if plugged directly in, and a power and ground are swapped or something, it could fry my brand new $1500 box.

My biggest reason for an AEM would be running wideband... but then, there goes another question I have. Does anyone know if AEM has the ability to monitor 2 individual widebands?

Power Limitations on Internally Stock VH45DE

Power Limitations on Internally Stock VH45DE

Re: Power Limitations on Internally Stock VH45DE (MeanGreenS13)

Re: Power Limitations on Internally Stock VH45DE (Guishnu)

Re: Power Limitations on Internally Stock VH45DE (MeanGreenS13)

Re: (kingkilburn)

Re: (Q45tech)

Re: (MeanGreenS13)

Re: (S14-NEO)

Re: (MeanGreenS13)

Re: (S14-NEO)

Re: (hannibal)

Re: (Q45tech)

Re: (Bart)

Re: (MeanGreenS13)

Re: (Chrispy300)

Re: (MeanGreenS13)

Re: (MeanGreenS13)

Re: (gs14racer)

Re: (MeanGreenS13)

Re: (Chrispy300)

Re: (Chrispy300)

Re: (carfrk666)

Re: (MeanGreenS13)

Re: (Nealoc187)

Re: (MeanGreenS13)

Re: (holeset)

Re: (Turbo.tom)

Re: (XJared)

Nissan Forums

Infiniti Forums

Datsun Forums

Technical Forums

Classifieds / Marketplace

Nissan Motorsports

General Forums