Possible VG30DE ITBs

[DCaff300ZX]

Heh heh...I'd give you a HELL of a deal on a NA if it would be coming back to me with ITB's...

[NolimitZ32]

Ace, thats actually funny cause I'll be in OC in Oct for a wedding, if I got the money by then, who knows maybe I'll be driving home in a 2+2

DCaff, Its actually very hard to beat the kind of prices that we get here in Houston on NAs, you can find a good condition one for under 3k.

[Ace2cool]

Ace, thats actually funny cause I'll be in OC in Oct for a wedding, if I got the money by then, who knows maybe I'll be driving home in a 2+2

Word, just let me know brother.

[DCaff300ZX]

NA's do go a bit higher here for a good one, but there are a few TT's decently priced or well worth their extra $.
And I was thinking way less than 3K tho, like I give it to you to play with and some day later it comes back to me with ITB's!

[fyneyoungstunna]

well Im happy as a tick on a coon-hounds neck. Get this done and you got my cash. Need cash to get this done Ill be a shareholder or something of the likes. Hell as soon as im done rebuilding my N/A, and my s12 gets here, you can come get my N/A ( or ill meet you half way) and you can use it as long as you need (as long as the project keeps moving forward). keep me updated, and ill keep money in the bank.

[NolimitZ32]

Though I would throw up a quick update. I have finished with the design of the transfer plate save for a few bolt holes who's placement will depend on which TBs I choose. I am meeting up with the CNC guy next week to discuss the possibility of making custom TBs because I need 44mm-46mm diameter and motorcycle units that do go that big are not usable for my purposes. If any of you guys have access to cheap motorcycle parts please let me know because I am trying to keep the cost of this prototype and the entire design down so I will be able to finish it without emptying my bank account and so if this does go commercial no one will have to sell a kidney to own a set. I have been and plan to be very busy this summer so most of this work is taking place in the evenings after work for a few hours at a time, I am making very slow progress (much slower than I would like) but I am progress non the less and thats a good sign. As with anything else I appreciate everyone's help and suggestions.

Anton

[jona300zx]

cool man no rush make them nice and neat...... rushed work usually has flaws.

[DCaff300ZX]

cool man no rush make them nice and neat...... rushed work usually has flaws.

TOTALLY agree, speed almost always sacrifices quality.
I think that anyone interested in ITB has (edit-would want) to know any system improves the engine operation with no sacrifices in reliability or serviceability, which will surely be the bulk of your product testing.

[RARZ]

What has not been said yet is, What kind of horse power gains would we be looking at?

[DCaff300ZX]

ITB is more about efficiency and throttle response than simple HP gains, although there may be a few more HP available with further tuning.

[NolimitZ32]

As I have already said, I'm building this first set with sound/style in mind, I am building it with efficiency in mind but do not promise any kind of gains at all (save for throttle response) There are a lot of issues to work out mainly with serviceability of the vehicle since doing anything to these cars is already a PITA I don't want to make life more miserable for Z32 owners by creating more problems. Hopefully I will have some (CAD) eye candy for you guys soon. I am still working out the details of the actual TBs and it's looking more and more like I'll be going with custom built TBs vs the R6 TBs I was originally thinking of using.

[300ZXttZMAN]

Please have eye candy for us I cant wait for this project to be complete.... Plus think about this once your done with ITB's its time to make a jet engine

[NolimitZ32]

I wish I could just stay home and work on these but I can't, sadly I have to work so I can fund little projects like this. I have tons of schematic concepts on paper and some of the more promising ones in CAD but I want to get something graphically put together before I start showing anything off.

[raremotive]

What area of TB are you planning to use?

[NolimitZ32]

What area of TB are you planning to use?

What do you mean, cross-sectional area?

[raremotive]

Yep.

[NolimitZ32]

I'm looking in the 45mm Diam. range, so 1590 sq mm give or take. I'm trying to maximize the area but because of where I want to place the ITBs relative to the lower plenum I'm limited on space by the walls between the runners.

[DCaff300ZX]

LOVE it...keep up the tech talk, I wanna follow along!

[raremotive]

I'm looking in the 45mm Diam. range, so 1590 sq mm give or take. I'm trying to maximize the area but because of where I want to place the ITBs relative to the lower plenum I'm limited on space by the walls between the runners.

Just curious in your reasoning for 45 mm TBs?

[fyneyoungstunna]

it should simplify a lot of stuff under the hood!! thats enough of a reason for me lol.

[NolimitZ32]

I'm looking in the 45mm Diam. range, so 1590 sq mm give or take. I'm trying to maximize the area but because of where I want to place the ITBs relative to the lower plenum I'm limited on space by the walls between the runners.

Just curious in your reasoning for 45 mm TBs?

45mm gives me a cross-sectional area that is closest to that of the runners at the mating surface to the lower plenum. It actually comes out to need like 44.76mm TBs but I figure It'll be easier to go with a round number, slightly larger than required so as not to create a bottleneck and then work off of it in the future (if this goes anywhere) to creak different setups for low end vs. top end, the possibilities are endless as to how you can make the car behave just by changing the size of the TBs so I figured I'd start with the most neutral, that being factory matched openings.

it should simplify a lot of stuff under the hood!! thats enough of a reason for me lol.

The system I'm building right now is going to replace the upper plenum and some other things under the hood but will still use the stock MAF and air piping to meter air. I want to make a system that is completely bolt on first and then back off and make the Atmospheric system as it will require little work to convert from the full system I am building ATM but will require extensive EM modifications to the car.

[raremotive]

45mm gives me a cross-sectional area that is closest to that of the runners at the mating surface to the lower plenum. It actually comes out to need like 44.76mm TBs but I figure It'll be easier to go with a round number, slightly larger than required so as not to create a bottleneck and then work off of it in the future (if this goes anywhere) to creak different setups for low end vs. top end, the possibilities are endless as to how you can make the car behave just by changing the size of the TBs so I figured I'd start with the most neutral, that being factory matched openings.

45 mm should be good for 260+ hp. I do suspect a sluggish low end. Even the RB26 has 45 mm tbs. Peak power is 6800 rpm. The RB also has a poor low end, but much made up by the rpms (9k of it..)...and turbos.

But to immitate stock power levels 210+, 40 mm is where it's at.

[DCaff300ZX]

Pardon my perhaps bad assumption, but don't the "trumpets" of the typical open ITB adjust for things such as torque/specific engine intake requirements? In essence adjusting the TB bore to specific needs with airflow influences?

[NolimitZ32]

Rare: It seems a sluggish low-end is unavoidable with ITBs on this engine since there is no plenum volume or extensive runner length to make the torque, plus peak power on a VG30DE is much lower than the RB26, its actually around 4800-4900 so it shouldn't be affected by the sluggishness as much as the entire system's peak torque output is calculated to be closer to idle.

DCaff: Yes and no, you can limit airflow with the trumpet but your throttle plate and therefore opening will be the same size.

[raremotive]

Peak torque is 4,400 on a RB.

The trumpets can be helpful at one rpm, and more hurtful at another. Trial and Error can win you good gains with minamal harm. Attention needs to be made for the lengths of the trumpets so that fuel does not reverse out of the inlet and be sucked into another cylinder. If correct length is made, then injectors can be fired sooner and more power potential can be had. This is due to the better combustion chamber cooling, and fuel atomization.

These trumpets, velocity stacks can be made to run atmospheric or within a plenum.



The shape can be the same and still be flush to the plenum wall. Yield the same benefits.



But maybe this can inspire NolimitZ

[NolimitZ32]

Rare, what are you going to school for?

[raremotive]

Mechanical Engineering. I am done, mostly. I just have a single 4 - credit course. Then I will get my paper and run....

Far as my knowledge comes. I DIY alot, and I enjoy R&D with intentions of understanding the way things work, even if they are not working how you wanted it to work. I also read many books, and I can relate them to my engineering principles I have learned. Additionally, I am friends with an Nismo insider and I well as some Japanese tuners that I occasionally bounce to.

So a lot of self study.

I am hoping to build hobby shop so I can start cranking out my own methodologies to broaden my knowledge and capiabilites. If it doesn't become a place to hide the beer with friends from the wife.

[NolimitZ32]

Bad a** man, I just graduated with Construction Management and thinking of going back for ME as well, I've done a ton of self study, I think its the best way to learn anything. Well thanks for all your input man I really appreciate it and am always open to suggestions and corrections.

And that last pic is sort of what I had in mind.

[raremotive]

Bad a** man, I just graduated with Construction Management and thinking of going back for ME as well, I've done a ton of self study, I think its the best way to learn anything. Well thanks for all your input man I really appreciate it and am always open to suggestions and corrections.

And that last pic is sort of what I had in mind.

I'd say if you are not happy or enjoy your job. Then go for ME degree. Automotive industry is very packed. Even I would not land working for Ford or even.. Nissan. So, it will be something repetative. Maybe manufacturing.

But to be honest. I look forward to my shop, it can be my home to build what ever tickles my fancy. Like a yaht that can submerse under water. Kind of like a U-boat, but has a deck to bath in the sun and peer out to the open water. Maybe I can even make it hydroplane. These kind of challenges allow me to go out of the norm and learn something new else where. And when I come back to tinkering cars, I will have new eyes. To me, I can sponsor, build, and race my own cars, is plenty to fuel my automotive ME urges.

I just need a ME job that I can enjoy. And help me support me, family, their dream and ultimately my dream(above).

But, I have to say take what I say as a grain of salt. I often struggle with myself with my knowledge, and force myself to find reason. I am open to all as well, and to anyone who can present themselves in appropiate mannerism/attitude. (This is for others to read aswell)

That CF plenum is beautiful. Just toying in thought, but you could easily siamese two ports and cap it with a TB. That would be a total of 3 TB's. Your set up would look exactly like in the picture.

[NolimitZ32]

Thats an interesting idea about Siamese ports, I'm going to have to read up on it. As for the degree, I love tinckering and fabricating, ATM its little things but ultimately I would love to have a full CNC shop with a lift or 2 for my car tinkering needs. With me it all started with cars but at this point has gone so much farther which is why I'm considering ME degree, I have a job and I'm using my degree and I like construction so I don't really dread going to work every morning (I despise the traffic but thats a different story) I just want a ME for my own interests as well as to be more marketable in my field because with a PE and a Construction degree I could go pretty far in my industry.