Possible head gasket issues again...no joke

[BoostFab]

the o-ring crushes against the headgasket and give a total seal.

[Shocker]

Now are those rings in a groove? Also is this something an engine re builder would have no problem doing, and obtaining these rings?

[noodl35]

Come read this blog articleCosworth did testing on name brand headgaskets. Comparisons should be worth the read.Notice how Cometic hg's don't seal as well compared to other brands. I have had bad experience with cometic hg's as well. I had to spend alot more at the end just because I wanted a "cheaper" headgasket. http://jdm-insider.com/Blogs/Eric/?p=386

From the looks of your oil, it doesn't seem bad at all. The oil on your fingers seem like dirt and grease rather than fresh oil. On the oilcap, that slude is normal, especially if you have used white engine lube. That stuff gets caught up in there.

[Shocker]

Thank for for that article, I wish I would have read it a few days ago.... If what they are saying is true, the cometic holds less than the damn OEM does....... wow. At least for the 4g63 in this case..

[Carl H]

off the top of my head the orings are cut to fit each motor and typicaly are made of mig wire or piano wire.they work well tho, if i had, had the chance to had my block oringed then i would have but i dont plan on running more than 25psi max...

[nizmo zilvia]

off the top of my head the orings are cut to fit each motor and typicaly are made of mig wire or piano wire.they work well tho, if i had, had the chance to had my block oringed then i would have but i dont plan on running more than 25psi max...

So your pretty much saying those that are planning on running a HX series turbo or another should have this done if going over 25psi? And how much does this go for?

[Darius]

You can always sell it and save yourself the heartache.

The o-ringing with the stock gasket would be best since it would be forgiving for irregularities in the block/head yet hold the cylinder pressures inside the ring. Are there guidelines on the width of gap between the ring ends like piston rings?

[nizmo zilvia]

Looks like there is.

[Shocker]

off the top of my head the orings are cut to fit each motor and typicaly are made of mig wire or piano wire.they work well tho, if i had, had the chance to had my block oringed then i would have but i dont plan on running more than 25psi max...

See heres where my problem lies, I'm doing a complete rebuild right now(stroker/forgies), I DO NOT want to have to open up my ****ing block again! I did that way to many times last year and frankly am quite sick of it.

Im considering this Cosworth gasket after reading the review XS did on it. I also am considering the stock HG with these o-rings. Of course ARP fasteners will be holding my head down...

BoostFed or anyone have any solid numbers on the power held down doing the stock hg/0-ring method?

I'm not entirely sure how much boost I will plan to run, but I do eventually plan to run race gas 30 psi +.... So I'd rather get ready now.

EDIT:

Interesting article I found that Buschur Racing did on the best "seal" they found with the 4g63. If this holds true with the RB, it sounds like Carl might be right. I'd just let to see other examples that it has worked for before I go ahead and possibly have this done..http://www.dragsport.com/issue/6/tech.shtml

opinions?
Modified by Shocker at 8:18 PM 1/11/2008

[eh?]

Not a good option if you've alread built your block. Why strip the block and take it back the the machine shop to be o-ringed?

Lots of RB's making excellent power on metal HGs' and not leaking (just haven't heard of any RB with a cometic making any good power..)

[DriftingisLame]

Not to bash anyone, but I really cant understand what's wrong with stock headgaskets. I've pulled them out of 2 different *old* rb20's now, and they've showed no signs of deteriorating, or weakening around the combustion chamber. One of the motors was my own, and it had the piss detonated out of it, yeah there was chunks of piston caked up on the side, but no leaking/breakage whatsoever. The stock headgasket is strong, and I'll continue to use it.

We just did an LS/vtec conversion on a co workers car with a cometic headgasket, and we're pulling off the head again today to fix the massive oil leak out the side of the head. I dont see why we ignore good sealing affordable headgaskets for a 10,000hp holding, poor sealing, expensive gasket.

Just a thought, best of luck Darius.

Oh yes, btw, that o-ringing looks pretty cool..kthxbye

[Shocker]

Not a good option if you've alread built your block. Why strip the block and take it back the the machine shop to be o-ringed?

Lots of RB's making excellent power on metal HGs' and not leaking (just haven't heard of any RB with a cometic making any good power..)

I know, however I am building my block right now so it was a generally question....

So far I'm leaning towards the Cosworth MHG, or the stocker and arp studs with either...

[Coolwhip]

yea I was decided to go back to the stocker when mine was starting its bad behavior, due to me being scared to use it after seeing Darius' first attempt at these gaskets.

Stocker should hold up

[minivan_don]

a common problem people have on almost any import engine running a cometi/arp combo is too little tq ... from what ive seen. thread chasing, head resurfacing/block decking aside, ive found that applying the good tq level is key.

ive been running a cometic with arps for about 5k kms now with a gt3582 @ 19psi... no leaks for me. the factory calls for 65 ft lb if i remember correctly, arp recommends 70 i believe... i did 80 based on my tuners advice and what they have done with 30+ of their customers cars (sr, ka, rb, honda's, ect) who are running any mls gasket - but specifically cometic. i did not use the copper spray as its not recommended by cometic and my machinist didnt sugguest it either.i plan on hitting 2bar with my water meth kit this spring.

my friend running a built ka-t only did 65-70 ft lb ... he ended up having a small leak but caught it really soon - he re tq'd things down to 80 and have held out since. he used the copper spray. i shouldnt forsee any problems with my friends rb25 w/ cometic (no copper)/arp studs that i built for him the other weekend.

im not here to convince you to go cometic again, but just my feedback. hope things go well!

[Darius]

Drifting is Lame - not to bash your idea or anything but the stock HG alone is not going to hold up to the power levels that I'm aiming for. That is like saying the stock brakes are good enough for a racing circuit since they have never overheated before.

I'm out to the garage right now to do the leakdown test, so we'll see.

[noodl35]

Not a good option if you've alread built your block. Why strip the block and take it back the the machine shop to be o-ringed?

Lots of RB's making excellent power on metal HGs' and not leaking (just haven't heard of any RB with a cometic making any good power..)

I would definitely go with cosworth on this one.

[Darius]

Just finished the leakdown test and here's the results. Each cylinder was in the "low" leakdown zone of 0-40%

1-30%2-30%3-25%4-25%5-30%6-20%

[BoostFab]

I would definitely go with cosworth on this one.

try it out and let us know

[Shocker]

I called and spoke with XS Engineering today, got some information. They know the guy who wrote the article on jdm-insider.com, but he doesn't not work for them.

He said they basically always go with either the HKS MHG, or the Cosworth and have never had an issue with either leaking. He also did say they have used other gaskets for customers and from what they have seen never had an issue either..

So I ended up going with the Cosworth, hopefully she seals well.

Any more word on your car Darius?

[Darius]

I haven't decided what I want to do yet. I am not fully convinced that there is a head gasket problem after the leakdown test came back as good as it did. There are a ton of other upgrades and mini-projects I'm doing on it right now that are keeping my mind off of the issue. Too stressful to think of yanking the head again with all the labor involved. Honestly takes me about a week to pull it and put it back together with all the other stuff I have going on.

[BoostFab]

I haven't decided what I want to do yet. I am not fully convinced that there is a head gasket problem after the leakdown test came back as good as it did. There are a ton of other upgrades and mini-projects I'm doing on it right now that are keeping my mind off of the issue. Too stressful to think of yanking the head again with all the labor involved. Honestly takes me about a week to pull it and put it back together with all the other stuff I have going on.

i can't be sure just by the leak down; that only means the compression chamber hold pressure fine, but hte oil and water jacket maybe where the leak is that the leak down can't detect. you see my point ?

[Shocker]

I completely understand Darius... I'm so sick of working on my car, I don't even want to look at it.... Hopefully Boostfed's wrong and its not a jacket.... but you never know.

[Darius]

That makes sense, but there is no oil in my coolant (which only means the water pressure is higher than the oil pressure at the point of a leak). I am planning on changing my oil and filter next week when I change out my front main seal, so we'll see if some significant coolant has settled out in the pan. The front main seal never fit that well over the JUN crank collar. Kinda tight.

[gawdzilla]

Just finished the leakdown test and here's the results. Each cylinder was in the "low" leakdown zone of 0-40%

1-30%2-30%3-25%4-25%5-30%6-20%

those numbers look kinda high to me .. usually i see around 3-10% on a healthy motor. could very well be a variance in the leakdown tester itself. what psi are you testing at?

difference of 10% also seems a bit high. do you have a coolant system pressurizer? maybe give that a shot and see if you find any leaks. if not, bolt on your stuff and just see how far you can get. worst case you'll blow the HG

[Darius]

The regulator on the air compressor was set at 110 psi. The leakdown pressure gauge said it was at about 80psi. I just adjusted the knob on the leakdown gauge so it was in the middle of the "set" zone and kept the air compressor pressure the same. Honestly, it was my first leakdown test, so there could be some operator error in there. haha actually I was adjusting that "set" knob around between tests and after I read all the way through the directions, they say not to do that.

I don't have a coolant system pressurizer and with everything apart, it would be a PITA to block everything off in order to pressurize the system.