Possible blown head gasket??

[RS12Turbo]

Is it possible to have a blown HG or the start of a blown HG without having oil in the coolant or coolant in the oil?Here are my symptoms........my coolant overflow bottle will be bone dry after 150 miles or so.....no puddles of coolant on the ground, although I can see a couple of drips of coolant on the block between the turbo oil feed outlet and engine mount bracket...never makes it to the ground though (weird area to see coolant). When I idle the engine with the spark plug cover off....i can smell coolant rising up in the hot engine vapors when I stick my nose down by the coil packs. Also, when I shut off the engine I can hear a gurgle from the engine too....thought it was coming from the overflow bottle, but it's coming from the engine somewhere.Engine idles perfect, no smoke, and it pulls strong as always. Plugs look normal too.I don't know if this is related, or a different issue....but when I get on it with the heater on....I can smell coolant through the air vents, and the windshield will fog up at the same time. Footwells are dry, so I doubt it's the heater core.I'm stumped......any ideas on where to start?

[boost_boy]

Is it possible to have a blown HG or the start of a blown HG without having oil in the coolant or coolant in the oil?Here are my symptoms........my coolant overflow bottle will be bone dry after 150 miles or so.....no puddles of coolant on the ground, although I can see a couple of drips of coolant on the block between the turbo oil feed outlet and engine mount bracket...never makes it to the ground though (weird area to see coolant). When I idle the engine with the spark plug cover off....i can smell coolant rising up in the hot engine vapors when I stick my nose down by the coil packs. Also, when I shut off the engine I can hear a gurgle from the engine too....thought it was coming from the overflow bottle, but it's coming from the engine somewhere.Engine idles perfect, no smoke, and it pulls strong as always. Plugs look normal too.I don't know if this is related, or a different issue....but when I get on it with the heater on....I can smell coolant through the air vents, and the windshield will fog up at the same time. Footwells are dry, so I doubt it's the heater core.I'm stumped......any ideas on where to start?

Coolant produces white smoke when ignited in the combustion chamber and will show-up on spark plugs as hard water deposits. Start looking at your radiator or water pump's efficiency.

Dee

[RS12Turbo]

Coolant produces white smoke when ignited in the combustin chamber and will show-up on spark plugs as hard water deposits. Start looking at your radiator or water pump's efficiency.

Dee

i'll pull the plugs again for a closer inspection.....radiator is new, and water pump was new when I put in the motor....but in anycase, it is pumping.....how would either of those explain coolant loss? If there are not any coolant passages where/ if the head gasket failed, then there wouldn't be coolant in the combustion chamber...right? IF the head gasket did indeed fail...then it's gotta be microscopic

[boost_boy]

i'll pull the plugs again for a closer inspection.....radiator is new, and water pump was new when I put in the motor....but in anycase, it is pumping.....how would either of those explain coolant loss? If there are not any coolant passages where/ if the head gasket failed, then there wouldn't be coolant in the combustion chamber...right? IF the head gasket did indeed fail...then it's gotta be microscopic

HOnestly man, have you been running the car a little harder than normal (more boost) over a longer than normal sustained period? A blown headgasket will indeed swipe your coolant, but it would show and smell especially from your exhaust. Check those plugs again.

Dee

[RS12Turbo]

nope......I only drive it maybe 50 miles every couple of weeks...if that, so I haven't been running it any harder than normal......boost I've kept the same since I installed it 2 years ago @ 15 psi on a t25g......but then again I have been losing coolant slowly since I've had it....it just has gotten worse over the past 6 months or so....but never noticed any white smoke.Yeah, I'll pull the plugs again, and check the exhaust for white smoke.....kinda hard to tell between cold smoke and white smoke with it being cold out...but i'll back it out of the garage to make it easier...If there is white smoke...should it show as soon as I crank the engine...or does it take a while to produce?

[rico05]

When my HG went, it was drenching the side of my block in coolant. When I pulled the head, the seal ring on #4 was hairline cracked, but combustion gasses actually pushed coolant out the motor.

When an HG goes, it goes. It sounds like you have a small leak somewhere. I would start by replacing the copper crush washers on the coolant return like of the turbo and go from there.

[float_6969]

I had a bad HG when I initially built my motor and it constantly leaked a very small amount of coolant out of the exhaust side of the head as well as some oil too. Replaced the HG and I have never lost oil or coolant from that spot again.

[RS12Turbo]

It sounds like you have a small leak somewhere. I would start by replacing the copper crush washers on the coolant return like of the turbo and go from there.

well, as mentioned in the first post....the coolant stains I see are near the oil feed line on the block.....nothing around that area has coolant, except the head gasket above....and no coolant ever makes it to the ground...so it's not leaking much at all from that spot.....T

[chalander3443]

...Also, when I shut off the engine I can hear a gurgle from the engine too....thought it was coming from the overflow bottle, but it's coming from the engine somewhere...

KEY POINT! My ca18det has the exact same symptoms. The gurgling noise that i heard, imo is due to an oil leak in the valve cover. Through research i have found substantial evidence supporting the leakage of the rear valve cover(s). My ca would go through a tremendous amount of coolant, i ended up taking out the thermostat and still the coolant seemed to disappear. I never had an evidence of a blown head gasket in my exhaust ether. What ultimately pursuaded me that the culprit was a HG issue was the oil i found floating in my coolant. Go figure =P

Due to the similarities in both of our symptoms i would suggest that your head gasket is in fact operational, but bad. I am currently tearing into my engine to replace my head gasket. Check out my thread to see whether my hypothesis is correct. For both of our sakes, i hope it is

My thread : zerothread?id=390958

[sicj]

first off a leak ALYWAYS drips down. So that's easy to diagnose, if you see coolant on the oil feed fitting then it's dripping from above.

sounds like the gasket blew out at at one of the waterjackets near the edge of the head.

You need to pressure test the system and watch where the coolant is leaking out from.

you have no coolant on the ground cause the system isn't pressurized so it can't leak.

Doesn't sound like you have coolant in the combustion chamber. The exhaust would smell sweet if it was burning coolant. If you need 100% proof, take it down to the smog shop and have them put the sniffer near the radiator neck with the cap off. If you got HC's in the coolant you have your answer!

[zero_gripS13]

autozone rents out fluid u add to a sample of your coolant it changes color if exhaust gases are in your coolant. calles block tester or soemthing

[KEMP]

Its your headgasket man.

mine just went after the EXACT same symptoms. Eating coolant dicreatly, no smoke, light smell and leak towards the front on the side of the block.

pulled the head today, and the gasket was pretty shot.

[RS12Turbo]

Cool...good to know.How hard was it to pull the head? Did you pull the head, intake mani, and exhaust mani/ turbo as one unit?

[chalander3443]

i am still waiting to do it myself, i may do it today actually. but there is a main factor between you and me pulling the head. my motor is already out of the chasis but i'll post a walk through with pictures.

[boost_boy]

Cool...good to know.How hard was it to pull the head? Did you pull the head, intake mani, and exhaust mani/ turbo as one unit?

Pull the head with everything attached to and put it back in the same fashion or you will regret it. I just did it to a customer's car who brought the car to me for a standalone install and when I was done installing it, I realized that I was able to turn his crank pulley with my bare hands= No compression. He had a badly blown headgasket and his simple standalone install turned into a costly one, but he wanted it done right, so he paid me to do. Unfortunately, he say he doesn't have any more money for upgraded injectors and turbo, so I had to deal with the stock turbo and an SSAuto manifold, so I pulled the head as a complete unit by myself and put it back as a complete unit. Car runs just fine with excellent compression and a crappy stock turbo.

Dee

[RS12Turbo]

Yeah...I was thinking it would be easier to pull it as one unit vs taking the turbo, exhaust mani and intake mani off then the head....that would be a pain in the arse.How heavy is it to pull out as one unit....gotta be heavy as ****! Did you use an engine lift to raise/ lower it..or did you "man handle" it?What has to be disconnected to lift the whole thing out as one unit? The obvious things I can think of would be the engine harness, down pipe, drive belts, timing belt, top rad hose, ic pipes, oil and coolant lines for the turbo. What else....heater hoses?Thanks

[RS12Turbo]

just went out and checked for white smoke. I let it idle for about 20 mins, and after about 10 mins, once the water temp was up to normal, I noticed a little white smoke.....but the weird thing was i couldn't see it outside of the tail pipe. In other words I could just see it bouncing around inside the muffler tip, and it seem'd to disappear before it exited. It did this the whole time I had it idling, after the warm-up. The exhaust didn't smell like sweet coolant either...although when I popped the hood, it reeked of that sweet smell. No leaks as usual

[chalander3443]

it could be that the leak in your head gasket is pushing the fluids out of the block rather than it seeping into the cylinder. Take off the head and check

[KEMP]

just went out and checked for white smoke. I let it idle for about 20 mins, and after about 10 mins, once the water temp was up to normal, I noticed a little white smoke.....but the weird thing was i couldn't see it outside of the tail pipe. In other words I could just see it bouncing around inside the muffler tip, and it seem'd to disappear before it exited. It did this the whole time I had it idling, after the warm-up. The exhaust didn't smell like sweet coolant either...although when I popped the hood, it reeked of that sweet smell. No leaks as usual

just got mine running today, it wasnt all too bad. pull your whole harness off the head, take off the block to intake mani bracker, coolant hoses, and what not, loosen the head studs, loosen Tbelt tensioner, pult t belt off off gears. stand in engine bay and lift her up, its no too heavy, im a skinny 18 year old and i did it. i also have a top mount turbo, this made it much easier.

[RS12Turbo]

just got mine running today, it wasnt all too bad. pull your whole harness off the head, take off the block to intake mani bracker, coolant hoses, and what not, loosen the head studs, loosen Tbelt tensioner, pult t belt off off gears. stand in engine bay and lift her up, its no too heavy, im a skinny 18 year old and i did it. i also have a top mount turbo, this made it much easier.

Cool...thanks for the tips....took your hood off too, I would think? Never thought about standing in the engine bay to lift.....I may try that. I had thought about mounting a pulley above the engine on one of the garage ceiling rafter, and pulling it up that way.Ohh, and a custom top mounty header will be going back in

[chalander3443]

So i just got my head gasket off and sure enough it was blown. There was an oil port blown so oil leaked down my block. Also there was a coolant whole blown which resulted in leakage into cylinder number 2. I remind you that i suffered from the same symptoms you did.

Good luck with your head gasket project

[RS12Turbo]

did you guys replace the head bolts with new ones...or just re-use the originals?

[float_6969]

I don't think they're Torque to Yield bolts. The FSM doesn't state anything about replacing them (and it WOULD say something) and just from looking at the tightening procedure in the FSM, it doesn't look like they are.

I'd re-use them. The only reason I put ARP bolts in mine was because I was trying to fix a leakage problem on a new rebuild and though the bolts were stretched so I got the ARP's. It didn't fix the leak and I ended up putting a Felpro in there. I've never had a problem since.

[chalander3443]

did you guys replace the head bolts with new ones...or just re-use the originals?

I purchased ARP studs because i wanted to ensure that they would hold. Though i am not re-using them, i still don't disagree doing so. Float knows

[r34 gtr]

Hey Keith, my car has done that same gurgling, sucking the radiator overflow dry thing for the last 4 years. It has had several head gaskets in that time, and all kinds of internal work done in several installments over the years. I just ignore it. Has not broken down on me in forever! Though it does leak oil, run like crap, and suck down gas.

[chalander3443]

Hey Keith, my car has done that same gurgling, sucking the radiator overflow dry thing for the last 4 years. It has had several head gaskets in that time, and all kinds of internal work done in several installments over the years. I just ignore it. Has not broken down on me in forever! Though it does leak oil, run like crap, and suck down gas.

Unless you don't care, get a hint! Your car cannot speak to you but it can do a damn good job on letting you know that something is not right. I would not ignore that sort of problem, even if my car still ran after four years of deceitful abuse.

[r34 gtr]

I'm not going to worry about it. My oil pump is tired so the bottom end is being rebuilt next month. I will address it then.

[chalander3443]

Just remember, if you get coolant in your cylinder you going to have to do some head work to repair your corroded exhaust valves.