Pontiac after 1972: What was the point?

[MinisterofDOOM]

So in my QX56 review thread, Jesda pointed out that it looks like something '90s Pontiac might have designed (not a compliment, in case that's not clear).
I also live in a town where probably 70% of the traffic is Pontiac, with another 20% being Buick and the last 10 everything else (there are THREE LSs in town!).

EVERY TIME I see a Pontiac, the first thought in my mind is "What on earth would prompt someone to buy THAT car over quite literally ANYTHING else on a dealer lot?!"

I don't "get" Pontiac. DeLorean-era Pontiac, sure. But after the musclecar died? What was the point? I can think of ONE Pontiac that mattered after 1972: the Bonneville, which could be had with the for-its-time superb supercharged 3.8 liter V6 in SSEi form with a very nice interior and it came in black-on-black-on-black-on-black-on-black. My grandparents had an all black SSE (no S/C but otherwise the same as the SSEi) and it looked great and drove nice.

So, what the Hell was the point of the rest of the brand.

Can ANYONE explain to me why someone would PAY ACTUAL DOLLARS for a Grand Am? The ugliest, sh@ttiest, cheapassiest, tacked-on-plastickiest pile of s*** this side of a Jiangling Landwind? I know 'Murican car elitists who would recommend them over Civics because they're made here in the good old US of A, but I still don't get it. GM's four-cylinders are historically the worst of the worst. And the bragging rights of a V6 in a small car end when your V6 is outdone by the competitions fours.

I don't get the FWD Grand Prix, either. And as a Maxima owner I was kind of exposed to a lot of EXTREMELY PROUD Grand Prix owners, as the cars competed pretty directly. The thing was...Grand Prix owners would brag about 250 ft-lb out of their S/C 3.8 liter V6, while I was getting 250 ft-lb out of my 3.5 liter N/A V6. This is the same engine that went the early-90s Bonneville, the only difference is the Grand Prix GTP came over a decade later. Same engine. Camry's made more power N/A. But DAMN would Grand Prix owners talk s*** about their supercharged awesomemobiles. Too bad they're based on archaic W-body tech that handles like a beached whale and puts power to the wrong end of the @#$%ing car.

Can someone explain Pontiac to me? And I don't mean barely pre-death Pontiac that was selling Solstices and G8s. I mean the Pontiac that very much EARNED the death sentence the brand saw carried out in 2010.

Ugly, generic, cheap, plasticky, and marketed as a sporty brand but not remotely sporty. Late-lifecycle Pontiac made about as much sense as a kick in the balls.

[Jesda]

Pontiac brought tons of women to GM. Most late model Pontiacs were registered to females -- same was true for Mitsubishi.

I don't know what that says about Pontiac. It does say that a lot of women might not be all that bright.

[Jesda]

Failed out of community college:


Failed out of cosmetology school:


I dated the former.

[Bubba1]

I agree, from the mid 70's until the mid 90's, there was very little Pontiac offered that rose above bovine excrement. To be fair, one could say the same about most of GM's offerings during that era (excluding the C4/C5 corvettes & full sized pickup trucks perhaps).

The only interesting vehicles Pontiac offered in the 70's or 80's that come to my mind were the transams or V6 Fiero's . Unfortunately by the time Pontiac began to show any kind of a pulse during the "pre-death" period (with the WS6 Transam and Holden Monaro GTO) it was too little too late .

I think the point now for owning a Pontiac of that era is either nostalgia or that they're dirt cheap to buy. As far as why the Pontiac division deteriorated so badly during that period, it was a combination of several factors including (but not limited to) gross mismanagement, greed, poor build quality, arrogance, a boring lineup, and improving competition by foreign manufacturers with better warranties.

[Rogue One]

↑↑↑ Nailed it!

[MinisterofDOOM]

Can't believe I forgot about the Fiero. Of course, the only Fiero worth owning has a Northstar swap. Or an LS4 swap I guess.

The G6 was so terrible looking. It's like a pinched-off turd. The rear tapers at such a weird angle, it destroys any "sportiness" that might have remained in the styling. The 4-door also has really odd proportions. GXP model G6s cause me physical pain.

[frapjap]

Failed out of community college:


Failed out of cosmetology school:


I dated the former.

Nailed it. 100% true.

Later model Grand Ams were for girls going to a real University.

[BusyBadger]

Indeed...

As far as I'm concerned this was the only real Trans Am (apologies to Ray & Sammy Hagar)...

[Bubba1]

Indeed...

As far as I'm concerned this was the only real Trans Am (apologies to Ray & Sammy Hagar)...

My favorite one too.^

[themadscientist]

Nope, 67-68.

[Rogue One]

Nope, 67-68.

[themadscientist]

The 68 Camaro is like the quarterback of the football team, the Firebird is the gang member brother with a 400 and a hood tach.

[Bubba1]

[quote="themadscientist"]Nope, 67-68.






67-68 is my second favorite gen. Followed by the last gen WS6.

[flohtingPoint]

Indeed...

As far as I'm concerned this was the only real Trans Am (apologies to Ray & Sammy Hagar)...

Look up the name Madarash... Multi-time national champion in a 3rd gen Fbody. Awesome car.




I dont know if they're (Pontiac) worthless, I mean I'd totally drive a WS6 or a Solstice GXP. Seriously, look at most major car manufactures, they create mostly stuff that are rental car caliber vehicles. Toyota hasn't made a single good car by themselves in nearly two decades. What is Mitsubishi creating right now? To be totally honest, American car companies are really the only people putting out cars worth driving for the most part, either because they're not plagued by CEL's (hello Europe), or sad sedans (hi Japan).

[MinisterofDOOM]

I dont know if they're (Pontiac) worthless, I mean I'd totally drive a WS6 or a Solstice GXP. Seriously, look at most major car manufactures, they create mostly stuff that are rental car caliber vehicles. Toyota hasn't made a single good car by themselves in nearly two decades. What is Mitsubishi creating right now? To be totally honest, American car companies are really the only people putting out cars worth driving for the most part, either because they're not plagued by CEL's (hello Europe), or sad sedans (hi Japan).

I agree as far as today's products, and even the last few years of Pontiac's life under Lutz's direction.

In the '70s, '80s, '90s, and early '00s, however, things were very different. There were things Pontiac and GM as a whole did right, but those things were usually undermined by their corporate mentality of corner-cutting along the way to the end product.

I certainly won't be buying Japanese for my next newish car. Not least because Japan seems to have entirely forgotten how to face engines the correct way.

[Heavy]

YEAH PRE 72 PONCHOS ROCK ON!!

[Bubba1]

YEAH PRE 72 PONCHOS ROCK ON!!

1965?

[MinisterofDOOM]

I love vertical headlights.

[Nicodomeus]

*edit*

I know not post 72 but gawd dayum

[PapaSmurf2k3]

I wouldn't mind a Solstice actually.
I mean, don't get me wrong, there's better stuff out there... but if I won it on wheel of fortune or something, I wouldn't be upset.

[Jesda]

Solstice GXP is a freakin' sweet car. Interior is made of toothpicks and glue and the top is a pain in the a** but it puts the NC Miata to shame.

[Bubba1]

Solstice GXP is a freakin' sweet car. Interior is made of toothpicks and glue and the top is a pain in the a** but it puts the NC Miata to shame.

I had a former co-worker that was a QA officer at the GM Wilmington plant where the Solstice was built. He ended up quitting as he was disgusted by shoddy work, and the inability to get things fixed right. Based on the stuff he was telling me, I'd be afraid to own one.

[MinisterofDOOM]

Solstice GXP is a freakin' sweet car. Interior is made of toothpicks and glue and the top is a pain in the a** but it puts the NC Miata to shame.

That's why you get the hardtop. Better looking, better handling, no stupid clothtop.

Or, better yet, get one of these:

[themadscientist]

That looks like a George Barris creation.

[PapaSmurf2k3]

It looks like something I left in my toilet...

[frapjap]

Solstice GXP is a freakin' sweet car. Interior is made of toothpicks and glue and the top is a pain in the a** but it puts the NC Miata to shame.

I had a former co-worker that was a QA officer at the GM Wilmington plant where the Solstice was built. He ended up quitting as he was disgusted by shoddy work, and the inability to get things fixed right. Based on the stuff he was telling me, I'd be afraid to own one.

One of the cars I tech'd last year at Carlise was a turbo BRZ. We got to chatting and the topic of his previously owned GXP solstice came up. He said he invested a lot of money in it trying to get it to be competitive in regards to suspension, but in the end, was always having his a** handed to him by Miatas. He was praising the BRZ saying stock for stock, it was light years ahead of the Solstice.

[sx moneypit]

It looks like something I left in my toilet...

[Kompresshun]

That looks like a George Barris creation.

It looks like something I left in my toilet...

Essentially the same thing.

[Bubba1]

That looks like a George Barris creation.

It looks like something I left in my toilet...

Essentially the same thing.

disagree, the Munster coach, Dragula, and original batmobile are Barris creations I'd love to own...

[elwesso]

Despite being really cheaply made, the late 90s and early 2000s grand am and grand prix really held up well, and are pretty solid cars...

My parents had a 2005 grand prix GTP, and that was a fantastic car. By far the best FWD car Pontiac made.. I really enjoyed driving it.. Interior was actually pretty nice.

The V8 G8 was a nice car, primarily due to the fact that it was built by wallaby's versus americans...