poll on ka-t to sr 20

[lulu44321]

for the money spent on a ka-t was it worth it and for the about the same price wouldnt a sr20 give you the same without the ware on the motor cuz ive heard the ka is good but the the down side is weak connecting rods and straw sized exhaust porting just thinking aloud but is there a head swap to get better flow ?

[xckid]

i want names of that girl now!

also connecting rods being week point on a ka !?!wtfi mean i their no forged rods ya..but for a low boost set up they'll do fine for running enough boost to take a sr on.

for me 2.4 > the 2.0hence why im going kat one day

[lulu44321]

but soon you will eceed the limits of the motor because the design was not intended for high rpm or horse power hence the distributor not the direct coils packs

[lulu44321]

out of every body that i know that took a na motor to turbo status has lasted no more then 1 year the ka was not designed for increased cylinder pressure

[gregfarz78]

out of every body that i know that took a na motor to turbo status has lasted no more then 1 year the ka was not designed for increased cylinder pressure

Did they bother to build the engine or get a proper tune? or did they just go for cheap and fast? KA probably gets a bad rap b/c lets face it the 240 is a cheap car lots of kids buy them and want to boost it cheap to go fast, then soon as it blow up they blame poor engine design. Even if you went SR you need to build and tune it properly.

Do your research then decide for yourself. Personally I'm going KAT, parts are readily available and inexpensive, and its more torque then the SR. I'm not going to cut corners though the I'm building the engine from the bottom up.

[lulu44321]

the only reason i would consider a ka-t would be the readaly available parts in local junk yards and the block are dirt cheap other then the sr20 you have to use a 300zx oil filter and parts are over seas shipped

[kouki_hmongster]

[QUOTE=gregfarz78]

Did they bother to build the engine or get a proper tune? or did they just go for cheap and fast? KA probably gets a bad rap b/c lets face it the 240 is a cheap car lots of kids buy them and want to boost it cheap to go fast, then soon as it blow up they blame poor engine design. Even if you went SR you need to build and tune it properly.[QUOTE]

+1, because this motor wasnt built for turbo it lacked a few stuff like bigger injectors and especially the tune...etc. many kids out there blow their motors because they dont buy what they are suppose to buy and end up on the side of the road. If you do your research you would know why people blow their motor and it wasnt because the internals were too weak, it was because they lacked the parts and good tune. there are people out there that had proven the ka can handle up to 400+ whp on stock internals...Youtube it....yes maybe it may not be reliable w/ that power but w/good internals the ka will handle as much as a sr and will make more torque anyday. i had friends w/ less than 300whp and blowing their motor before.

w/ power goals close to 300whp for daily, the stock internals will be able to handle it. this is all based on the condition of the motor. Ka-t have a lot of potiential if you are willing to put money and time into it.

[480sx]

i want names of that girl now!

Shay Laren buddy

LuLu, a stock ka has put down over 500 HP, a few times. STOCK BLOCK. Rods failed at that hp, twice, which is to be expected.

The SR doesnt use the 300zx filter, ffs... It might work with a z filter, but it also works with a Ka's filter. Also, there is no 'shipped overseas' parts to worry about, the SR has a strangle hold on america. US companies manufacture parts, and Japan sends boatloads of SR stuff to be sold here without jacking up the prices by to much.

Again, do some research and make your own choice. From the sound of it you should go SR, its going to be a much easier road for you.

[shimizu_17]

out of every body that i know that took a na motor to turbo status has lasted no more then 1 year the ka was not designed for increased cylinder pressure

If your uncomfortable with the idea of boosting the KA dont bother. Many people have their own ideas on what is good for them. People on ka-t section will obviously vote for a ka-t cause of larger engine, usually more bang for buck, idea of swapping out a perfectly fine engine just to gain 50 hp at the cost of 2,000 dollars. SR people will argue that their engine internals are better, more parts, more reliable, etc.

SR parts are not hard to come by at all so even if a SR breaks you will not have to special order most SR parts because you can find tons of used SR parts on the forums or get them off a n/a sr20.

Also if you are not as mechanically inclined I have found SR users tend to have it a bit easier. Ka-t's you have to be responsible of your tuning, gapping your plugs at proper levels, buying a wideband, check timing under WOT to make sure its ok etc. While SR owners once they get their car running and if you dont add a larger fuel system or turbo its pretty much headache free cause no tuning no worrying about your timing under WOT, air fuel ratios, etc.

[nissanfanatic]

out of every body that i know that took a na motor to turbo status has lasted no more then 1 year the ka was not designed for increased cylinder pressure

Which specific points in the engine would you consider to be insufficient for increased cylinder pressure?

[jbracy7]

cani get some more pics of that angel-un cenersed im gonna air brush her on my hood email me

[xckid]

Shay Laren buddy

LuLu, a stock ka has put down over 500 HP, a few times. STOCK BLOCK. Rods failed at that hp, twice, which is to be expected.

The SR doesnt use the 300zx filter, ffs... It might work with a z filter, but it also works with a Ka's filter. Also, there is no 'shipped overseas' parts to worry about, the SR has a strangle hold on america. US companies manufacture parts, and Japan sends boatloads of SR stuff to be sold here without jacking up the prices by to much.

Again, do some research and make your own choice. From the sound of it you should go SR, its going to be a much easier road for you.

\

thank you kind sir!

[neverlift]

Which specific points in the engine would you consider to be insufficient for increased cylinder pressure?

about to lay down the stock internal dyno for him??????

I've blown 2, both due to me being stupid. the first one was close to a year, and would still be going, had I warmed the motor(sohc ecu running dohc(t) has no warm up function so timing is nutz till warm)lol that is about as reliable as any sr's I've seen...

is the op serious, things like a dizzy motor means non performance funny too is I cant get any of them to line up with my junkyard kat

the only thing an sr has that ka guys want is a better crank. Then sr's would be a BIG *** joke

now can we end the ka vs sr/

[nissanfanatic]

Actually I just wanted to hear what this engineering god had rolling around in his brain. I didn't expect to hear anything reasonably intelligent, or even closely related to an engineering flaw. But I was hoping he would suprise me.... I guess not.

Honestly, the biggest flaw I see with the KA is rod length. Due to rod length, cylinder pressure can definitely cause bending of the connecting rods much easier than it could on the SR. Overall, I think the only way to counter this is to add material along the center section of the rod, mitigating the localization of stress rizors along that area. With that, the additional weight of the connecting rod will stress bearings more, therefore, the end cap design on the crankshaft will need additional material as well. Wrist pin bore cap should be relative to piston weight and speed, so that is an easy one to figure.

Head bolt size should have been larger, IMO. It would also have been nice to raise camshaft position slightly and make the buckets a little taller to accomodate larger camshafts. Both the KA-E and SR20 rape KA *** with camshaft selection. A factory oil cooler would have been nice. And of course, with all the mentioned engines, I hate interference engines.

[480sx]

You cant call that stuff design flaws because the engine wasnt designed to run 30 psi of boost Cory... Its design was intended to produce low to mid range TQ for a 4 cylinder, and it does its job.

IMO, the main 'design flaw' i see on the Ka is the coolant discharge coming out of the intake manifold. Super heating your charge air FTL. I understand that emissions can be reduced slightly by hotter air, but FFS, no other motor that i know of does that, its a retarded design.

Maybe you should run a miata motor... Lol from your statement you hate the majority of all modern engines.

Also, have you ever lifted a head?! Fvk, AMS's build was fine with 11mm studs till the iron cylinder walls cracked at around 1000 crank hp.

[nissanfanatic]

You cant call that stuff design flaws because the engine wasnt designed to run 30 psi of boost Cory... Its design was intended to produce low to mid range TQ for a 4 cylinder, and it does its job.

IMO, the main 'design flaw' i see on the Ka is the coolant discharge coming out of the intake manifold. Super heating your charge air FTL. I understand that emissions can be reduced slightly by hotter air, but FFS, no other motor that i know of does that, its a retarded design.

Maybe you should run a miata motor... Lol from your statement you hate the majority of all modern engines.

Also, have you ever lifted a head?! Fvk, AMS's build was fine with 11mm studs till the iron cylinder walls cracked at around 1000 crank hp.

The coolant situation isn't really that big of a deal IMO. How long does air come into contact with the walls of the intake manifold. In an intercooler, air is divided into small portions so that energy can be transferred to the metal that the intercooler is constructed of. It has to be divided into such small portions because of how fast it is traveling. In the intake manifold, the mass amount of air and length of the runner section that actually has heat transferred to it isn't enough to significantly heat the intake charge IMO, as long as you keep coolant temps under control. IAT is typically around 110* for me at about 14psi, so 180* doesn't allow for much heat transfer to occur. I don't really see any difference in plug color from cylinder one to cylinder four, so obviously there isn't a lot of intake heating occuring on cylinder one, which would be the most affected by design.

When I analyze a design, I usually apply stress until it breaks, and then try to understand why it broke. In comparion to the rest of the engine, the rods are a design flaw. You are simply paraphrasing any remotely educated car person by saying the KA wasn't designed to run 30psi stock. But in reality, neither was the supra, DSM, or SR20. All of them can handle it due to better design than the KA. The only real difference in component design in the SR is it shorter rods. Obviously different valvetrain and materials are used in construction, but the notable difference is shorter rods. The rods in a KA are a design flaw in comparison to the rest of the enigne considering they break first.

And yes, I have lifted the head a couple times. Once was on stock head bolts and once was on ARP 10mm head studs. 11mm studs aren't stock, so that is another design flaw IMO. Although one of the Oklahoma guys did make a lot of power on 10mm head studs. He made somewhere around 600ft/lbs of torque as well.

And I do dislike most modern engines. I am considering buying an S2000 for a daily driver. I honestly do not understand why I keep messing with the KA. It is the exact opposite of what I see as optimal in all regards to design with the exception of structural integrity and cam over bucket valvetrain design. An S2000 would be much closer to what I would consider as a good design.

[480sx]

As far as the intake manifold goes, there is going to be a power balance issue from having cylinder number 1's runner(The runners are quite long remember) be heated to 200 degrees while runner number 4 stays about 100. It might not be as significant as i had imagined, but it is going to be an issue. I know i havnt heard of many people blowing cylinder number one and two without blowing all their ring lands, however you hear of people blowing 3-4 all the time without touching 1-2. Sure, there are multiple contributing factors for this, but i cant see dismissing my theory without any testing. Less dense air due to heat = less bang, less chance of having that cylinder get hit with det under boost. Yes, over heated air will cause detonation, however were not talking a big difference here, like you said.

There was a purpose to the long stroke of the Ka. Its only a design flaw in your mind. The engine does exactly what it was designed to do, belt out TQ for a 4 cylinder capable of being a 'truck motor' with reasonable MPG's. Do you ever hear of a stock Ka blowing because of a failed connecting rod?

The engine was never designed with the performance crowd in mind, so how can you say that because it cant handle 30 psi of boost that it has a design flaw? The fact that it can handle 350 hp all day long is a testament to how it is actually quite a bad *** little motor.

Your bring up the 2JZ in comparison to the KA?! Give me a break. All those other motors you bought up were designed with the performance crowd in mind, ALL of which came stock with a turbocharger, rev capability, and a FCW crank(pretty sure at least, the DSM is the only one im not 100 percent on about the crank).

Yea, S2Ks are sick, so is a Honda. Vtec and boost are simply amazing, i would love to drive a boosted S2K. However, start trying to figure out where the weak points (design flaws, however you want to look at it) of that motor are and you will empty your wallet.

[sunnys14]

noobs noobs noobs, OP you are are noob

I've built both SRs and KAs. They both have their ups and downs.

Any engine can be fast if you put your money into it.

SR's have alot of aftermarket support. KA's lately has gotten huge aftermarket support. So both have alot of good parts to buy to be fast.

People saying SR's is better because it can rev higher? My KA revs to 7200 compared to a SR's 7500.

KA's are weak because they have poor flowing heads?Get your stuff straight bro, have you even seen a SR head? Weakest head EVER. Rocker arms are the best stuff...

Alot of SRs guys won't go past stock turbo with bolt ons and FMIC.

Alot of KAs guys are cheap and wont spend money on reliable stuff like ecu tunes or upgraded fuel pumps. (retarded base timing, stock fuel pump....etc)

Ive even seen KA guys complain about headgaskets costing too much. I'd spend 150 bucks for a high quality KA headgasket if they made one. SRs head gaskets start from 150 bucks and up.

In the end, spend your money right and either engine will be fast.
Modified by sunnys14 at 10:42 PM 8/7/2008

[nissanfanatic]

No, its a design flaw by physics. It is inherently a weak point in the engine. Try supporting 1000lbs with an eight foot two-by-four. Then try supporting it with a one foot two-by-four. One of them will break because it is flimsy, one will not.

........

Both of the Cometic gaskets I have bought have worked just fine. One of them worked just fine for six or so re-uses.

SRs can spin to 9000rpm or so with supporting modifications.

[sunnys14]

SRs can spin to 9000rpm or so with supporting modifications.

Yes it can, with solid lifters, valve springs and retainers, Greddy intake mani, cams... etc

A KA can rev higher with supporting modifications also, just a little more than a SR.

[ka-t 300]

noobs noobs noobs, OP you are are noob

I've built both SRs and KAs. They both have their ups and downs.

Any engine can be fast if you put your money into it.

SR's have alot of aftermarket support. KA's lately has gotten huge aftermarket support. So both have alot of good parts to buy to be fast.

People saying SR's is better because it can rev higher? My KA revs to 7200 compared to a SR's 7500.

KA's are weak because they have poor flowing heads?Get your stuff straight bro, have you even seen a SR head? Weakest head EVER. Rocker arms are the best stuff...

Alot of SRs guys won't go past stock turbo with bolt ons and FMIC.

Alot of KAs guys are cheap and wont spend money on reliable stuff like ecu tunes or upgraded fuel pumps. (retarded base timing, stock fuel pump....etc)

Ive even seen KA guys complain about headgaskets costing too much. I'd spend 150 bucks for a high quality KA headgasket if they made one. SRs head gaskets start from 150 bucks and up.

In the end, spend your money right and either engine will be fast.

Modified by sunnys14 at 10:42 PM 8/7/2008

This is so true, you want to go fast you have to spend money. Even top fuel dragsters get rebuilt after every run. This so crazy how we argue about this sr vs. ka. When you put more pressure on some thing than it was designed for it will have a shorter life. Both are good motors . I have beat many sr's with my ka. bang for the buck ka is the way. either way you go though more power = broken parts and more money

[nissanfanatic]

Yes it can, with solid lifters, valve springs and retainers, Greddy intake mani, cams... etc

A KA can rev higher with supporting modifications also, just a little more than a SR.

The KA will always fall short due to stroke.

[480sx]

No, its a design flaw by physics.

You better not say that to its face.

[ka-t 300]

The KA will always fall short due to stroke.[/QUOTE]

the sr has fallen short of beating my ka because of strock The ka doesn't need all that rev to beat up on the sr. I have had sr guys come looking under my hood after i spanked thier A** . They are both good motors that are built differently , Bang for the buck the ka is better than the sr.

[480sx]

He was talking about rev capability, and the ability to benefit from higher rpms.

Its more than just the long stroke, the crank was not designed for high rpm operation. At over 5500-6000 rpms crank vibrations start leeching your power as you can see on most any ka dyno. As you climb up the RPM range it becomes exponentially worse. These vibrations will also eat your bearings alive given time.

FCW crank and billet rods(and o/c the headwork..) for a high reving Ka, but at that point, you really might as well just choose a different motor.

[ka-t 300]

He was talking about rev capability, and the ability to benefit from higher rpms.

Its more than just the long stroke, the crank was not designed for high rpm operation. At over 5500-6000 rpms crank vibrations start leeching your power as you can see on most any ka dyno. As you climb up the RPM range it becomes exponentially worse. These vibrations will also eat your bearings alive given time.

FCW crank and billet rods(and o/c the headwork..) for a high reving Ka, but at that point, you really might as well just choose a different motor.

I understand that. the fact is that the ka can out perform the sr with out reving high. it has more stroke and displacement than than the sr. to me if you want a "beter" motor swap in a rb25. I have seen plenty of blown sr's as well. I have a built ka getting ready to go in soon with pauter rods wisco pistons and all new timing conponents for the same money that i would have spent on a used sr.

[ka-t 300]

And I do dislike most modern engines. I am considering buyingfor a daily driver. an S2000 I honestly do not understand why I keep messing with the KA. It is the exact opposite of what I see as optimal in all regards to design with the exception of structural integrity and cam over bucket valvetrain design. An S2000 would be much closer to what I would consider as a good design.

because the ka is better you proved it your self

[ka-t 300]

p.s. why is that without nipple, it's totally safe and not for legal for all??

You can show the whole boob, just not the nipple! lol

Just use your imagination a little bit and they will look the way you want them to

[all4sho]

not true on the parts for a sr you can get alot more than you think over here.

[ka-t 300]

not true on the parts for a sr you can get alot more than you think over here.

sr parts are more expensive than ka parts and in the end the ka has more displacement than the sr which = more power for the money