Please tell me why? (you're voting for McCain)

[Cold_Zero]

I'd really like to see this thread get back on topic. So far the only argument for why someone is voting for McCain is "his views most closely resemble my own".

So do my neighbor's. But I don't think he should be President...

So... its better for ME to vote for Obama because his positions DO NOT represents my views. Hope and Change are valid reasons too.

What I would ask for (and won't ever get, but hey, this is America) is just unilateral commitment from every single voter that, no matter who wins the election, the new President will be fairly and objectively judged based on his performance in the role. We have become such a society entrenched in sensationalist rhetoric that we start bashing a President-elect before he's even taken the oath.

And yet when I mention virtually the same thing I get scoffed at (not from you) and told "He [Bush] is not my President." And then charge me with "Being Bush's cousin." zer...age=2

People make up your mind.

[AZhitman]

You're selectively understanding posts again Greg. I was referring your rather clever method of calling a fumble a touchdown and adding points to your score for it. Your logic is not unlike a Barbie doll, at first glance it looks like there might be something there, but when you drop her panties, there's nothing there at all.

As usual Greg, It's great having you in a debate.

And once again, you're talking to me about a couple things I'm sure you've had little to no experience with:

Scoring touchdowns and getting a hot blonde to drop her panties.

[WDRacing]

*blink*

Wow.

Wow.

An online forum actually ... changed someone's mind?????

I ... wow ... I don't think I've ever seen that happen before. At least, I haven't seen anyone admit it before. I've come to believe it was a lost cause.

Welcome to the light, Brian.

Of course I'm voting for McCain....

BO has no friggin qualifications

I'm already getting people, friends and family, back on the right track. Since I may have caused them to sway the wrong way. I simply said, Google Obama qualifications and read all the anti Obama sites that pop up rather then ANY sites that list how good he will be for president.

BUT, I will judge the winner by his actions and not some preconceived notion of what he should have done. The good thing about this current election is that IMO we are in a win win situation. Since both candidates will do a better job then our current administration.

WD

[rn79870]

Brian, I'd suggest you divert some of your Norml money into investments in "war" related industries. That way, if your guy wins, you'll win too.

[rn79870]

And once again, you're talking to me about a couple things I'm sure you've had little to no experience with:

Scoring touchdowns and getting a hot blonde to drop her panties.

Greg, I honestly have never met a person who so successfully puts back-spin on issues. I'll bet you could even make the Bush administration look like they had wings and halos instead of their horns and tails. I'll bet you could make McCain look like a sane individual and not the hot tempered old phart he is. I'll bet you could even make Brian sober for Sunday dinner.

[rn79870]

Bud, that's an interesting find. Where are the middle of the roaders in this election year?

I wonder why you didn't put the shining star of the Republicans on the list - Larry Craig?

BTW, I got email from Sen Dianne Feinstein yesterday on another issue I'm concerned with. An actual personal response, (although probably sent by her staff) on another issue I'm concerned about. Feinstein and Boxer FTW!

[Cold_Zero]

That is part of the problem.

Brian asked, "Please tell me why (you're voting for McCain). "I gave my valid reasoning and all I got from Bob was, that's not good enough the War in Iraq is more important. And from Encryptshun, so your voting for a guy just because he most closely follows your views? Come on guys.

Because 'Change,' 'Hope,' and 'He is not Bush' are all valid reasons to vote for a candidate.

I have had a moment to reflect (with Valaam Brotherhood playing in the background).Right now this election comes down to:1. What Judges not only on SCOTUS but the Federal Judiciary will the next President nominate? To be honest, I want more Justice John Roberts. On a side note Justice Roberts has good Indiana ties.2. I think both candidates with the political views encompass two lines of thinking when it comes to the Federal Government. One is that the citizens of this country can't be trusted and that the federal government needs to keep them in check. The other is that citizens can be trusted and that the federal government needs to be kept in check. It doesnt matter what the political stance is of the 2nd Amendment, Governmental Spending or Taxation the candidates views on this issue of 'Trust' comes out in how you go about solving the problems of this country. One of the major reasons why I am not voting for Obama? Because he has little details, other than throwing crap loads of money at problems [Campaign Bribes to the People], on how he is going to fix the ills of this country. He is a lot of talk in the platitudes, I need the 50 foot view too!3. I remember standing in the parking lot of Starbucks prior to the 2004 election talking to Repoman about who to vote for President. GW Bush or John Kerry? I remember telling him (and he agreed) that neither were really the candidates that we preferred. I told Repo, you have to look at the base that each candidate will pander to. Do you want your President pandering to the Liberal Left? Or the Conservative Right? I think I can be comfortable with a President that I agree with 70-80% of the time that will probably pander to the Conservatives in this country, more than I can with a guy I agree with 50% of the time and panders to the Liberal Left. As a case in point, I like the majority of conservatives have disagreed with Sen John McCain, most recently on the Border Enforcement and Amnesty for Illegal Immigrants. And what happened? When McCain-Kennedy was being discussed on the Senate Floor, after the House sent its own measure (nothing close to McCain-Kennedy) the conservatives and the American public took notice and acted. This has been no different than Conservatives fighting President George W Bush for things that we so passionately believe in.

bud

[Cold_Zero]

Bud, that's an interesting find. Where are the middle of the roaders in this election year?

I wonder why you didn't put the shining star of the Republicans on the list - Larry Craig?

BTW, I got email from Sen Dianne Feinstein yesterday on another issue I'm concerned with. An actual personal response, (although probably sent by her staff) on another issue I'm concerned about. Feinstein and Boxer FTW!

Bob,I put/kept Larry Craig on the list. In the group that John McCain and Obama appear in is how it came up from the website. The other 'notable' lists were me doing some digging to give everyone perspective on how other Liberal or Conservatives vote with their respective party. I forgot Feinstein on the list but got Boxer on the list.

My track record is not that great. I have gotten one email back from a Staffer from Senator Bayh's office with a note to 'Call Us.' It was about CNN and the mass media showing the Al Qaeda in Iraq videos of them sniping US troops. I was enraged that our Media would even show that crap and disrespect the families. It can be noted that Senator Lugar's office didnt respond.

I even wrote a hand written letter to Rep. Julia Carson's office and got nothing in return. No literally. I got no representation in my Congressional District along with no response. How do you like that ?

[WDRacing]

Brian, I'd suggest you divert some of your Norml money into investments in "war" related industries. That way, if your guy wins, you'll win too.

For the record, I haven't smoked in quite some time. I do however support the reform of existing laws surrounding marijuana. If not the complete legalization, then just the state sponsored testing of it's various uses. But yes, I will always contribute as a NORML member.

I'm also sober a lot more often then most assume. I allow the label to stick because it makes it easier for me if people assume I'm handicapped. How do you think the Scottish people whooped the English so many times

As far as the war effort goes, McCain isn't a stupid man. With his acting General in charge calling for troop draw down he'll make the right choices. Even if it is a tad slower then I'd like. I'm not simply calling for withdrawal because I don't agree with the war. I just think we've done all we can and need to stop spending and wasting lives. So a controlled withdrawal under circumstances we choose made by the right people will yield the best results.

McCain said we'll be there for 1000 years...because we will. He just had the balls to say it, where as Obamalamadingdong won't say anything that goes against his..."I have a dream" rewritten propaganda double talk aimed at the ignorant, even if it means not saying the absolute truth. Which it is...History will always repeat itself. We leave troops in every country we've been at war with and always will. It's called Global Control and is actually written in our doctrine. The fact that Obamalamadingdong doesn't know this speaks volumes about his inadequacy to be our Commander In Chief.

I must have been under some extreme delusional fog to not see the facts for what they are. Obama can not be allowed to win this election unless you're willing to accept the worst kind of change...Good God I think Hilary may have been a better choice...I hate hind sight.

The black turnout may be huge, but never count out the WASP influence...and thank God for that

WD

[rn79870]

Bud, I fully appreciate that you have made an intelligent decision based on the issues you feel most threaten the country you love. I appreciate that you have considered what others have to say and balanced that with your views in making your decision. You've put more into deciding than most have. My problem isn't with those who have pondered the issues and made a decision, it's with masses who merely vote the republican line, for no other reason than the "R" beside the candidate's name. There seems to be a lot of that going on.

I disagree with your choice, but what the heck, it's a two party system so I'm going to be in disagreement with quite a few people.

In this thread, and the others like it, I've merely tried to bring into focus what I believe to be one the predominate problem facing America. That problem is war in Iraq and how we are going to resolve it and return to the business of helping our country grow. I would love to know how McCain really feels about this issue and what he is willing to do to resolve it, but the information I have gathered in that regard is not encouraging.

If McCain wins, I'll offer congratulations to him on his victory. Regardless, I'll continue to be part of the growing national movement that wants America to concentrate on America's problems, and not the world's problems.

rn

[WDRacing]

3. I remember standing in the parking lot of Starbucks prior to the 2004 election talking to Repoman about who to vote for President. GW Bush or John Kerry? I remember telling him (and he agreed) that neither were really the candidates that we preferred. I told Repo, you have to look at the base that each candidate will pander to. Do you want your President pandering to the Liberal Left? Or the Conservative Right? I think I can be comfortable with a President that I agree with 70-80% of the time that will probably pander to the Conservatives in this country, more than I can with a guy I agree with 50% of the time and panders to the Liberal Left.

That statement more then anything is the one that had me reading over dozens of web pages so I could make a more informed decision. That is what life is about and how things SHOULD be done. Make the choice that is best for YOU...not what someone else says or does. But do so after you've researched things for yourself. Never listen to the media...ever.

I can remember when the media actually called me personally a racist. I used to have the article. We were down rescuing people after Katrina. My helicopter, I say mine because MY name is on the side of it as the Crew Chief, had THE MOST SAVES out of ALL the USAF HH60's that were on station for the rescue. Its a major source of pride as a Crew Chief when your plane can launch every time and doesn't brake and you can literally save dozens of lives every time she takes off. Well we were keeping track of "souls saved" by making hash marks on the cargo door, similar to a bombs dropped kinda thing. Well there was a stick figure of a person drawn in black with 87 hash marks next to it at the time of the story. Apparently since I drew it in black, I hate black people. Even though military regulations call for ALL markings on a Combat Rescue Aircraft to be in black. The press runs the story and we get a call from the Air Combat Command, Commander saying we need to remove those markings immediately...

These are the same people spinning a web of illusion around an unqualified Liberal POS because he can speak eloquently and sings songs about "having faith and change will come"...oh it'll come alright. But it's gonna suck a$$ when it gets here.

WD

[rn79870]

I'm glad I at least got you to drop the "Hooray cocaine" sig. I accomplished something anyway.

Brian, the issue of peace in the middle east is far deeper than you realize. The mere presence of American troops in that region is sufficient to foster the atmosphere of hate swelling against this country. That hate will remain bottled up until it reaches critical mass and another 911 type event happens. That isn't my prediction, it is a fact that has been expressed by many experts in the field. 1000, 100, or even 5 more years in Iraq will only increase the pressure. You need to look at the issues behind the issues. If you do that, you will clearly see that McCain is not qualified to address them.

It is also apparent that the world opinion of America has suffered greatly since the strategic disaster we've seen in Iraq. I think America is seen in much the same way nations run by tyrants were seen in the past. Returning world opinion to a favorable status for this country will require more than a strong military. It will require someone who will listen and think. Someone who will negotiate instead of bomb. Those are skills that Obama brings to the table, not McCain.

Every person has their own agenda with respect to the problems facing in America. Even if they agree on the problems they assign a different different order to those issues. I feel the war, the decline of America's reputation in the world, and peace in the middle east as the biggest issues facing this country. Secondly, I'll call the economy a major issue. These are not the only issues, but the biggest ones, in my opinion. I've made my choice based on which candidate I feel will best address these problems.

What's ironic Brian is that you've yet to list a single reason why you had a change of heart? Was the pullout of troops from Iraq the only issue you felt faced this country? That appears to be the focus of your opinion so far. Perhaps you could address what you feel are the major problems facing America and why you feel McCain is the better choice. Who knows, you might even change my mind in this.

thanksrn.

[rn79870]

Bob,I put/kept Larry Craig on the list. In the group that John McCain and Obama appear in is how it came up from the website. The other 'notable' lists were me doing some digging to give everyone perspective on how other Liberal or Conservatives vote with their respective party. I forgot Feinstein on the list but got Boxer on the list.

Yes you did get Larry. I'm working on my reading skills Bud, I may get it down yet. Sorry.

[WDRacing]

Bud, I fully appreciate that you have made an intelligent decision based on the issues you feel most threaten the country you love. I appreciate that you have considered what others have to say and balanced that with your views in making your decision. You've put more into deciding than most have. My problem isn't with those who have pondered the issues and made a decision, it's with masses who merely vote the republican line, for no other reason than the "R" beside the candidate's name. There seems to be a lot of that going on.

Bobby...

You have to know that 90% of the Obama supporters or simply voting for him because he has "change" written beside his name. So it's exactly the same thing you are saying the McCain supporters are doing. The only difference is the people supporting Obama don't really know why...they are just grasping at straws of hope wrapped in a blanket of promises stuffed in a basket of lined with silk so the average on looker doesn't see that the basket has no bottom to it and will fall out as soon as any weight is applied.

Vote Obama...change will come. But don't say we didn't warn you first.

WD

[WDRacing]

I'm glad I at least got you to drop the "Hooray cocaine" sig. I accomplished something anyway.

Brian, the issue of peace in the middle east is far deeper than you realize. The mere presence of American troops in that region is sufficient to foster the atmosphere of hate swelling against this country. That hate will remain bottled up until it reaches critical mass and another 911 type event happens. That isn't my prediction, it is a fact that has been expressed by many experts in the field. 1000, 100, or even 5 more years in Iraq will only increase the pressure. You need to look at the issues behind the issues. If you do that, you will clearly see that McCain is not qualified to address them.

It is also apparent that the world opinion of America has suffered greatly since the strategic disaster we've seen in Iraq. I think America is seen in much the same way nations run by tyrants were seen in the past. Returning world opinion to a favorable status for this country will require more than a strong military. It will require someone who will listen and think. Someone who will negotiate instead of bomb. Those are skills that Obama brings to the table, not McCain.

Every person has their own agenda with respect to the problems facing in America. Even if they agree on the problems they assign a different different order to those issues. I feel the war, the decline of America's reputation in the world, and peace in the middle east as the biggest issues facing this country. Secondly, I'll call the economy a major issue. These are not the only issues, but the biggest ones, in my opinion. I've made my choice based on which candidate I feel will best address these problems.

What's ironic Brian is that you've yet to list a single reason why you had a change of heart? Was the pullout of troops from Iraq the only issue you felt faced this country? That appears to be the focus of your opinion so far. Perhaps you could address what you feel are the major problems facing America and why you feel McCain is the better choice. Who knows, you might even change my mind in this.

thanksrn.

I can only reply to part of this right now Bob, the other part will require some prep work on my part. So I'll address the, Iraq and Middle East debacle that I definitely DO understand.

The world hates America...at least most Muslim countries. It's in their religion Bob. Even if we leave today...all of us, they will continue to hate America for generations to come because of the history that already exists.

I don't care if the world hates me...bring it. I care about what is best for this country. The Iraq war is slowing and we will draw down...that's fact. Another fact is that we WILL leave troops there forever...period. Obama WILL NOT pull everyone out. He'll draw down...because he will listen to the people that are better versed and are his advisers. We will always have a presence in the Middle East. The sooner everyone accepts that the sooner we can get on with OTHER issues. We don't have to be at war when we're there, but we'll be there.

I fully understand how it works Bob, I think you are the one that may need to brush up on military actions and the doctrine the drives the machine.

I'll reply to the second portion of your post after I gather some links and material. But it's like Bud said, McCain's values and morals are closer to mine then Obama's as well as his "pandering" statement. I certainly don't want anyone pandering to the lefties. I'm almost always 100% against them...

[rn79870]

Bobby...

You have to know that 90% of the Obama supporters or simply voting for him because he has "change" written beside his name. So it's exactly the same thing you are saying the McCain supporters are doing. The only difference is the people supporting Obama don't really know why...they are just grasping at straws of hope wrapped in a blanket of promises stuffed in a basket of lined with silk so the average on looker doesn't see that the basket has no bottom to it and will fall out as soon as any weight is applied.

Vote Obama...change will come. But don't say we didn't warn you first.

WD

Brian it's more a matter of the populace being desperate for change. They recognize when a quarterback can't play and the team can't score. They want change, even it it requires bringing in a relative unknown. They don't want someone too old to move when rushed (change his position when it is in danger if failing) nor one throwing interceptions (playing into the hands of a failed policy).

It is really about seeing so many failed policies that a broad sweeping change appears to be the only answer. This may be a case where throwing the baby out with the bath water is an option.

[WDRacing]

I totally follow Bob. I was a supporter for a week or two...

Change could be good, but I don't think one person CAN enforce this overwhelming turn in the tide that seems to be promised. I agree that the machine is broken. I've been saying that for years now. BUT...it's the entire machine. The electoral college, this debacle of a two party system...everything from the lowest state senator on up needs to be unfvcked and reestablished buy the people for the people. But Obama isn't going to do that. The change I speak of can only come from the whole of the people over throwing the acting Gov. Only then will we see the change that I yearn for.

But until then, I don't want a Liberal running the country. But like I said, I'll be able to list issues and why I stand where I do after a bit of research.

[Cold_Zero]

If McCain wins, I'll offer congratulations to him on his victory.

rn

And it will be the same with Obama. And yes regardless of who wins, he will be OUR President. That is the process. bud

[WDRacing]

This is why I am voting for McCain...

zerothread?id=351546

[Cold_Zero]

That statement more then anything is the one that had me reading over dozens of web pages so I could make a more informed decision. That is what life is about and how things SHOULD be done. Make the choice that is best for YOU...not what someone else says or does. But do so after you've researched things for yourself. Never listen to the media...ever.

I can remember when the media actually called me personally a racist. I used to have the article. We were down rescuing people after Katrina. My helicopter, I say mine because MY name is on the side of it as the Crew Chief, had THE MOST SAVES out of ALL the USAF HH60's that were on station for the rescue. Its a major source of pride as a Crew Chief when your plane can launch every time and doesn't brake and you can literally save dozens of lives every time she takes off. Well we were keeping track of "souls saved" by making hash marks on the cargo door, similar to a bombs dropped kinda thing. Well there was a stick figure of a person drawn in black with 87 hash marks next to it at the time of the story. Apparently since I drew it in black, I hate black people. Even though military regulations call for ALL markings on a Combat Rescue Aircraft to be in black. The press runs the story and we get a call from the Air Combat Command, Commander saying we need to remove those markings immediately...

These are the same people spinning a web of illusion around an unqualified Liberal POS because he can speak eloquently and sings songs about "having faith and change will come"...oh it'll come alright. But it's gonna suck a$$ when it gets here.

WD

I was watching the House Hearings on the FEMA trailer debacle and one of the Representatives from Louisiana kept driving home the US Government failed the point of New Orleans, "Well except for the Coast Guard." I thought to myself, WTF there were all sorts of Guard and Active Military elements assisting with the disaster. I guess they failed the people of New Orleans too..

[WDRacing]

The Gov failed to take action on a previously noted inferior design of the levies...that is all. Were were there from day 2 on for resuce and assistance. Our helo's even drew ground fire from the the BLACK residents that were looting...and I can say BLACK because they were indeed African American.

Racial profiling...imagine that. Act stupid, be prepped to be called stupid.

[AZhitman]

My problem isn't with those who have pondered the issues and made a decision, it's with masses who merely vote the republican line, for no other reason than the "R" beside the candidate's name. There seems to be a lot of that going on.

...and my problem is that many assume, all too often, that those who don't agree with them do so only because of the candidate's affiliation. You do so, and you do so wrongly.

I'm a registered Independent. I've been a registered Dem and a registered Rep.

How many others even CARE enough to change their party affiliation?

Regardless, I'll continue to be part of the growing national movement that wants America to concentrate on America's problems, and not the world's problems.

I think that's something we can agree on. The journey and tools we choose may be different, but the end result we seek is the same.

[AZhitman]

I can remember when the media actually called me personally a racist. I used to have the article. We were down rescuing people after Katrina. My helicopter, I say mine because MY name is on the side of it as the Crew Chief, had THE MOST SAVES out of ALL the USAF HH60's that were on station for the rescue. Its a major source of pride as a Crew Chief when your plane can launch every time and doesn't brake and you can literally save dozens of lives every time she takes off. Well we were keeping track of "souls saved" by making hash marks on the cargo door, similar to a bombs dropped kinda thing. Well there was a stick figure of a person drawn in black with 87 hash marks next to it at the time of the story. Apparently since I drew it in black, I hate black people. Even though military regulations call for ALL markings on a Combat Rescue Aircraft to be in black. The press runs the story and we get a call from the Air Combat Command, Commander saying we need to remove those markings immediately...

These are the same people spinning a web of illusion around an unqualified Liberal POS because he can speak eloquently and sings songs about "having faith and change will come"...oh it'll come alright. But it's gonna suck a$$ when it gets here.

WD

This warrants re-reading.

Certainly not a President issue, but it's certainly a common-sense issue... and a left-leaning Black president (you're not gonna see me hyphenate people, so don't freakin ask) is a hell of a lot more likely to allow stuff like this to run rampant than a renegade centrist right-leaning White president.

Wonder how many of those folks Brian plucked off rooftops were Black, and how many of them had an issue with being a hashmark?

[AZhitman]

Greg, I honestly have never met a person who so successfully puts back-spin on issues. I'll bet you could even make the Bush administration look like they had wings and halos instead of their horns and tails. I'll bet you could make McCain look like a sane individual and not the hot tempered old phart he is.

Well, instead of speaking in euphemisms and dancing around a point, quote my error and correct it with factual info. You can call things "spin" all day long, but people who use that word use it in 2 instances:

1) Someone's making a negative seem positive (or vice versa) through emotionally-charged or feelings-provoking words...

OR

2) Someone disagrees with a "systematic dismantling" of their point of view and doesn't know how to respond so they point and call it "spin".

I'll bet you could even make Brian sober for Sunday dinner.

Now THAT would be a feat.

[WDRacing]

Now THAT would be a feat.

For the record it's Sunday 1603 local and I'm Sober