Please tell me why? (you're voting for McCain)

[AZhitman]

I corrected a few spelling errors for you Greg...

Wrong guy.

Far from ultra-conservative, far from an extremist. Ask Hash. You seem to respect his opinion.

Damn, my spelling got THAT bad?

[rn79870]

Greg, my friend, I'll bet you don't even have a left turn blinker on any one of your cars.

[AZhitman]

Also, If we are so concerned about the 'money pit' in Iraq and not getting an investment in return for our efforts.

Go to your local Western Union Kiosk on a Friday and count the number of Mexicans that queue up to send money back to Laredo, Juarez, Oaxaca... You want to talk about the largest transfer of wealth to outside the United States that may be tax free? That is money that is CERTAINLY NOT being spent in the United States Economy local or nationally.

Bobby can't do that where he lives.

They don't HAVE a 58% Hispanic population, up from 20% TEN YEARS AGO.

Yeah.

Imagine that.

I'll be glad to take a picture for you, though. It's like a damn Bataan Death March (with oomp-pah music playing).

[AZhitman]

Greg, my friend, I'll bet you don't even have a left turn blinker on any one of your cars.

LOL - I use my arm. Keep in mind, half of 'em are antiques.

Speakin' of antiques, how's my boy Johnny Mac's "Iraq Exit Strategy" look?

Scroll up half a page - Bud's droppin' bombs and you're dancin' like MJ.

[rn79870]

96, look at what you have posted...Quote »"So, what I want to do today is take a little time to describe what I would hope to have achieved at the end of my first term as President. I cannot guarantee I will have achieved these things. I am presumptuous enough to think I would be a good President, but not so much that I believe I can govern by command. Should I forget that, Congress will, of course, hasten to remind me. The following are conditions I intend to achieve. And toward that end, I will focus all the powers of the office; every skill and strength I possess; and seize every opportunity to work with members of Congress who put the national interest ahead of partisanship, and any country in the world that shares our hopes for a more peaceful and prosperous world.[/quote]An example of a paragraph of propaganda that really says nothing.

Other than that, you've not presented anything close to a plan. I ask again, what is McCains plan in Iraq. I've posted statements he's made in which he acknowledges his willingness to stay there another 5, 100, even 1000 years. How is it that he talks out of both sides of his mouth?

Greg...SCREW THE GODDAM WAR, BOB. WE'RE THERE. GET THE HELL OVER IT. YOU'D HAVE SUPPORTED IT WHEN IT STARTED TOO. LEAVING WITHOUT A WELL-DEFINED STRATEGY IS UNIVERSALLY AGREED UPON BY PEOPLE SMARTER THAN US AS DUMB.

That's a great idea. Please show me McCain's plan. That's all I've been asking for. Don't tell me that some poor individual that suffered torture for 5 years in a prisoner of war camp, and still suffers from it with uncontrolled temper outbursts is capable or rational planning with respect to an enemy.

[rn79870]

Also, If we are so concerned about the 'money pit' in Iraq and not getting an investment in return for our efforts.

Go to your local Western Union Kiosk on a Friday and count the number of Mexicans that queue up to send money back to Laredo, Juarez, Oaxaca... You want to talk about the largest transfer of wealth to outside the United States that may be tax free? That is money that is CERTAINLY NOT being spent in the United States Economy local or nationally.

Comeon guys. Dont come from California or Arizona, but I live in Indiana and I have even noticed this.

So you want to discuss the illegal imigration issue? Let's dispose of the war issue first, it is a far greater problem to the American people than a group of people who come over here and do the jobs Americans don't want to do.

[Cold_Zero]

Not in my opinion, Bob.The border and illegal Immigration issue is far more an issue than the war in Iraq.But we can wrap up the discussion about the Global War on Terror and the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan first. "I'm your Huckleberry."

[rn79870]

Follow each dollar. Dollar by dollar. Where it goes, whose hands it passes through, and where it "ends up".

Report on my desk by 5.

Right, all those dollars paid for "collateral damage" to Iraqi targets stimulate the American economy.

The costs of keeping airplanes flying, ships floating, tanks rolling all stimulate the American economy don't they - especially when we're borrowing money from China to finance it.

All the bullets, bombs rockets certainly increase jobs, or do they. How many of the bullets are of foreign manufacture. Check it out, you'll be surprised.

Now, let's talk about 1, just one benefit that the American people gain from the war. And the peace and freedom from terror argument has failed just like the effort to get bin Laden has failed.

Greg, 1/2 trillion is wasted. The American people got nothing, zip point S#$%, nada, zilch from it. Yet they are paying for it and will be for generatios.

Just how did the American people benefit. I don't think anyone can provide a rational answer to that question. At least, with a straight face.

[rn79870]

Not in my opinion, Bob.The border and illegal Immigration issue is far more an issue than the war in Iraq.But we can wrap up the discussion about the Global War on Terror and the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan first. "I'm your Huckleberry."

How far would that 1/2 trillion war debt have gone towards building and manning a security fence around this country? We probably could have built one several times. How many ICE officers would we have been able to hire to help secure the borders, harbors, airports and cargo shipments into this country? Instead, we're spending it fighting "terrorlst." I'm beginning to believe that RMDs are more dangerous than WMDs. (Republicans of Ma ss Destruction)

[Cold_Zero]

Bob,The US pays $921.8 million (someone please check my numbers, it is a guesstimation) dollars a year to run the UN. A den of snakes that works to destroy the United States and everything it stands for. What are we getting for this?

The point I am driving at is that you are Indignant about the spending of money in Iraq, all the while we are hemorrhaging money in other areas.

[Cold_Zero]

How far would that 1/2 trillion war debt have gone towards building and manning a security fence around this country? We probably could have built one several times. How many ICE officers would we have been able to hire to help secure the borders, harbors, airports and cargo shipments into this country? Instead, we're spending it fighting "terrorlst." I'm beginning to believe that RMDs are more dangerous than WMDs. (Republicans of Ma ss Destruction)

I think the correct term is Politicians of M*** Destruction. PMD

The simple fact is, even if we never went to war in Iraq, invaded and attempted to keep the peace, the United States would have never spent the 1/2 Trillion dollars domestically in the same way. A lot of that money has been cut out of programs and defense budgets.

[rn79870]

Bud, that is part of the problem. We need to involve the UN in Iraq and leave. World peace is an issue the UN should be addressing. I couldn't agree more that we are getting ripped off in this regard.

Unfortunitely, I've got to go to a customers for a few hours. I still have an income to earn, and trillions of dollars in taxes caused by the failed administration to help pay. I'l be back this afternoon and continue my fight for truth, freedom and the American way of life.

[Cold_Zero]

Isnt it 'Truth, Justice and the American Way," Superman?Have a good one bro.

[96Qowner]

Other than that, you've not presented anything close to a plan. I ask again, what is McCains plan in Iraq. I've posted statements he's made in which he acknowledges his willingness to stay there another 5, 100, even 1000 years. How is it that he talks out of both sides of his mouth?

Bob, I'm one of those people that think detailed military plans probably shouldn't be discussed with the American public, and therefore the entire world, including enemy strategists. A lot of people, perhaps including yourself, think otherwise. That's why you won't hear McCain, unlike Obama, telling us what he plans to do on what days, what troops levels he expects on what date, etc.

McCain is known for fighting the administration for more troops in Iraq, being against Rumsfeld and Cheney's original plans to invade with less than 200,000 troops in the first place. He thinks that political reconciliation is very important, and that once elections have been held late this year and next, the UN should assume a greater role in policing the country. He wants to press Iraq's Arabic neighbors to help by investing their ballooning oil revenues into Iraq's economy. He wants the international community to take greater measures to isolate and punish Syria and Iran for fomenting violence in Iraq.

Mostly, he doesn't think we should just walk away, no matter what, like his opponent has consistently suggested. McCain has never agreed with the Bush administration on its conduct of the Iraq War, other than something had to be done about Saddam and his decade-long nose-thumbing of the world community. Beyond that, he fought against almost everything Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld did.

I understand that this is not exactly detailed, but I hope you can fathom why.

[96Qowner]

Just how did the American people benefit. I don't think anyone can provide a rational answer to that question. At least, with a straight face.

I know it's more fun to be partisan and never let yourself agree with your opponent or let him alter your views, but I hope you'll take a moment to consider something.

We will never know what DIDN'T happen. We invaded Iraq. If we had not, what would have happened? We don't know. Therefore, we have nothing to compare the present situation to. What if.

Saudi Arabia is Sunni and Arab - Iran is Shia and non-Arabic. They do not get along well, other than the fact that they both oppose Israel's existence. Both would like to dominate the Persian Gulf region. Saudi Arabia is a US ally, Iran is an enemy. Iraq was no longer an ally after we tossed Saddam out of Kuwait. OBL has vowed to overthrow the Saudi Royal family. China, who desperately needs oil, has developed very close ties with Iran.

What if OBL had been successful in jeopardizing the Monarchy? 40% of the world's crude comes from the Persian Gulf. Saudi Arabia and Iran control the Gulf. How were we to assure that the Monarchy remained stable and in control? Where might OBL have gone after we attacked AQ in Afghanistan? Iraq? Saudi Arabia? Where would we base troops if we had to engage any country in the region? Would China have been interested in making things more difficult for us?

So you might consider the benefit of being able to ship crude out of the Persian Gulf. Don't assume it would have remained so if we had not put 150,000 combat troops into Iraq.

[AZhitman]

Bob,The US pays $921.8 million (someone please check my numbers, it is a guesstimation) dollars a year to run the UN. A den of snakes that works to destroy the United States and everything it stands for. What are we getting for this?

The point I am driving at is that you are Indignant about the spending of money in Iraq, all the while we are hemorrhaging money in other areas.

While I'm working, Bud's playing goalie for me - And scoring.

Bobby, DO NOT get me wrong. I don't disagree that the money could be spent elsewhere, and better.

I don't like Obama's plan for spending it. At all.

You want me to vote for Obama?

Here ya go - RIGHT HERE, RIGHT NOW: Tell him I'll vote for him as soon as he makes a campaign promise to get us the hell out of the UN.

Simple.

How's THAT for reaching across party lines?

[Cold_Zero]

While I'm working, Bud's playing goalie for me - And scoring.

Only if I can be Billy Smith from the New York Islanders. I know, I know that is blasphemy being a Blackhawks fan.

[rn79870]

While I'm working, Bud's playing goalie for me - And scoring.

Bobby, DO NOT get me wrong. I don't disagree that the money could be spent elsewhere, and better.

I don't like Obama's plan for spending it. At all.

You want me to vote for Obama?

Here ya go - RIGHT HERE, RIGHT NOW: Tell him I'll vote for him as soon as he makes a campaign promise to get us the hell out of the UN.

Simple.

How's THAT for reaching across party lines?

Greg, I love the way you call a foul ball a home run, an airball a basket, and a fumble a touchdown - all with a straight face. That's an art my friend, a real art. That's the only reason your score card is ahead.

[Encryptshun]

I'd really like to see this thread get back on topic. So far the only argument for why someone is voting for McCain is "his views most closely resemble my own".

So do my neighbor's. But I don't think he should be President...

Edit* I retract my initial statement. 96 did post some very clear reasons.

Apologies, 96.

[WDRacing]

Brian wanted to know why we were voting for John McCain.. here it is.

bud

Beautiful post Bud...

You're 100% correct to, I don't care why Obama supporters think McCain isn't the right man for election. I simply want to know why McCain supporters do in fact support him.

As of 1610 local on 11 July 08, I'm no longer supporting Obama. Not simply because of the last batch of threads, although they were excellent, but upon further review of the various stances that each nominee supports I find that backing Obama would not be the best for the United States as a whole. Even if it did bring our boys home from Iraq.

Not only that...but Obama is apparently part African American...I kid I kid.

McCain ftw.

Thanks for taking the time to explain your positions and why fella's.

WD

[Encryptshun]

When it comes to the budget, spending, and taxes, let's look at McCain's voting record since he begain his look toward the Presidency:

Yes - 5

No - 4

Did Not Vote, Absent, or "Present" - 44

Obama was only 2 better, NV at 42

[96Qowner]

*blink*

Wow.

Wow.

An online forum actually ... changed someone's mind?????

I ... wow ... I don't think I've ever seen that happen before. At least, I haven't seen anyone admit it before. I've come to believe it was a lost cause.

Welcome to the light, Brian.

[rn79870]

*blink*

Wow.

Wow.

An online forum actually ... changed someone's mind?????

I ... wow ... I don't think I've ever seen that happen before. At least, I haven't seen anyone admit it before. I've come to believe it was a lost cause.

Welcome to the light, Brian.

Don't start the celebration too soon. It's a big, big mountain McCain faces.zerothread/351297

[96Qowner]

Yeah, McCain is my man, but I'm not terribly confidant.

Black turnout is going to be HUGE, and the religious right, 4 million of which helped to elect Bush, will not do the same for McCain. I can only hope that McCain captures all the sensible people in the middle, especially if the media would actually VET Obama instead of worship him.

If people ever figure out how little qualified Obama is, and how little his supporters care about it, the tables may turn.

3 1/2 months to go - a lot can happen.

[Encryptshun]

What I would ask for (and won't ever get, but hey, this is America) is just unilateral commitment from every single voter that, no matter who wins the election, the new President will be fairly and objectively judged based on his performance in the role. We have become such a society entrenched in sensationalist rhetoric that we start bashing a President-elect before he's even taken the oath.

We have reasons why the current President is doing a poor job. I voted for him...twice. I will get behind McCain if he's elected; ditto for Obama. Until the new President proves he is doing a poor job, I will not bash him.

Why? Because we are all part of the same social contract whereby we acknowledge that citizenship in our nation means acceptance that the majority rules. Pundits who thrive on spin, lies, half-truths and propoganda not for the sake of our nation but because it gets them $40 million contracts and all the painkillers they can chuck down their bloated gullets AND hypocritical reactionaries who sensationalize trivial matters to satisfy their own urge for a "kum baya" patchuli-smelling milquetoast society need to STFU and GTFO. Last I heard, there's real estate for sale in the Pitcairn Islands.

I will be part of the solution. Whatever solution that happens to be.

[AZhitman]

Greg, I love the way you call a foul ball a home run, an airball a basket, and a fumble a touchdown - all with a straight face. That's an art my friend, a real art. That's the only reason your score card is ahead.

Better talk to Bud about that - I'd never call any of his shots airballs, fouls or fumbles.

Then again, you're not addressing his posts, so it's easy to label them as such.

[AZhitman]

What I would ask for (and won't ever get, but hey, this is America) is just unilateral commitment from every single voter that, no matter who wins the election, the new President will be fairly and objectively judged based on his performance in the role.

I will be part of the solution. Whatever solution that happens to be.

I'm right there with you. Well-said.

[AZhitman]

I don't disagree that the money could be spent elsewhere, and better.

I don't like Obama's plan for spending it. At all.

You want me to vote for Obama?

Here ya go - RIGHT HERE, RIGHT NOW: Tell him I'll vote for him as soon as he makes a campaign promise to get us the hell out of the UN.

I'll restate the above, since it got ignored on the first go-round.

[rn79870]

Better talk to Bud about that - I'd never call any of his shots airballs, fouls or fumbles.

Then again, you're not addressing his posts, so it's easy to label them as such.

You're selectively understanding posts again Greg. I was referring your rather clever method of calling a fumble a touchdown and adding points to your score for it. Your logic is not unlike a Barbie doll, at first glance it looks like there might be something there, but when you drop her panties, there's nothing there at all.

As usual Greg, It's great having you in a debate.

[Cold_Zero]

For what its worth:McCain has voted 88.6% of the time with fellow Republicans (Republican Opinion) while Obama voted 96.5% of the time with Democrats. Which puts Obama in the graces of:Sheldon Whitehouse RI 96%Frank Lautenberg NJ 96.3%Herb Kohl WI 96.4% (Founder of Kohls Department Store.)Sherrod Brown OH 96.5%Chuck Schumer NY 96.6%Joe Biden DE 96.6%Daniel Akaka HI 96.7%

Notable Liberals:Barb Boxer CA 95.3%John Kerry MA 95.3%Ted Kennedy 93.9%Rob Byrd 89.1%

McCain can be lumped in with:Wayne Allard CO 88.8%Larry Craig ID 88.8%Richard Burr NC 88.6Trent Lott MS 88.4%Lamar Alexander TN 88.3%Lindsey Graham SC 88.1%Pat Roberts KS 88.1%Bob Corker TN 88.0%John Ensign NV 88.0%

Notable ConservativesDavid Vitter LA 87.4%Orrin Hatch UT 87.4%Tom Coburn OK 79.8%Sam Brownback KS 89.7%