please help with crank bolt removal

[FriedEGs]

Egg's...... I know how TDC works, otherwise the timing belt I have put on and off a few times now would have never worked. I'm simply saying this seems like way more of a hassel than the minute it takes to hold the assembly to keep the motor from turning over.

Taking off the 20 bolts that hold both of the valve covers down, removing the coil pack, spark plug, then putting a rope in the cylinder. When its way easier to do any of the listed methods I used. If it works for you great. Like I said before its something I would never do.

And I'm not going to get past the confidence level of putting a rope in my motor simply because there is no need for it if you use your brain, leave the driveshaft attached. Put the car in 5th gear and lock your ebrake. Then another half dozen methods that also get the bolt off w/o putting rope in a motor.

Im done aruging about this, think what you want as will I.

ATpossible hopefully you can get it off ok.

the dude made it clear that the other methods haven't worked.... so, he's left to do something different..

again, you don't have to take your valve covers off if you konw how timing works.. plus you have to take the coil packs out to get the spark plugs out anyway, so that you can turn the motor freely when you put the new belt on.. otherwise you're fighting against the compression....

if nothing else works, than this method will work... it's not time consuming.. lol.. it took me 10 minutes to fish the rope in there..... you guys are just not comfortable, i understand.. but, you'd be forced to consider what i'm doing when nothing else works.. otherwise, you can pay someone to do the same thing for you.. because that is what they will do. (it's easier than taking out the radiator, the front bumper, etc, to gain access with a huge impact wrench.

it's time for me to move on... while this guy can continue to be stuck on something he shouldn't be.... All i wanted to do was provide some resources for this guy to use to allow him to move forward.. if he isn't willing to understand, than there isn't much more I can do..

i'm gonna go finish my stat's assignment, now.. than watch a movie a later with my friends...

atpossible, consider your options you're left with, and consult with some of your competent mechanic/science buddies if you need some reassurance..

[ATpossible]

guys i really appreciate the pics so much. honestly it was great to see it but yes i understand the 4 stroke cycle.

however the valves covers are off and neither lobes are making contact with the spring on the 1st cyl. which is the one i tried it on. so i know the valves have to be closed.

i failed either way and it was real hard for ME to get that damn rope inside the cyl. does it need to be some special or sturdy type to work properly? because like i said i tried it and it went right past with not a lot of force.

update tho...i broke a breaker bar today(25'') for one moment i thought i had it when i heard the pop that subbern bolts make when they are on tight but then a few seconds later the bar started to rotate slowly, making me think i "really" got it, but to find i was twisting the end.

nothing more can be said about that and my moral right now...

oh by the way im not sure the heating idea will work. here is way-by heating the bolt it will expand making it actually TIGHTER then before. that idea would work great if it were a nut.

this is becoming a real pain. thanks again guys for input but lets not argue. i just need help but i dont wanna cause any trouble for you guys.

so really from the bottom of my heart, THANKS!!! i WILL keep at it.

[Bluefire]

heat will help regardless... when you heat the bolt you'll be heating up everthing together. This is also a great way to get exhaust manifold nuts and studs out without snapping them. It is a common method still widely used, and imo much more reasonable than sticking rope in the cylinder. That **** is the most ghetto method i've ever heard...

-Bluefire

[gawdzilla]

go borrow a real air compressor (more than 15 gallons) and a 3/4" impact gun from autozone

[Bwana]

go borrow a real air compressor (more than 15 gallons) and a 3/4" impact gun from autozone

I have a 250 gal compressor and an OLD IR 3/4" impact and it takes the crank bolt out of anything, easily. Just a caution if you're still attempting to loosen it with a breaker bar, make sure it's well supported on the stand, or you will tip the stand over.

Good luck man!

[FriedEGs]

heat will help regardless... when you heat the bolt you'll be heating up everthing together. This is also a great way to get exhaust manifold nuts and studs out without snapping them. It is a common method still widely used, and imo much more reasonable than sticking rope in the cylinder. That **** is the most ghetto method i've ever heard...

-Bluefire

You should follow a race team for a season like that in American LeMans or World Challenge. You'll be amazed at the unorthodox methods used to keep cars on the track... What they do has to be reliable and yeild low risk to compete, espcially for a 24 hour race.... Ask any successful team manager or team mechanical and they will agree that what i've suggested is not harmful or risky. Most of them will prolly relate this to their own experiences in the past. Next time you go to a race, whether it's IRL, ALMS, amatuer, etc. buy a pit pass and just watch how things are done...and keep in mind that this is racing, the highest level!!

Seriously, any smart person that has the mental capicity to think things through will agree that what i've suggested is NOT unreaonable nor does it yeild any sort of risk.... I'm not here to insult your safe, conservative approach to problem solving, but in situations like this, you need to be able to calculate your risks and think critically... if you can do that on your own, or with the help of someone, you'll understand a little better.. that's what will get you ahead.. if you were in this same situation as this guy, you'd open your mind a little more to find a way to get your problem solved in a safe reliable method. (which I have provided)

Anyway, the rope I used was not very thick. Maybe 1/2 inch think at most. I remember using a long narrow screwdriver to poke it in there.. you'll need to be patient, because it will seem like you aren't getting anywhere, but after 10-15 minutes worth, and about 8 feet, you'll be close to the point of filling up the chamber and holding the pressure from the piston.. if you turn the wrench past tdc and the bolt isn't loose, back it up again, and add more rope.. keep trying it, and you'll eventually get it to work...

Maybe find a rope that is thicker, so that you won't have to coil it as many times, or have to use as much length... Just keep trying, you'll get it!!!

Good luck!!

[Bluefire]

You should follow a race team for a season like that in American LeMans or World Challenge. You'll be amazed at the unorthodox methods used to keep cars on the track... What they do has to be reliable and yeild low risk to compete, espcially for a 24 hour race.... Ask any successful team manager or team mechanical and they will agree that what i've suggested is not harmful or risky. Most of them will prolly relate this to their own experiences in the past. Next time you go to a race, whether it's IRL, ALMS, amatuer, etc. buy a pit pass and just watch how things are done...and keep in mind that this is racing, the highest level!!

Seriously, any smart person that has the mental capicity to think things through will agree that what i've suggested is NOT unreaonable nor does it yeild any sort of risk.... I'm not here to insult your safe, conservative approach to problem solving, but in situations like this, you need to be able to calculate your risks and think critically... if you can do that on your own, or with the help of someone, you'll understand a little better.. that's what will get you ahead.. if you were in this same situation as this guy, you'd open your mind a little more to find a way to get your problem solved in a safe reliable method. (which I have provided)

Anyway, the rope I used was not very thick. Maybe 1/2 inch think at most. I remember using a long narrow screwdriver to poke it in there.. you'll need to be patient, because it will seem like you aren't getting anywhere, but after 10-15 minutes worth, and about 8 feet, you'll be close to the point of filling up the chamber and holding the pressure from the piston.. if you turn the wrench past tdc and the bolt isn't loose, back it up again, and add more rope.. keep trying it, and you'll eventually get it to work...

Maybe find a rope that is thicker, so that you won't have to coil it as many times, or have to use as much length... Just keep trying, you'll get it!!!

Good luck!!

Im sure in extenuating circumstances, these unorthodox methods are reasonable solutions... but trying to break free a crank bolt from a motor sitting on an engine stand, does not even come close to constituting use of these methods. This IS an unreasonable method because there are seriously a million other more viable solutions to holding the crank still and pulling the crank bolt off.

-Bluefire

[Coolwhip]

i didn't get a chance to read the whole thread but as far as a method of removing the bolt (only if the motor is installed) you can disable the fuel or spark put the wrench and a pipe on it and have it wedge against the floor in the direction of rotation. Hit the ignition key on just to get the motor to turn just a bit. The starter puts out more torque than you think and can break loose any bolt. If this was already covered than my fault.

Hope this helps

[gawdzilla]

isnt it pretty clear his motor is NOT in the car?

[Tr0uble]

for future reference with the motor still in the car wedge the flywheel, put the breaker bar at an angle on concrete ground then with both front wheels off the car lower the car down onto the bar, weight of the car guaranteed to either break the bolt lose, or break your tools. Whenever Impact doesn't work for me I use this method without fail.

[ATpossible]

thanks so much everyone for your input and advice and all the things that have worked for you.

for future reference with the motor still in the car wedge the flywheel, put the breaker bar at an angle on concrete ground then with both front wheels off the car lower the car down onto the bar, weight of the car guaranteed to either break the bolt lose, or break your tools. Whenever Impact doesn't work for me I use this method without fail.

not sure it would have been enough weight. only reason i say that is because i know ive been putting a lot of force on that damn bolt and it hasnt moved

Torque=length X force and Force=mass X acceleration

ok i used a 25" breaker bar and my mass alone with gravitational acceleration would be...torque= 2' X 140lb which is atleast 280ft-lb and the bolt is suppose to be torque to ~350ft-lb.

then i had my weight and my girl's weight on the bar. which is like...torque=280ft-lb + (1' X 100lb) = ATLEAST 380ft-lb and it still didnt work.

all these torque numbers are UNDER estimated. i had to be putting over 400ft-lb on that bolt.

i will go talk to my auto teacher and ask for further assistance and i will try all the methods mentioned here that i can do.

engine is not in car.

i hope to get it done tomorrow. first i have to replace brand new breaker bar. wish me luck

330ft-lb.

[FriedEGs]

so, atleast you are able to hold the crank in place now?! You might need to find a 3/4 breaker and socket, or maybe even a 1 inch...

use a pipe, 4-5 feet at least.. leverage is your friend!!!

[Shocker]

ok not to sound like an ******* but your 100% sure your turning the wrench the right way?.... Ive done it once one a big bolt under a truck was at a weird angle and was all dis combobulated anyways... I didn't realise it until I broke 2 Snap on 1/2 inch ratchet wrechess.. just a thought...

[ATpossible]

no man no worries i understand i even asked that earlier.

ok im in front on the engine looking at the crank bolt and i turn to my left which would be counterclockwise. all bolts ive ever done losen with i go counterclockwise but this is my first crank bolt.

is that way right? because i just broke another breaker bar i had two steel pipes connected in series and i even bent one of the pipes a little.

serisouly guys what might i be doing wrong?

once again im turning counterclockwise.

please help...im sorry if i sound stupid but this isnt working and i really need help.

thanks again SO MUCH!

[ATpossible]

so, atleast you are able to hold the crank in place now?! You might need to find a 3/4 breaker and socket, or maybe even a 1 inch...

use a pipe, 4-5 feet at least.. leverage is your friend!!!

oh ya i got it to stay now. but im breaking tools and getting nowhere. ill try and source another breaker bar but i dont wanna break other peoples tools.

i think my work has a huge one.

[Tr0uble]

Get a propane torch and heat it up. Get it nice and hot then try.FYI I believe the front end of the car weighs more than you and your girlfriend (I hope).

[FriedEGs]

I just had mine off 4 months ago.. I'm pretty sure it was a normal thread.. (not reversed) but, I also zapped 2 other crank bolts off of inline 6 motors in the past few months, too. I honestly can't remember.. but, i know practically every other nissan is normal thread...

Someone really put that thing on tight.. I remember I just used my weaker impact gun at 130 and i was able to zap mine right off....

you've gotta try to source a 3/4 inch breaker and matching 27mm.. (they are not cheap to buy.. prolly 60 bux).. Someone's gotta be able to supply that for you in your area.. I'm sure that a shop with a lot of tools could work out a loan on a tool for some sort of colateral.. because, you're basically at the point of desperation...I'd even consider going to a tractor trailer mechanic or some place similar that works on heavy equiptment that will have a 3/4 or 1 inch breaker with a 27mm to fit it, without using a reducer.. best of luck to you...

[FriedEGs]

yea, i just looked through some of my catalogs for prices for 3/4 breaker bars..

Snap on: $290.Mac: $330.Craftsman: not listed?!!?

I'm sure you could find a decent one for around $100, but I think you're better off trying to borrow one on loan from a big shop..

btw, craftsman had a 3/4 drive 27 mm for $22. That might be worth buying..

[Bwana]

Pawn shops/flea markets are you friends when looking for tools like that....

[ATpossible]

Get a propane torch and heat it up. Get it nice and hot then try.FYI I believe the front end of the car weighs more than you and your girlfriend (I hope).

not to be rude but how does that help? won't that heat it up, which will cause the bolt to expand and make it tighter, causing my situation to be worse?

i only ask cuz im unsure but this is info that i thought was correct.

does anyone here normally have probs like this with their crank bolt? my auto teach said that 350ft-lb is alot but nothing that surprised him.

i realize some of you guys have it sound like all the crank bolts just came off? how many ft-lbs were your guy's bolts? im assuming similar since its just a reg. rb

thanks again for suggestions and the time you all r taking to help

[Bluefire]

Dude you have to realize that just because the fsm says the bolt should be torqued to 350ft/lbs doesn't mean the bolt you working on has been torqued on the same... For all you know it could have been taken off and the guy that put it on used loctite on it. But being more realistic... the bolt is probably stuck from rust, coked oil or antisieze on the thread of the bolt.

Heat will inherently expand the bolt, but like I said the heat will transfer to the washer and crank holding it so it won't make it harder to undo. What your trying to do right now is simply crack the bolt free from the other factors holding it there besides the torque. Heat will help to loosen up whatever crap is also holding the bolt in place.

Trust me i've had many a crank bolt stuck on so hard that a 200 pound guy with a 3ft snap-on breaker bar couldn't budge (mostly rotory and rb26 motors) The only way we were able to get it off was to torch the thing nice and hot.

[ATpossible]

alright man thanks for the advice ill see about doing that asap. i hear you on the rust. im thinkin that is one factor that hasn't helped this struggle.

its good to know its not totally uncommon for people to have probs with these bolts.

although i did try a heat gun before i "figured" it was prolly making it harder than before applying heat. not as hot as torch but still heat. however i dont think i had the breaker bar when i heated the bolt so maybe ill try again.

i also tried wd-40. do you think that might help? or torch best bet?

Thanks again so much.

[Sil240]

Umm I wouldn't heat up the bolt.You usually heat up AROUND the bolt.So that the surrounding of the bolt expands.Theoretically if you heat up the Bolt, the bolt will expand and get tighter in the hole.But due to the crank pulley being there DONT.

If I were you shoot it with some penetrating lube or WD-40.

Go to Autozone and rent for FREE a flywheel holder. And have a friend hold it for you.If not then buy a piece of steel plate rectangular and drill a couple of bolt holes in it and bolt it to the crank then wrap it with a towel and have the same friend hold it.

Also if you have the Spark plugs in, you'll get some of the compression to hold back the motor too.

Either get a Real gun or a long *** pipe and crack the bolt (not literally).If you still can't do it your FOCKED!!

(ps I didn't read the whole thread, too much bs to read in-case I repeat something)

[Shocker]

Basically Id do what he said as far as pinning the flywheel, get a 1/2 drive socket wrench even a 3/4 if you have one for the bolt size, make sure your using a 6 point impact socket for the crank bolt, get the longest piece of tubing you can find 4-6 feet long...... it will break, it was to. Make sure your using good tools to no **** harbor freight junk. unless its sockets. Anything mechanical make sure its good names.

[ATpossible]

thanks guys i think i will get it tomorrow cuz my auto teacher said he will come over and let me use his air gun and he said he would break she craftsman breaker barS and some cheater bars he has so it should turn out good since he has more experience.

thanks so much for all advice and input i will in the future take all these things into consideration and i have learned some things from the input that was given.

THANKS GREATLY!!! again and again

[FriedEGs]

that's the great part of tackling these projects on your own.. you learn soo much!! I know I have!

Good luck tomarrow!!

[turbot304]

well for me , I just pulled the E brake and stuck the car in 5th gear and used a cheater bar to get the dam thing off, though I have a fairly stiff clutch witch helped it from slipping wile taking the pulley bolt off

[ATpossible]

true. it sucks tho cuz my teach didnt answer the phone so i have to wait til friday since i have class tonight.

oh well im excited for when he does come over. i want this bolt off especially since im getting my car back today or tomorrow.

plus gasket and water pump are suppose to be hear by wednesday or so

well for me , I just pulled the E brake and stuck the car in 5th gear and used a cheater bar to get the dam thing off, though I have a fairly stiff clutch witch helped it from slipping wile taking the pulley bolt off

how do u manage to get to the bolt with it in the car? and with leverage? thanks for your time.

[ATpossible]

SUCCESS guys!!!!!

my auto teach came over and we used his impact but it wasn't taking it off...i think it helped tho

then we used his craftsman breaker bar and his cheater pipe and OFF like that!

he came to my house just to help me with this crank bolt and we were done if 30 sec.

how sad i couldnt do it but still awesome. im excited to finish the tear down. plus i got my car back today from the shop!

today was beautiful and thanks everyone or your help and support

[klh6686]

I'm excited for you man, remember in the future, if you can't break a bolt get a longer bar. leverage is your friend. I'm a fairly small guy, so i know all the tricks of the trade, doubling up wrenches n all that **** lol.

My fav thing to use as a cheater bar would be a craftsman aluminum floor jack handle. I say craftsman because i don't know if other brands allow the handle to detach as easily as the craftsman. Also, its around 4 feet long so PLENTY of leverage and the opening is plenty big enough for a breaker bar or ratchet or w/e you want to put it on.