Please Help! trying to firgure out if setup is correct.

[Rhapsody]

Im running a KA24DE-T i just rebuild this engine so i know its good. For fuel management im runnning megasquirt I V3 fuel only. Right now i have the car running and driving. It drives rough and hesistates and what not. I know it still needs tuning and stuff. Im following along Zig's (zerothread/279228) setup somewhat. Its got me at a good start cause the car runs and drives but not perfect. I would like for you all to look at my setup and see if everything seems fine.

For anyone whos following along with this post i'v put 500 miles on the new engine and made around 100 datalogs. Im only using a narrowband sensor tuning with MSTweak3000. Its got me a pretty good base tune while im not boosting, but now that im boosting i'v richened my whole map by 40% so that i will not be lean in any areas. Now i just have to retune my fuel map so its more fuel econimical. Later on im gonna get a wideband so i can get my map dead on where i want it.

A few pics for you guys to see what it looks like





KA24DE-TMegasquirt I V3 (fuel only) MSNS-E v029550cc rx7 injectorsrx7 TII s4 turbomodified log t3 manifoldCustom DownpipeNarrowband O2 Sensor (going to get a wideband later)hks wastgate (i think, check pic below to identify)rx7 stock bovno brand intercoolercustom pipingrunning about 8psi timing set to 18 degrees for 8psi of boost.

For Ecu



I can't remember if this is how i excatly wiried megasquirt up, but i will check it on sometime to make sure its correct.

i have stock ecu controlling timing with megasquirt controlling fuel only. You can see in the picture how i wired things up. The big red X are cuts. Because electricity follows the path of least resistance These wire have to be cut b/c it will not supply both the stock ecu and piggy with a signal, you will get bad readings.

For pipingI have stock maf plumbed as a pull type before the turbo and the bov plumbed right b4 the throttle bodie vent to atm. Im not sure if this is correct so any opinions on this would be great. So far im not really having any trouble with this but then again im not hitting any boost b/c im still under my 500 mile breakin period + i still need to tune my fuel map.

For Timing I must retard the timing some because im running a fuel only setup.Based on what boznuttz said timing should be set at 18 Degrees for 8 psi of boost.

This is all i can think of for now.

Modified by Rhapsody at 10:11 AM 3/29/2008

Modified by Rhapsody at 12:48 PM 3/30/2008

Modified by Rhapsody at 12:54 PM 3/30/2008

Modified by Rhapsody at 6:08 PM 3/30/2008

Modified by Rhapsody at 6:17 PM 3/30/2008

Modified by Rhapsody at 7:04 AM 3/31/2008

Modified by Rhapsody at 7:13 PM 3/31/2008
Modified by Rhapsody at 7:17 PM 3/31/2008

[WDRacing]

You won't find to many people in here running megasquirt. Not because it's bad, but because it's got quite a few issues that come with a stand alone ecu without a large following, atleast in the KA realm.

It's hard to give you advice on how to improve your driving/running because it's all based on your tuning with the MS.

As far as timing goes, I usually recommend 2 degree's of retard at 8 psi. That should give you some relative safety assuming you run 91 or better octane.

With the BOV vented instead of plumbed back into the system between the turbo and the MAF you're creating an over rich condition everytime it vents since the ecu has already measured that air and has added fuel for it. With that you have two options. Place the MAF as a blow through setup with the BOV mounted between the MAF and the FMIC on the cold pipe. Or plumb the BOV back between the turbo and MAF as it sits right now.

Both ways have been proven to work well. Hope this helps.

WD

[boznuttz]

28 degrees?! Nooooo.20 is stock, so just as WD said, 18 would be pretty safe.

[Rhapsody]

28 degrees?! Nooooo.20 is stock, so just as WD said, 18 would be pretty safe.

ya i just got confused with all the reading im doing. i have timing set to stock 20 degrees and im still under my 500 mile break in period. Im just trying to mess around getting the engine tuned correctly. so retarding ignition would be lower degrees and advancing would be more. Thanks guys one more detail that will be correct . Actually right now i have a pretty good base tune for idle/low end driving. I am gona go ahead and post everything here so we can turn this into a sticky for people who want to megasquirt there ka24det. They can use my experience to help there get pointed in the right direction and get it tuned decently.

[480sx]

Its a waist to run MS1 IMO. Your doing the same thing any normal piggy back can do with no problem, and going through a lot of hassle to do so.

If your going to run MS, go with MS2 for full fuel and timing control. You need a few things to make it work on a ka but its been done(by me, and others) a few times.

[Rhapsody]

Its a waist to run MS1 IMO. Your doing the same thing any normal piggy back can do with no problem, and going through a lot of hassle to do so.

If your going to run MS, go with MS2 for full fuel and timing control. You need a few things to make it work on a ka but its been done(by me, and others) a few times.

Ya thats what im going for right now is to run it as a fuel only piggy. Then later on when i feel like everything is how i want it im going full standalone, fuel and timing all MS1. The only reasons things seem difficult right now is.

1. this is the first time i'v turbo'ed a car2. Megasquirt isn't your normal standalone ecu3. I'm doing this for very cheap making things and doing all the work myself. I just happened to have and able to get these parts im working with by friends and stuff.

[480sx]

Last time i checked you couldnt run ignition with ms1. MS2 can be setup as a simple fuel/air control unit, and then you have the ability to upgrade later. If you can wire in a MS1, you can do a 2.

On another note, MS can be a handful. You really need to take your time and read the whole mega manual a few times over.

You could always sell the ms1 and buy a two, they are cheap now.

[krazydriver]

MS1 will run ignition IF you use the ms1 extra code(aka MsNs - Megasquirt N Spark). it also requires some fairly simple mods to the circuit board.

I have MS2 extra setup on my s13. Ran great, just a couple things to finish with my turbo setup and it should be back on the road in a few of weeks.

Zig and I threw around some ideas and posted some stuff up in a thread....Check this out.zerothread/279228^ late last night... didn't see you had listed it.

First things i would check, Is the RPM signal into MS steady?Idk what the impedance is on the rx7 injectors, so do you know if you have it set right?

Also a wideband would help alot. It's EXTREMELY difficult to tune megasquirt with a narrowband.
Modified by krazydriver at 7:44 AM 3/31/2008

[Rhapsody]

everything with my MS1 is working fine. I i'v had this car running spark and fuel on my MS1 before the car was turbo'ed. I wanted to get megasquirt all wired up and working correctly b4 i started turboing it. Now that i'v rebuild the engine and turbo'ed it i just wanted to start MS1 as a piggy and go from there. What i really need from you guys is if my turbo setup is correct like bov positioning and what not. Im gonna continually update my first post with new information so check it out please. If anything in my setup seems wrong let me know. thanks.

[krazydriver]

Yeah BOV placement should be okay.Basic rule is hot pipe is better for the turbo, cold pipe is better throttle response. For easier installation mines going on the cold pipe.

Being a MAF you will probably need to recirc or else your going to go really rich when the BOV vents.

[WDRacing]

Basic rule is hot pipe is better for the turbo, cold pipe is better throttle response.

Cold pipe is better for everything. There is no reason the hot pipe would be better for the turbo. The closer the BOV is to the TB the quicker it will be able to release the pressurized air when the TB closes.

The BOV isn't meant to assist throttle response, it's meant to keep the air from backing up and surging through the turbo's compressor housing. This also prevents additional lag since the compressor housing isn't being slowed by the surge of reverse flowing air.

WD

[krazydriver]

That makes sense. It's honestly what i originally thought about the whole BOV thing... but i consistently read stuff to the effect of what i said earlier.

and i knew the point of the BOV was to prevent compressor surge. but seriously thanks for clearing up my misconceptions on the placement.

[WDRacing]

No worries, there's a metric ton of half truths and semi factuals things written on the internet these days.

WD

[Rhapsody]

Another question for the books. Can you guys tell me if this is correct of what. i finally started boostin and i thought my wastegate spring was for 8 psi. now i hit a max of 10 psi on my datalog. im wondering if i hooked up my vaccume lines incorrectly or if my wastegate sping is just tired out. I have a vaccume line from the turbo compressor houseing going to the external wastegate. I think this is correct but not sure. please help me out with this cause i don't wanna keep boostin around when im hittin over 8psi. thanks.



Oh and one more things i love that megasquirt has a built-in overboost protector cause i set it to fuel cut hard at 170 map so it just might have saved my newly rebuilt engine .

Modified by Rhapsody at 5:55 PM 3/31/2008
Modified by Rhapsody at 5:55 PM 3/31/2008

[480sx]

Wastegate springs very rarely go bad.

Im not exactly sure whats going on here with your wastegate. The thing is, if you hit 10 psi of boost and your MS cut fuel, you really dont know if your wastegate is working at all.

So, your wastegate is sourced off your compressor housing, which typically causes you to run slightly less boost than your wastegate spring is set for.

-What port on your wastegate do you have the line run to? -Your just using a wastegate with no boost controller correct?-..Did you break in your engine? hehe, i had to ask..

On a sidenote.... Iv heard the MS extra code is awesome. I used the orig software that came out with MS2.. You just made me want to get my MS running again so bad.

[krazydriver]

On a sidenote.... Iv heard the MS extra code is awesome. I used the orig software that came out with MS2.. You just made me want to get my MS running again so bad.

Hell yeah! Boost control is in the code but takes a bit to setup properly, there's a new coolant temp rev limiter for forged internals, knock sensing works great, overboost, 16x16 fuel etc etc. MS2 extra is the way to go for megasquirt these days. the features are just great.

[Rhapsody]

heres a pic of my wastegate. I believe its a standard hks one. not sure though. I bought it off a friend for cheap. There is just one nipple on the side. i have a vacuume line running from that nipple stright to the turbo compression housing. Im not using any boost controller right now, but will later on. oh yea and i have the wastegate dumping to atm.

On the side note, yes i'v finally broken it in after i rebuilt it, 500 miles of pure stone cold throttle discipline.

Anyone who runs megasquirt should run MSNS-Extra not only because of all the nice options but standard MS has 8x8 fuel & Spark tables and MSNS-Extra has 12x12 Fuel & Spark tables nuff said right there. And if you have a little more money MS2 is the way to go. I bought my MS a year or 2 ago so it was alot cheaper to go MS1 than 2. Megasquirt just keeps getting better all the time now there is a pcb 3.57 with the MS2 processor which is awsome i heard.

Modified by Rhapsody at 7:23 PM 3/31/2008
Modified by Rhapsody at 7:24 PM 3/31/2008

[480sx]

With your WG set up VTA, you should really be able to hear it opening, and when its open. It would be uh, a lot louder than normal heh. Can you hear any change in the sound of the motor when your in boost?

[Rhapsody]

you know thats what i thought too, but im not really hearing my wastegate opening. It should sound like i have a hole in my exhaust when my wategate opens right? I wonder if it just isn't stuck shut. Last time this wastegate was used was back in 06. Im gonna use my air compressor and check that its actually opening above 8 psi or what not.

[WDRacing]

The sounds is quite clear when it opens...lol. I had that same HKS WG on my Skyline. Also a VTA setup, but I atleast had a pipe to direct the exhaust down and away from the motor. I suggest you do the same when you get the chance.

With the car at ilde, hook the vaccum pump up to the wastegate, pressure the line and see when it opens.

WD

[Rhapsody]

hey i took my wastegate off and took it apart. The spring is yellow, so i think its a 14 psi spring. Also i tried to open the wastegate with a pump but it wouldn't hold and pressure. I would assume it should hold the pressure?

Ok i just tested the wastegate with my air compressure and i was able to get it to open. so i guess its working right. If thats the case is there any way i can trick the wastegate into opening sonner?
Modified by Rhapsody at 12:40 PM 4/1/2008

[480sx]

So from the sound of it you dont have any problems at all. Your only issue is not having the right wastegate spring.

There is no way to boost lower than the spring is intended for. That is, if you have a 14 psi wastegate spring you can only boost to 14 psi +.

If you have any tuning shops locally, they normaly stock the tial springs. Faster than buying one online for sure.

[Rhapsody]

OK so i'v been dirinv that car around boostin and dataloggin. So far she runs and drives great execpt for when i get into boost. When i hit 10psi and shift it seems i havn't to wait a few seconds or else she will stumble if i shift too fast. I this due to me having my bov venting to atm and causeing an over rich condition when i shift? Or do you guys think its elsewhere.

on a side note - tuning with a narrowband is a *****.

[redhb240SXS13]

The stumble is definatly your BOV. Either recirc it or tune for the over rich condition.

[480sx]

Hes got a map sensor dude, no need to worry about VTA bov.

You really just need a wideband man. Obviously a tuning issue. Your pissing in the wind trying to tune a boosted car with a narrowband.

I wouldnt boost up to much until you have a wideband. Your really risking your engine, its just not worth it.

OH heres the best piece of info i can give you. LM1 has a wideband controller that costs like 150 bucks that you can get now. It has no ability to data log, cant hook a gage up to it ect. Its sole purpose is to send a digital wideband output signal to aftermarket ECU's that have built in WBO2 support. For megasquirt, this is all you need.

[krazydriver]

^ Opening Post

For pipingI have stock maf plumbed as a pull type before the turbo and the bov plumbed right b4 the throttle bodie vent to atm.

Sounds like he's running MS with the maf.... if so either recirc, or for better purposes just setup the MAP functions.

I use an LC-1 widband, with the gauge. Contact marty at injectedperformance.com He got me a good deal.

Apparently Marty and ryan share the NICO account. Here's ryan's [email protected]

[480sx]

Whoops, since he was running MS i assumed that he was using the map sensor.

Er, why dont you just switch to map? Thats one of the best things about MS, is ditching the maf. Your stalling issues will go away, and its much easier to tune.

[RCG_Savage]

Do you have the fuel map for the stock KA? I also have a V1 board I plan on eventually using when I turbo and would love to know the maps to use to give me a basic idea where to start.

[Rhapsody]

woah woah woah.. you mean i can ditch the maf? I thought that if im running fuel only i still need the maf? If so can someone please tell me how to enable the map sensor or whatever i need to do.

And on a second note i believe i do have the map sensor enabled. I ran the car w/o the maf and for some reason it just ran better with the maf on. So maybe its not enabled or something.

Whoops, since he was running MS i assumed that he was using the map sensor.

Er, why dont you just switch to map? Thats one of the best things about MS, is ditching the maf. Your stalling issues will go away, and its much easier to tune.

[480sx]

Well im not really that familiar with MS1 but i know that its possible(and thought it was standard for all the MS's..). Check your MS unit itself to see if there is a hole in the case with a spot for a vac line first.

If not you can buy a GM 3.5 bar map sensor and wire it up to the MS unit. You have to do your own research on this though, i simply dont know enough about ms1 to be able to help you out.

You are on the MSFI forums right? So much great info and intel people there, if your running MS you should have a handle on that forum.

After seeing your edit i just realized something unfortunate for you.. Since your running a stock ECU and using the MS as a piggyback im pretty sure your going to have to keep the Maf. Without the maf plugged in, your ECU will go into limp mode and you wont be able to rev past 2500-3g's.

However, even with the maf plugged in it should only affect timing, since your MS is hard wired into your injectors.. So your stalling issue isnt making much sense to me right now.

You do have a vac line hooked up to your MS?