PLEASE HELP. 92 Q45 WONT START STARTER SOLENOID SHOT OR MOTOR SEIZED UP

[cody_coyer_92Q45]

hey everyone,

before i get to my problem i just want to say im a long time reader of the forums here at nicoclub and from what ive read in the past every problem i have had has been resolved through you generous folks. so thank you so far. NOW, my car went through a 3 ft deep water puddle last friday. my girlfriend was driving, i was in the passenger seat. she got about half way through and got the front end out then the car just died. im in minnesota and its very cold up here that night it was like 3 degree's above zero. anyway, we boosted the car wouldnt start. i left it for a few hours while i was inside drinking, then we boosted it again. we ended up getting a ride home, i just got th car home yesterday. when you turn the key it just clicks like the battery is dead. so i took the starter off, hot wired it to jumper cables and the starter works fine. but i put it back in the car and it acts like its not turning the flywheel, i can hear the bendix coming out of the starter but its not turning the flywheel. ive narrowed it down to the starter. checked the starter relay, thats good. took out the starter and it works good. i think it could possibly be the ignition switch shorting out somewhere in the routing from the connector on the starter to the battery or wherever it goes, i couldnt trace it cuz it went over the top of the transmission. anyway i was talking to my cousin and he said that since the car was at normal temperature when i hit the water puddle and the temp of the water was only three degree's that theres the possibility that the temperature shift could have contracted the motor so much it seized up? that would suck. anyway maybe the starter is working fine but since the engines seized up it wont turn over. it is IN FACT an all alloy motor right? so next it took a impact socket and a breaker bar and tried turning the crankshaft in front of the engine where all the belts are and with all my might i cant turn it. is the 4.5 in a q45 such a weird engine that it doesnt crank the engine when you try to turn the big nut on the crankshaft to see if the engines locked up? im hoping so, i would be pissed if my engines shot, my car is beautiful and i love it. ohh and when i had the starter out it would work fine when i had juice to the ignition switch and the posts on the solenoid. but when its in the car it throws out the bendix but doesnt spin the starter. maybe the ignition switch is shot? i checked the fuse, thats fine, checked the starter relay, thats fine, when i hot wired it the starter worked fine. but when i put it back in the car it does the same s***! what the FU*K i am lost. i need some input, constructive criticism anything. is it possible that the car got soo wet in that puddle that it froze and shorted out everything. when im trying to turn it over theres something smoking and smelling electrical burning when its trying to start. its not coming from the starter but its somewhere down the block on the passenger side of the engine. maybe thats whats up? anyway im gonna take the starter back off in the morning and take it to the shop and run a test on it, i have a reman. waiting for me at napa. im hoping to god himself that i just need a starter and not a whole new motor. where would i find a vh45de in northern minnesota anyway? i cant find one in the junkyard anywhere. anyway, please help me.

[jimbyjimb]

Calm thyself my son. Probably just fried it. Keep it simple. Try the reman. If the puddle was in fact 3 ft deep the starter was fully submerged.

[cody_coyer_92Q45]

haha i know, just scares me thinking the motor locked up. im still wondering about turning the crankshaft. i mean i tried turning it both ways, turned it counterclockwise and i turned it so hard it started loosening the nut. the driveshaft wont turn what-so-ever. but the vh45de is such an odd car maybe it wont turn the engine like that anyway.

[jimbyjimb]

How fast did you hit the puddle, how fast did you travel through it?

[cody_coyer_92Q45]

well we were probably going 5 or 6 miles per hour. it was down a muddy driveway with deep roots from the other vehicles going down it. yeah about 5 or 6 mph when we hit. then she slowed wayyy down before she went through it, like stopped and asked me if she should try it, i was half drunk so i said, yeah go for it. and she creeped into it and drove through real slow. got the front end out and everything just died. the next day i looked and there was a whole bunch of water in the intake. so it was pretty deep. up to the bumper at least for water to go into the intake. so what im wondering now is why does the starter work when its sitting on my bench and im running power to it, but when i hook it up in the car it just throws the bendix out and doesnt spin the flywheel. i had it hooked up on the bench and when the ignition switch wire wasnt hooked up it would just spin the starter and not throw it out. but when the ignition wire WAS hooked up it would throw out the bendix AND spin it. so is there something wrong with the solenoid, ignition switch wiring or something in the ignition switch wiring under the car. i mean it does smoke somewhere down the side of the block. but its not the starter. i was watching it and its coming from above the starter but below the starter relay. pretty bogus

[Infinitiguy19]

Why in the world would you put a Q45 or any car for that matter through 3 feet of water, its not a truck?

But, I would check compression to make sure the motor really isn't seized, Because motors don't really "Crap out" because of sudden temperature differences. They "Crap out" because they are hydro locked among other things.

Trust me I know, my engine was hydr olocked by the previous owner in 1998 and they replaced EVERYTHING including the #7 rod that she bent.

Next time DON'T LET YOUR GIRL FRIEND DRIVE YOUR CAR AND DON'T DRIVE THE CAR THROUGH A LOT OF WATER.

Welcome to NICO.

[cody_coyer_92Q45]

lol i know, like i said, i was half drunk, she is a girl. it ended up being a bad night, now its a nightmare. how do i check the compression if it wont turn over? and how do i fix a hydrolocked car. what does that mean exactly?

[Infinitiguy19]

Hyro locked: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrolock

You have to remove the spark plus to check compression, but if you can't turn the motor over then you either need more time at the gym or its really seized.

[cody_coyer_92Q45]

well how do i get it to turn over. just put the impact socket on the nut on the crankshaft pulley? do i take off all the belts so it turns easier? and a guy dont need to put too much pressure to make the crankshaft to turn just a breaker bar with a cheater over it should make it turn right? and if i do that wont it hurt the timing chain? do i turn it clockwise or dont that matter. im not real familiar with infiniti's. im not retarded or anything, i just havent done much work on foreign stuff.

[Infinitiguy19]

Remove the starter and all the belts, it will make it alot easier.

[cody_coyer_92Q45]

k ill try it tomorrow morning early, i just hope like hell it turns. as far as the starter. im gonna wait till i make sure the engines not shot. how about the old diesel fuel in the spark plug holes trick, would i try that or wouldnt it be worth it? anyway if anyone else has any ideas please, i need all the help i can get

[Infinitiguy19]

Haven't heard of that, but I know that the FSM (Service manual) stated that if you have low compression, try some engine oil and see if it raises the compression. If it does then you have bad piston rings.

[cody_coyer_92Q45]

i hope it doesnt come to that. i mean the car ran tip top until she hit that water puddle, the rings wouldnt fry like that and it seams a little coincidental that this s*** happened as soon as it got wet. something else just HAS to be wrong. the engine was perfect, good oil i just changed it like a month ago, full on the dipstick. umm.....its gotta be something that happened in the water. if it got hydrolocked do i have to rebuild it? i mean, i had ice formed in the intake from the water that was in there that froze. its gotta be something minor. im religiously hoping so anyway

[GseaQ]

Well, a bad situation, really. If you got water in the intake (I imagine you mean the airbox?) while the engine was running, you may well have got the water into the cylinders. It won't run on water. If enough got in there, it may be hydrolocked with water instead of gas. If so, it won't turn over - just like it is seized, actually it is literally. Now, if you didn't bend a con rod trying to turn it over, all is not lost. You probably burned up the starter motor trying to crank it.

First, take out the plugs. That'll take at least 3 hours.

Then try to turn it over with the big crankshaft bolt CLOCKWISE. If it turns over you can move on. If it doesn't, there's really no point in moving forward with that engine. Let's say it does rotate. Turn it over with the ratchet or power bar on the crank bolt a couple of full turns, being VERY conscious of anything that might feel like a valve jamming against a piston.

If you're still good to go, re-torque that crankshaft bolt (critical to do this before you run the engine again). Drain and replace the oil and filter. Put a good starter on it and crank it just for a second to see that it will. Do a compression test to make sure you don't have a bent valve. If compression is way down on any of the cylinders, then that could be the end.

If the compression is good (even or close on all cylinders), new plugs and away you go.

Good luck.

[jimbyjimb]

3 hours to remove plugs? Travis the chimp could do it in under 3 hours. Takes 1 max, r/r. 1.5 if you've never done it on this car before, 2 if you're slow or not mechanically gifted. Other than the bogus time-frame he is spot on. If you got water in your intake you get what you get. The trick to going through puddles is slow constant motion, but fast enough so the water breaks and travels around the car rather than underneath it. Or, just don't do it at all. Sounds like you fed your VH plenty of the wrong liquid. Easiest test is to drain oil, water will be on bottom and will drain first. Good luck.

[cody_coyer_92Q45]

alright, i took off the starter and all the belts, removed the dust cover and took out the plugs. all in 2 hours. so yea travis the chimp aint got s*** on me. wasnt the first time i did the plugs tho. anyway the number one and two plugs are covered in oil? on the threads and all the way to the spark tower. hmm? what does this mean? if theres oil going all the way to the plugs then it cant be seized up. im goin back out right now to take the rest of the plugs out. but when i did plugs last summer there was oil on the number one and two plugs then too! idk if thats just the way it is or if it f-ed up. anyway when i took the starter and belts off i tried turning the crankshaft again CLOCKWISE and couldnt move the damn thing. locked up? hydrolocked? i mean im 6'1'' and weigh just over 200lbs and im not a nancy boy. i gave it almost every thing i had and it just laughed at me. couldnt move it at ALL!! any suggestions? i'll be back in a few hours

[cody_coyer_92Q45]

so it turns out that when i took off the number 7 and 8 plugs they were covered in ice where they arc the spark. so there was water in around the pistons and it froze and turned to ice. there is nothing wrong with the starter it just cant turn the engine cuz its all froze up. water in the block.................so now do i drain the oil? dump diesel fuel down the plug holes to unthaw it and free it up? help

[Q45tech]

Why the make flat bed trucks and toasty heated garages to conduct automotive repairs.

After seeing a dozen hydrolocked [water or gasoline] Q45 engines over 19 years...............everyone had at least 2 bent rods and assorted valve and head problems. The customers all insisted in paying for a tear down but 11 could not be saved and needed replacement engines.

Good luck but an 8.3% chance of success is not something I would waste time on but you may have the time to waste.

[GseaQ]

3 hours to remove plugs? Travis the chimp could do it in under 3 hours. Takes 1 max, r/r. 1.5 if you've never done it on this car before, 2 if you're slow or not mechanically gifted.

You're right jimbyjimb. Brain fatigue. That was total replacement time with the old '92 with TCS which adds .5-1.0 hr.

The oil in the #1 &2 plug tubes means the seals at the bottom are leaking and while you have it apart replace them and reseal the valve covers.

Q45Tech is right. If you were persistently trying to crank against 2 cylinders of ice, you should probably start looking for another engine to drop in. JDM takeouts are the way to go with this.

[cody_coyer_92Q45]

yeah if i have to i will, i have another vehicle to drive for now. im gonna unhook the driveshaft and pull it to my shop where theres heat. i just have it in my garage right now. let it sit in there a few days. drop the oil. new filter and fill it up with some sea foam and see if she'll turn over. i dont see how it could have bent any rods. when it happened the car stalled because water got into the intake. it hasnt been cranked over ONE time since then so if i let the water drain out and put new oil in all should be well right? i mean i tried cranking it but it was too froze up to. it was water when it happened that night. it froze where it sat and hasnt been turned a centimeter since. i think it'll be fine. but you guys are the pro's this is my first Q and ive only had it for one year. im pretty mechanically inclined and optimistic............which usually dont go together very well. but none the less. im hoping for the best, or there'll be one clean Q45 for sale with a seized motor.

[yodawill2000]

If it inhaled water that would be INSTANT hydrolock me thinks.

[Q45tech]

If it took just 1.0 second to die from idle [650 rpm] that 5-6 revolutions and ~ 25 opportunities to bend a rod.

Any more than 55 cc of water in a cylinder, a pint can/might fill [and bend] all 8 cylinders under compression. A liter is sure to do it.

[qship96]

Might as well just shop for a new same year Q in good condition and keep your current one as a parts feeder car for the new one- less headaches and potential true costs than securing and installing a new motor.

Girlfriend owes you alot of "face" time!!!!!

[goody90q45]

I'm going to play devil's advocate and say that there's been more than a few people on this forum, myself included (twice), who have had hydrolock from leaky injectors and not had their engine damaged.

You're only a few minutes away from getting all the plugs out. Hopefully you've got a garage so you can set up 2 or 3 heat lamps to warm the engine block up overnight, pull the fuel pump fuse in the morning, crank the engine and see what happens. If it turns over without making any odd sounds, change the oil and filter and see what you've got. Good luck.

[maxnix]

I'm going to play devil's advocate and say that there's been more than a few people on this forum, myself included (twice), who have had hydrolock from leaky injectors and not had their engine damaged.

Just depends on how many revolutions the engine is cranked, as stated by Q45tech. Damage is ensured if cylinder is full as fluid is non-compressible.

[jimbyjimb]

You have nothing to lose. If the engine is damaged you can't possibly damage it any more, so see if you can get her to turn. If you can replace plugs and see how it runs. Don't assume the engine's toast without running it. That is just plain AWFUL advice right there. If you can break it loose by hand give a few rotations and LLF look/listen/feel for abnormalities, if you can't find any put it back together, start it up and see what happens. If it hucks a rod so what? Buying a full engine is cheaper than a rebuild. Q's aren't expensive anymore. Anybody who gives advice to assume the enigne is toast and starts telling you to just buy another Q or engine without CONFIRMING damage is truly unprofessional and ignorant. I've seen engines seized for over a year weaker than the VH comeback for many, many miles after simply being broken loose and run for a decent amount of time. I have faith!

[cody_coyer_92Q45]

so the vh45de still wont turn. had the nibco heater under the car for a while now and the starters working but its not turning the flywheel. the motors stuck in it. i put a bit socket on the crankshaft with a breaker bar and she still wont turn. changed oil. dumped a bottle of marvel mystery oil down the plug holes and tried turning it and it still wont go. any suggestions? does anyone know how hard it is to take that motor out? or where the motor mounts are located?

[the converted]

Look for holes in the block or any unusual oil leaks. I think your engine might be done.

[cody_coyer_92Q45]

yeah theres no holes. and there was only water in the #7 and #8 cylinders. so.....its 31 degrees here and i think there might still be ice in the 2 cylinders preventing the car to turn. hmm....i might end up taking the motor out and putting another one in. but i cant find any procedure or manual for the car to do so.

[Q45tech]

Attempting to use the starter [with spark plugs installed] is how many rods are bent. The torque multiplication is signficantly more than can be achieved by hand with any wrench by any human.