pictures with my valve covers off

[elwesso]

As you can see, its pretty well caked with hard black stuff.... The valve cover looked just like it, as I had to use paint remover to get the stuff off..... I scrubbed for an hour, and now I can eat off of it... It cant be rubbed off, it must be scraped with a wire brush or a very harsh chemical....

Tell me what I need to do, regarding cleanup and what sorts of oil I should be using!!!

[PalmerWMD]

After reassembly:

keep using your cheapo oil (if your car sees garaged starts only) with weekly oil changes with ATF trick.

If you dont see garaged starts use chevron supreme in 5w-30 (walmart 1.14 per qt) which is the cheapest oil thats still good.

Use walmart ST3600 filter ( $2) at each or every other, change.

Dont use kerosene based flushes, as you have too much stuff left in your lower gallerys and it might clog stuff up.

Might consider a envirolution flush spendy but should safely cure your lower oil gallery's that you cant get to by hand.Afterwards you should ahve a clean motor as you got the rest that envorolution doesnt.

Fred..

[Rex]

Fred - Did you see signs of this when you looked in Wes' valve cover at the Oct Indy meet?

[PalmerWMD]

I dont remember, what I saw if it looked dirty or clean.I think his dipstick looked suspicious thoough.Or was that someone else?

I just dont remember.

Fred..

[nuQ]

can a very clean filler cap (and inside as far as you can see), along with very clean looking oil on the dipstick be deceiving as to the insides of the engine, like in wes's case????????? if the valves are that caked up, will that turn the oil dark pretty quick?????

[sultan]

man that looks bad, i hope mine doesn't look like that when i do the valve cover gaskets

[Q45tech]

Beat with nail embedded stick and use of electrodes on manly parts would be the punishment in lesser developed countries.

124,000 miles OH MY XXXX [or the appropriate prophet/deity].Obviously someone forgot many of the 40 oil changes [4 x 10 years] and didn't do many of the 7,500 ones either.

All it takes is one 10-15,000 or yearly to do you in.

Notice the discoloration on cam lobes and severe wear on the cam followers.

[Rex]

Beat with nail embedded stick and use of electrodes on manly parts would be the punishment in lesser developed countries...

Sorry, Wes. And you know it wasn't you that skipped the oil changes.

[PalmerWMD]

1)can a very clean filler cap (and inside as far as you can see), along with very clean looking oil on the dipstick be deceiving as to the insides of the engine, like in wes's case????????? 2)if the valves are that caked up, will that turn the oil dark pretty quick?????

1) Not usually.2) Only if you use a high detergent oil.

Fred..

[docsmile71]

yuck...that looks bad. Another reason to go with Mobil 1 every 5000 miles.

[Altiman94]

agreed. That does look pretty bad wes. Try some seafoam and some atf.

[elwesso]

Curses.... Does this mean my engine is going to have a much lesser life, or what does this mean!!!

*saddened to see that a engine like this went to waste because a cheap lawyer couldnt change the oil every 5000 miles*

Is all the sludge really hurting anything??? Ill probably end up doing an engine flush sometime..... Is it possible I could make it worse by doing that.....?

Also, I decided not to reseal the passenger side (it doesnt really need it)... Bad idea??

[Q45tech]

All that sludge usually means the rod bearings have seen better days.Whether that amount of abuse took 50 k or 100k off the ultimate life is hard to gauge without disassembly.I have seen then with the oil light coming on at 134,000 miles.Clean all the sludge up and report your hot idle oil pressure with brand new oil and filter................at 120k it should be better than 17 psi, mine is still 15-16 psi with 260,000 miles.

When you start seeing below 14 psi you know the bearings are getting iffy!

[elwesso]

Is the best way to clean the sludge with the ATF trick with weekly oil changes, filter every other or 3rd..? Or will I need to take a different course of action since mine seems to be worse than others......

WHatever the case is, I need your complete advise on what I should do...

Will it make a difference if my drivers side valve cover is spotless and the passenger side is still gunky...??

[Jesda]

Bwahahhaha! I feel so much better now about my strong 92 Q at 183k. Its enjoyed a good exercise of M1 ATF and synthetic oil.

For sale, any takers? Price drop, $3990.

-Jesda

[Q451990]

[quote=" elwesso [BAlso, I decided not to reseal the passenger side (it doesnt really need it)... Bad idea??[/quote]

If it doesn't need it, I'd let it go for a while. After you do whatever cleaning process you do, then pull that side to check your progress... Man that's a tough one - I'd just err on the side of caution on how agressive you want to be on the cleaning. Lots of small steps will be better than a strong flush that dumps all of that stuff in your strainer and clogs it! I'd defintely think about the envirolution flush. Might be cheaper in the long run.

Heath

[SmoothCriminal]

I've worked on many a VH45DE during my stint as a technician but that's about as bad as it gets. That previous owner really put a beatdown on that engine. Can't really tell from the picture, but is there some scoring on the cam lobes?

[SmoothCriminal]

I've had good experiences with running a thin oils like a 5w20 weight for a few minutes before replacing it with my usual 10w40 grade. It's cheap and more convenient than tracking down specialized engine flush products. I down a bottle of BG44K every 15K miles to boot. Over time, you will definitely see the results.

[Q45tech]

Bg 44k is designed for use prior to every oil change [90 days] to clean injectors of the crud the previous 4,000 miles created.

If it took 10 years of poor habits to get in that condition, don't think that a few oil changes will clear [that picture up]. Maybe a year and thousands worth of work............then you have a clean worn out engine............you can't heal anything with chemicals.Regardless of what they promise on TV.

The sludge has blocked/restricted the oil flow to critical components.

Self limit the redline below the 6900 rpm norm as the bearings and rod bolts will last longer..........never again exceed 6,000 rpm.

That much sulge will fill and block 2 dozen oil filters, think of it as hard asphalt on the highway........even gasoline has a hard time melting it as it is mostly CARBON from the destruction of the oil.

If you were to remove cams you would see that the cam bearings are severely damaged/scored.

[elwesso]

Well.... I'll definitely look into one of those engine flushes..... It would probably be easier <and just as effective> than doing weekly oil changes for a year....

[PalmerWMD]

Dont do a kerosene based flush while you are this dirty ( you cleaned all you could get to right?)

You may knock off too much sludge and block oil flow, which means frequent removel of oil pan which is tons of labor again and again.

Do frequent oil changes w/ ATF and cheap but decent oil/filter ( chevron supreme+ST3600 walmart filter.And you will see some results.

Combine with the envirolution engine flush ( safe with machine hooked up) and you shouldnt be off too badly.

There could easily be well over 100k left in engine.

Fred...

[elwesso]

I cleaned off the valve covers as best as I could, but I didnt touch the heads....

I think maybe I'll start that weekly oil changes for a few months and then look into an enginle flush...

Im still gonna be up at my shop through the week, so maybe I'll do a few daily oil changes (drive for 10 miles with ATF gently) and then drain and refill.... Might as well while I have unlimited cheap oil.....

[Q45tech]

We see lots of sludge on high mileage G20 [with poor oil habits] because the head is level atop the engine vs V6/V8 which are angled to drain better.

When they start making squeeking noises we change the cams and clean polish the cam bearings install new cam bering caps and grind out the head tops with wire brush/drill......change the cam followers, soak the valve covers in acid repaint them.............and tell the owner to sell the car............or drive it till it blows, learn to live with the blue smoke...............a $1200 clean up.

Many drive them awhile [like a year] and come back looking to do a $3,000- $3500 JDM engine swap.

Luckily the V8 is a little more robust in absorbing abuse.

Measuring the oil pressure with a dirty head will fool you because the decreased upper flow offsets the greater bearing flow caused by excessive clearances from wear. You gotta clean upthe heads and look under the cams bearings before a oil pressiure reading is valid.

[elwesso]

Would I really decrease my engine life if I just forgot about it and just started (well continued) doing 90 day oil changes....?

Would I really be benefitting by cleaning it up???

[PalmerWMD]

1)Would I really decrease my engine life if I just forgot about it and just started (well continued) doing 90 day oil changes....?

2)Would I really be benefitting by cleaning it up???

1) Hard to say probably, but maybe not these things are difficult to predict.2)Yes.

From now on its probably best for u to stick to oils that have high known detergency ( Valvoline Durablend in 10w-30 , thinner than the usualy 40 weight recommendation, for better flow in dirty galleries))Or oil that's real cheap and still good, as in Chevron Supreme in 10w-30 or 5w-30, for frequent changes.In a few month when your confidence in reasonable cleanliness isn restored switch bakc to synthetic.In my experience, while M1 is good in preventing slidge in first place its not a real good cleaning oil, in Syn's, SynPower 5w-40 will probably be a good idea for you.

Fred...

[Q45denver]

Mine looked like Elwesso's with about the same mileage and just before I replaced the timing chains. It threw a rod a short while latter but I attributed it to an earlier overheating condition. The Jap takeout I installed was immaculate, however. Will synthetic oil sludge up like this with yearly oil change and twice yearly filter change? I only drive about 10000 miles a year and was in process of installing an Amsoil bypass filter.

[90Q45blue]

I honestly think that on such a nice car and such a great engine, it's a bargain to only have to spend $60-$70 every 3 months for a MOBIL 1 oil change. Remember what the professor (Dennis) says, look at the repairs as a car payment. Spending less than $250-300 a month is still a great deal for a $60,000 car.

Nick

[PalmerWMD]

1)The Jap takeout I installed was immaculate, however. 2)Will synthetic oil sludge up like this with yearly oil change and twice yearly filter change? 3)I only drive about 10000 miles a year and was in process of installing an Amsoil bypass filter.

1)Good news, where did you buy it?2)Synthetic oil is very sludging resistant. But yearly oil changes are too few in my opnion. You have a nice clean engine why risk it? Even with Syn oil an extra oil change or 2 per year is small change.3) Even so once a year is too few.

Fred..

[Q45denver]

1. I installed the Jap engine about 2 years ago-The dealer provided free labor. I had the car almost five years.2. I have been changing about twice a year. The oil does not get very dirty between changes-nothing like it did with the old engine. 3. I did intend to have the oil tested yearly after installing the bypass filter. Some on Amsoil website claim that they never change the oil, just the filters, however, I would use their highest quality oil and filters and change it at least yearly. Sludge is my main concern and I would not back to dino oil.

[nuQ]

is amsoil that much better than mobil 1?? i have a dealer right down the street. what is a by-pass filter and what are the benefits. i know most on this site don't use amsoil, is there a reason????