No kidding?
That would increase tire diameter by 10.25mm or ~5mm on each side. So that would bring the tread closer to the well. A little trig could solve it but I'd guess there is another 5mm there. So 8" +35 with 235/45/17 should fit the front no problem. And a 9" + 40 with 255/40/17 will fit the rear. A 235 on a +25 should be close but might work. I wonder how much room is under the plastic?
Even with the extra 5mm on the front, I don't know why everyone likes the lower offset. A 8" rim with a +35 will come outward 30mm and a 9" +40 will come outward over 40mm. How can these look "sunk"?
If anything they should stick out a little.
Perfect S13 Wheels & Tires
actually the 205/65 is about 20.3mm taller than the 205/60, remember you have 2 sidewalls not one in the overall diameter
and yes only half of that is up near the fender, the other half is on the ground, but remember that extra 10.xx is also pushing the tire up that much more, so the top of the tire will still be 20.3mm taller at the top
my wheels are right about even with the fender, its only 1mm more sunken in of course with the +35 but its still apparent
it still looks fine, not my preference but theres people on here who love it, i wouldnt go any higher than +35 on an 8 though
heres a side profile of what the x8 +35 looks like, this is actually a x7.5 +30 but the difference is 1mm, so youll never tell
this is a 215/45/17 by the way
and yes only half of that is up near the fender, the other half is on the ground, but remember that extra 10.xx is also pushing the tire up that much more, so the top of the tire will still be 20.3mm taller at the top
my wheels are right about even with the fender, its only 1mm more sunken in of course with the +35 but its still apparent
it still looks fine, not my preference but theres people on here who love it, i wouldnt go any higher than +35 on an 8 though
heres a side profile of what the x8 +35 looks like, this is actually a x7.5 +30 but the difference is 1mm, so youll never tell
this is a 215/45/17 by the way
Re: (nismofly)
is that all 4? A 255 on the rear would stick out 20mm more 10mm if I stay with a +40 offset.
Where do people get this "sunk in" stuff? Are they thinking of a 215?
On the front I am concerned with the wheel well straight back behind the tire. As the tire sweeps back and forth, there is a spot where the outer edge of the tire tread gets real close. If you turn them 45 degrees toward you you'll see what I mean. You want to be standing inside what would be the radius of the turn, not outside. If you are on the outside, go to the other side of the car.
Where do people get this "sunk in" stuff? Are they thinking of a 215?
On the front I am concerned with the wheel well straight back behind the tire. As the tire sweeps back and forth, there is a spot where the outer edge of the tire tread gets real close. If you turn them 45 degrees toward you you'll see what I mean. You want to be standing inside what would be the radius of the turn, not outside. If you are on the outside, go to the other side of the car.
once again though youre thinking in terms of the tire instead of the wheel, that offset of +30 is on a 7.5 inch wide wheel, so youre thinking would be that a 255 tire on a 7.5 +40, but since you should be running a x9 in the rear since youll have a x8 in the front, the x9 +35 is equal to a 17x8 +22, if you want a x9 to be equal to the x7.5 +30 so it will stick out as far as you think, youd have to run a 17x9 +49, but in this case youd be forgetting the inside of the wheel, which wont clear with that kind of offset
in that pic all 4 have the 215, your wheel will be sticking out 14mm more than what you see in that picture with a 255, and because it would be on a 9" wheel instead of a 7.5" the tire will actually stick out 1mm on either side, so your rears would stick out 15mm more than these, your rear x9 +35 would be equivalent to a 17x8 +22, so no they wouldnt be sunken anymore
if im looking at what youre thinking with this clearance part, you wouldnt have to worry about rubbing that as long as you didnt increase the overall diameter with the tire, and remember your tires are actually bigger than what these will be by almost an inch, so since yours will actually be decreasing with the sizes ive been listing you definately wont have to worry, its not until you go wider than a 235 in the front anything becomes a factor
if thats as confusing to you as it was to me, youll have questions, but basically at this point im still trying to convince you that the setup i originally told you still is going to work
in that pic all 4 have the 215, your wheel will be sticking out 14mm more than what you see in that picture with a 255, and because it would be on a 9" wheel instead of a 7.5" the tire will actually stick out 1mm on either side, so your rears would stick out 15mm more than these, your rear x9 +35 would be equivalent to a 17x8 +22, so no they wouldnt be sunken anymore
if im looking at what youre thinking with this clearance part, you wouldnt have to worry about rubbing that as long as you didnt increase the overall diameter with the tire, and remember your tires are actually bigger than what these will be by almost an inch, so since yours will actually be decreasing with the sizes ive been listing you definately wont have to worry, its not until you go wider than a 235 in the front anything becomes a factor
if thats as confusing to you as it was to me, youll have questions, but basically at this point im still trying to convince you that the setup i originally told you still is going to work
Re: (nismofly)
I see what you're saying and I think a 235 on a 8" +35 will work.
I'm kind of trying to get accross, for no good reason other than the benefit of all, and to be sure my reason holds water, that the wheels size is not really relevant unless the wheel itself will hit.
The center of a tire, say 225 that is on any size wheel is always in the same position for a given offset.
The bead portion can shrink or stetch but the tread will always center on the wheel and the wheel center is denoted by offset.
Let's say you have a 6" wheel with a 0 offset. The wheel is centered on the hub. The tire is also centered on the hub because it's centerd on the wheel. There is 112.5mm from center of the tire to edge. Now say you put the same tire on an 8" rim with a 0 offset. Where is the center of the tire?
Answer: in the exact same spot - 112.5mm from each tread edge. The tire position does not change. All that happens is that the tire bead flexes.
Now put in a 5mm spacer. Each rim moves its center, and the tire's center out 5mm. No matter what size wheel, the tread center is now shifted 5mm.
See what I'm saying? If you calculate the wheel, you are only measuring sidewall flex. The error in your calculations is in shifting the tread width to either side of the rim based on the change in rim size. The tread does not move with the rim width - it stays in the center.
True wheel size matters if that is where it will hit. On my car I don't see any wheel clearance issues.
If this still isn't clear, try drawing a diagram and you will get a big "ah ha."
Remember, everything is measured from the center and the tire doesn't shift.
All this being said, I think 8" +35 with 235/45/17 and 9" +40 255/40/17 would look awsome.
What do you think about that?
I'm kind of trying to get accross, for no good reason other than the benefit of all, and to be sure my reason holds water, that the wheels size is not really relevant unless the wheel itself will hit.
The center of a tire, say 225 that is on any size wheel is always in the same position for a given offset.
The bead portion can shrink or stetch but the tread will always center on the wheel and the wheel center is denoted by offset.
Let's say you have a 6" wheel with a 0 offset. The wheel is centered on the hub. The tire is also centered on the hub because it's centerd on the wheel. There is 112.5mm from center of the tire to edge. Now say you put the same tire on an 8" rim with a 0 offset. Where is the center of the tire?
Answer: in the exact same spot - 112.5mm from each tread edge. The tire position does not change. All that happens is that the tire bead flexes.
Now put in a 5mm spacer. Each rim moves its center, and the tire's center out 5mm. No matter what size wheel, the tread center is now shifted 5mm.
See what I'm saying? If you calculate the wheel, you are only measuring sidewall flex. The error in your calculations is in shifting the tread width to either side of the rim based on the change in rim size. The tread does not move with the rim width - it stays in the center.
True wheel size matters if that is where it will hit. On my car I don't see any wheel clearance issues.
If this still isn't clear, try drawing a diagram and you will get a big "ah ha."
Remember, everything is measured from the center and the tire doesn't shift.
All this being said, I think 8" +35 with 235/45/17 and 9" +40 255/40/17 would look awsome.
What do you think about that?
lets get one thing clear ok...i know what offset is, its not a hard concept at all, youve said the same thing for multiple posts, and each time i say "yes, but thats not what im saying"...each time you come back and explain offset again
that being said...i think were finally getting on the same page on the setup
this was the first time you actually said "17x9 +40" in the rear, before you were either saying "17x9" or "+40 offset"
basically youre making assumptions that im reading your mind, the post above you were mentioning that setup and putting a 255 on with a +40...yes it will stick out 10mm more, but i thought you were saying you were going to run a 255 on a 7.5 inch wheel, which wont happen
basically the only difference between the 2 of us after all this is, i said run a 17x8 +25 / 17x9 +35, youre saying run a 17x8 +35 / 17x9 +40...its basically personal preference, theyll both clear fine, theres no issues with either setup
the only difference is my setup would sit out a little farther
also, if you change offset, youre not just changing sidewall flex
width of the wheel and width of the tire are the only things that affect sidewall flex, the offset, as youve mentioned, is how far out it sits
yes, depending on the width of the wheel, the lower the offset, the more stretch you will have to have to clear the fender, unless you want to make fender modifications
that being said...i think were finally getting on the same page on the setup
this was the first time you actually said "17x9 +40" in the rear, before you were either saying "17x9" or "+40 offset"
basically youre making assumptions that im reading your mind, the post above you were mentioning that setup and putting a 255 on with a +40...yes it will stick out 10mm more, but i thought you were saying you were going to run a 255 on a 7.5 inch wheel, which wont happen
basically the only difference between the 2 of us after all this is, i said run a 17x8 +25 / 17x9 +35, youre saying run a 17x8 +35 / 17x9 +40...its basically personal preference, theyll both clear fine, theres no issues with either setup
the only difference is my setup would sit out a little farther
also, if you change offset, youre not just changing sidewall flex
width of the wheel and width of the tire are the only things that affect sidewall flex, the offset, as youve mentioned, is how far out it sits
yes, depending on the width of the wheel, the lower the offset, the more stretch you will have to have to clear the fender, unless you want to make fender modifications
Re: (Edub1)
i can answer this question. but i've completely given up on your tire fitment confusion over such weak sizes that are not anywhere close to fitment issues.Edub1 wrote:Even with the extra 5mm on the front, I don't know why everyone likes the lower offset. A 8" rim with a +35 will come outward 30mm and a 9" +40 will come outward over 40mm. How can these look "sunk"?
If anything they should stick out a little.
when i had stock 15x6 +40 wheels on a lowered s13. it was sunken away from the fender 2 inches(50mm~) or more (rough measurement). x8 +35 would somewhat save the sunk by 30mm which is still not close to enough. i recommended 17x8 +25~ because it wont be flush, but it wont look horrible, it most likely does not require fender rolling, crazy camber settings, and is an easy drop in fit. i'd honestly rather have something like 17x8+15 or lower over +25 anyday. 17x8 +35/17x9 +40 would be "put on classified" asap lol like FAST
flush, to die hard guys means 0mm sunk/0mm sticking out nothing in between. sunk would mean: wheel spacer, lesser camber, or get new wheels. sticking out would be: more camber, fender pull/modifying, or wide fenders
this thread was about the best looking setup without a fender roll/performance sacrificing wasnt it?
Modified by Juujai at 2:28 AM 2/23/2006
Re: (nismofly)
I'm not trying to upset anyone. I just wasn't sure if I was explaining myself well so I tried to explain it a few different ways. Sorry.
As for the previous post. I'm not sure if you are reffering to the fronts or rears.
If we talk only wheels, a 9" +40 on the rear will stick out 1.5" (37.7mm) farther than the stock rim.
A 8" +35 on the front will stick out 1.2" (30mm) farther. How will this look sunken? Or are you just saying you like them passed the fender?
As for the previous post. I'm not sure if you are reffering to the fronts or rears.
If we talk only wheels, a 9" +40 on the rear will stick out 1.5" (37.7mm) farther than the stock rim.
A 8" +35 on the front will stick out 1.2" (30mm) farther. How will this look sunken? Or are you just saying you like them passed the fender?
sorry if i came off annoyed, but i thought i had expressed that i knew what you were talking about and i was talking about something else
you have to remember how close all of this is, when youre playing with millimeters...my setup sticking out another 10mm is noticeable but not by much, its not like ill need new fenders to clear or anything
about 45mm out from stock is the absolute limit without doing fender modifications, ill be about there with the 16x8 +22's i plan on getting sometime down the road...however the inside is also a cause of concern, with your spring and shock setup you have about another 10mm, but with coilovers the limit on the inside is 17x8 +35, and even then youll have to run a 215 tire to prevent rubbing...so with coilovers youve got about a 15mm range and without about 25mm range to work with
as for the fitment, its really personal preference, but my 16x7.5 +22's sit just how i like it in front, the wheel is right even with the fender and the tire is square, sticks out about another centimeter or so, so its pretty much perfect if you ask me, whereas your wheel will be sunken in about a centimeter and the tire will stick out to about where my wheel comes to...
this fit on a 17x8 would be +27, and i normally just round that to 25 because theres a lot more +25's than +27's
heres a pic of my car with the 16x7.5 +22's kind of hard to get an idea of where they come out to, especially with stock suspension
you have to remember how close all of this is, when youre playing with millimeters...my setup sticking out another 10mm is noticeable but not by much, its not like ill need new fenders to clear or anything
about 45mm out from stock is the absolute limit without doing fender modifications, ill be about there with the 16x8 +22's i plan on getting sometime down the road...however the inside is also a cause of concern, with your spring and shock setup you have about another 10mm, but with coilovers the limit on the inside is 17x8 +35, and even then youll have to run a 215 tire to prevent rubbing...so with coilovers youve got about a 15mm range and without about 25mm range to work with
as for the fitment, its really personal preference, but my 16x7.5 +22's sit just how i like it in front, the wheel is right even with the fender and the tire is square, sticks out about another centimeter or so, so its pretty much perfect if you ask me, whereas your wheel will be sunken in about a centimeter and the tire will stick out to about where my wheel comes to...
this fit on a 17x8 would be +27, and i normally just round that to 25 because theres a lot more +25's than +27's
heres a pic of my car with the 16x7.5 +22's kind of hard to get an idea of where they come out to, especially with stock suspension
Re: (nismofly)
Those certainly are not sunk in. And you are right, what is a few mm.
One thing I do not want is any protrussion. I want them just about flush and I want a lot of rubber.
I want it too look like a BA sports car, but like it came with these wheels. So, no protrussion because no cars come like that.
I'm thinking
Front: 17" X 8" +35 w/ 235/45/17Rear: 17" X 9" +40 w/255/40/17
How will that look?
One thing I do not want is any protrussion. I want them just about flush and I want a lot of rubber.
I want it too look like a BA sports car, but like it came with these wheels. So, no protrussion because no cars come like that.
I'm thinking
Front: 17" X 8" +35 w/ 235/45/17Rear: 17" X 9" +40 w/255/40/17
How will that look?
Re: (nismofly)
The front looks perfect. A 9" +40 in the rear will stick out another 9mm. Perhaps I should go with a 30 or 35. A 9" +35 would add just about 1/2" to what you have there.nismofly wrote:heres a side profile of what the x8 +35 looks like, this is actually a x7.5 +30 but the difference is 1mm, so youll never tell
this is a 215/45/17 by the way
Re: (Edub1)
this is imo what ~flush would be. imo x8 +35 would be sunken but it's not my choice. if you've actually read my posts most of your questions would've been answered long ago.
Re: (Juujai)
heres another picture of flush just for kicks. you must also rememeber camber setting plays a big role also. every degree of negative camber will sink a wheel approx 5mm~+/- because of the tilt.
Re: (Juujai)
Found some tire widths - these are on average rim size for the tire.
215 = 8.9"
225 = 8.9"235 = 9.3"245 = 9.8"255 = 10.2"275 = 10.9"
So a 245 is .9/2(25.4) = 11.43mm wider than a 215 in each direction.
A 275 is 1" (25.4mm) wider in each direction.
So, even at +40 these should both clear.
215 = 8.9"
225 = 8.9"235 = 9.3"245 = 9.8"255 = 10.2"275 = 10.9"
So a 245 is .9/2(25.4) = 11.43mm wider than a 215 in each direction.
A 275 is 1" (25.4mm) wider in each direction.
So, even at +40 these should both clear.
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McRussellPants
- Posts: 535
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Re: (McRussellPants)
Holy shiznit! Do you know the sizes? I think that's a little much for me.