People Gunned Down While Hunting

[nismofly]

*off topic*

hey MaineExport i just noticed your in Killington, i have a friend that goes to school at castleton state. just thought id let you know, ill tell you if im ever visiting...

/off topic

[JESTER]

The news media is stupid. A .50 calibur SKS. Great. CNN says the SKS is an AK variant. I got news for those liberal wennies, they are totally different weapons.

Mine was as follows: Synthetic Monte Carlo stock, two 30 round detachable mags, red dot scope.

Anyway, CNN says the killer actually told police that he was walking away when they shot at him. So he doesnt run away, he takes the time to remove his scope and then turns around and starts shooting at the hunters. He even told them he chased some of them down that were running from him and shot them. Went back to where he dropped the first ones, and one hunter was still standing there. He looked at him and asked, "Are you still alive." and shot at him, but he told police he didnt know if he hit him.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/LAW/11....html

Here read this stuff for yourself. They never had a chance. The SKS is even today, a good assault rifle. It is popular with hunters because of it's accuracy, dependability, and inexpence to buy and ammo.

My prayers are with the family and friends of the victims.

[MaineExport]

*off topic*

hey MaineExport i just noticed your in Killington, i have a friend that goes to school at castleton state. just thought id let you know, ill tell you if im ever visiting...

/off topic

That's cool as hell... I'm a senior accounting/management major at Castleton!! What's your friend's name?... It's a small school... we may have met.

And yeah... if you come into town let me know!!

[Repo Man]

The SKS is even today, a good assault rifle.

I wasn't going to comment in this thread, but given the posts in this thread I cannot keep my inner-postwhore contained.

The SKS is NOT an assault rifle. Nor is any rifle an assault rifle if it does not have at least select-fire capability. This means that in order to be an actual "assault rifle" it must have the capability to fire more than one round at a time when the trigger is depressed. This is a functional, not a cosmetic, difference. The 1994 Assault Weapons Ban defined an assault rifle as having 2 of several different cosmetic characteristics, but no functional differences, which is highly erroneous. But leave it to a bunch of damned politicians to not know the difference anyway, or even care.

The reason they don't care is due to their agenda. The agenda is to erode gun owners rights piece-by-piece with "reasonable gun control measures". This worthless piece of legislation cost the Democrats control of Congress in 1994, and has since proven itself to be just that: WORTHLESS.

If there is anyone that thinks this is not the agenda of liberals, aka "progressives" or of Handgun Control, Inc./The Brady Klan and many other anti-rights groups, that person is sadly deluded.

With regard to the media, especially CNN (Communist News Network), ignorance is pervasive. They have no idea what they are talking about, but report it as fact. There is no .50 caliber SKS. J-Spec is exactly right in his description of this round, 7.62x39mm. To take it a step further, the overall length of the round is 39mm long, not the actual bullet.

This round is not particularly powerful or accurate relative to other rifle rounds. It is about as powerful as the 5.56 NATO which our troops have been stuck with for some time as the standard in M16 rifles and their variants such as the M4 carbine. This is changing however to the Remington 6.8mm SPC, which should be more effective in dispatching bad guys.

To wrap up a lengthy post, the SKS round is cheap, plentiful but again not "high-powered" as far as rifle rounds go. What many don't understand though is that a rifle is inherently more powerful than a handgun and there isn't much body armor that will stop rifle rounds, certainly not the soft-type bullet-resistant vests that most law-enforcement officers wear. I do say "resistant" because there is no true "bullet-proof" vest.

repo

[Silvia007]

Well no one really knows what happened over there, obviously both parties are lying to some degree.

The story I heard, he was chased down with ATV's and shot at 5 times before he decided to shoot back. I've also heard he was ex-military.

I live in the same city he lives in so there's a heck of a lot of stories, I guess the courts will decide which story is legit.

If the guy shot those 5 dudes because he was just pissed, let him rot in prison. If he shot back in self defense, well, those guys made some poor decisions and paid for it with their lives.

People shouldn't start *****'n at someone because they did something and don't even fully understand the situation.

[MaineExport]

Well, if the guy shot back and killed them in self defense than I have all the respect in the world for him. If I was being chased down and shot at by 5 other hunters, you better bet I'd make sure I took them ALL out before I left the woods.

However, if they WERE indeed shooting at him, it will be very easy to prove with simple observation of their weapons. The only problem with that, is that it's still not going to clear up who shot first.

The biggest problem I see with the whole ordeal (other than the senseless loss of life) is the fact that it gives all gun owners and hunters a bad name. I few people can't keep their tempers in check... and we all look bad.

[Altiman94]

THe man was ex-military and a native of laos. He had been in the states for 20 years and been a citizen for several.

[Silvia007]

You guys know what, what ever happened, all those who are involved, are evil and they all deserved their fait, now I'm not saying it should have taken place but the way it turned out, both sides were wronging each other. Why would it take 10+ guys to go after one guy then later flee, why would they have to fire a warning shot, why not just call the DNR or something or the cops... from what I made out, he didn't shoot the guy who told him to get off the property. Something happened to create a spark large enough to have all this needless and senseless killing to take place.

[Anand]

As I see it... that place is boiling with racial issues to begin with...

I can not say for sure but I wouldn't doubt that those people called out racial slurs at that guy and chased him out..

All I can say is that they called out the wrong guy.....

[MaineExport]

Well, he WAS hunting on private property without permission. As long as it was properly posted, he was breaking the law. They should have called the game warden or the cops as previously mentioned... but it can get very tense out in the woods when everybody has guns in hand.

I wandered onto poorly posted private land one time. I came from the back side of a swamp on land that I had permission to hunt, but apparently went too far and hiked my way into a neighbor's land that was NOT happy to find me there (we're talking about several thousand acres of forest, so property boundaries only exist on paper). Two of the owner's sons were out hunting and approached me with a nasty disposition. They told me I was on their land and to get out in the most direct and clear language possible. Instead of pleading my case and telling them that their land wasn't properly posted and I legally had every right to be there... I politely thanked them and left without discussion. They wouldn't even let me go back the way I came... I had to go straight off their land in the direction I didn't come from because the property boundary was closer in that direction. That resulted in a 7 mile hike on the dirt road back to the land I was supposed to be on.

Long story short... pissed off rednecks with guns... and NO witnesses around... even though I had a gun too, I just swallowed my pride and obliged their wishes. If this guy had done the same... 6 people would be alive and he'd be a free man.

[xyster]

Alright, let me try to clear up a few gun misconceptions on here. The SKS is definitely not a .50, it's a 7.62x39mm, as has been stated. The 7.62 round is not particularly powerful compared to a lot of large rifle rounds, and in an SKS, is only accurate at about 200meters or so. Even so, that round will kill you in a heartbeat at that distance. It's a tried and true round in a very solid assault rifle. Yes, I called it an assault rifle. Though it lacks select fire, and in stock form, a detacheable magazine, it still qualifies to anyone with common sense. AR-15's are semi-auto, and are still blatant assault weapons. The lack of a detacheable magazine makes little difference in the speed of shooting and reloading to an experienced shooter. In fact, I think some states classify the SKS as an assault rifle (mass and cali, I think). Go to the range with me and my SKS some time, then tell me it's not an assault weapon.Correct, the SKS is not an AK variant, though their construction and operation is similar, so I suppose it's an easy mistake to make. As for the 7.62 vs 5.56 comparison....the 7.62 packs a lot more knockdown power at close range. Here in Iraq, it's widely known that a 5.56 round will barely slow down a running adult...the 7.62x39mm is another story. The 5.56 is better at longer ranges, that's its main advantage.Also, the military is not planning to abandon the 5.56 anytime soon. The weapon most likely to replace the M-16 family, the H&K XM8, is a 5.56 weapon. It just makes sense to have our light machine gun and main battle rifle chambered for the same round. Don't take this to mean I'm a fan of this .223 varmint rifle I carry.As for the recoil of a .50: I talked to a sniper with a Barret M82 .50 rifle the other day....he said the recoil is like a punch in the face. From my personal experience firing M2's and M3P's...it's no joke. You can feel the shockwave sitting behind the gun. Eh...that's my long-winded post for the month. Flame away.

[Onizuka]

I guess you could consider the SKS an assault rifle simply because it is a battle rifle. But then a US M1 Garand would fall under the same exact description wouldnt it? semi-auto, "stripper clip" fed, fittings for bayonnet and grenade launcher, .30-06 ammunition. Or any of the 100's of military surplus fire-arms dating back to WWI (the SKS was designed in 1945). They are relics of a previous era. Just because its russian doesnt make it evil (at least since '91 ), just cheap to operate.

[Mr1der]

yup yup yup...

stupid media...they're the reason for retard anti gun people...well, not entirely, but the retarded ones anyway...

once you seperate fact from fiction, it'll make a world of difference.

damn shame they didn't just shot the bastard though.

or bayonet him with a similar gun that still had it on...

[madbouncy]

It's really too late to define assualt rifles, it's all opinion now. Hell, even a lot of ar-15s get stamped as sporter rifles so that it's legal to hunt with them. Though the sks is tricky because a lot of them are modified. If you look at the original it resembles a garand more than anything, has a rifle stock, fixed magazine and isn't meant for rapid fire. THough when modified it's alot more like the ak because of the detachable magazine and pistol grip. Plus, the bolt mechanisms I thought for the sks and ak were almost exactly alike, except sks had a heaver receiver, never learned too much about them, I've never seen an ak in person so I can't really compare it that well to my sks. Those two rifles aren't accurate though, they really just aren't, the sks is a lot more accurate than the ak but it's a far cry from anything good. Plus most of the ammo I've seen for the sks is the wolf hollow point (haven't looked very hard for more though.) Also not a good round for distance shooting. The great thing about those rifles is the durability. You have to clean an ar-15 after everytime you shoot it or it'll starting jamming quick, I know a lot of people that had troubles qualifining because they're guns would jam because they could care less about cleaning them (and learning what to do when it jams, yay for sports.) However, you can shoot an sks, throw it in the locker, 9 months later, it'll shoot exactly as it did before.

I usually just call everything a rifle, makes it a lot easier than assault rifle or whatever. Pretty much any semi-auto rifle gets classified as an assault rifle now though. Now if only I could find somebody that sells .30-40 krag ammo.

Yes there is a .50 cal handgun round that is a lot smaller, but it be stupid to put it into a rifle, the only rifles I see modded to pistol rounds is to make the .223's into .22, because they're so close in size, it's just a way to save money for target shooting, not even really worth doing. Well unless you wanted like a crazy little full auto .22, if you're going to mod it, might as well have some fun with it. A .50 cal sks would be a completely different gun, atleast going from .223 to .22 you can keep the chamber, receivers and barrel depending on how accurate you want it.

[Mr1der]

it actually resembles a Tokarev rifle to me

but I know what you mean...it was originally designed for military use.

I blame the Nazis for making a revolutionary rifle...

[JESTER]

I tend to use the BATF's deffinetion for assault rifle. And the SKS falls in there. Now I am not saying I disagree with Repo, I do not. I watch the politicians carefully with reguards to my constitutional rights, especially the right to keep and bare arms. To me, that is the right that protects the other ones.

7.62 x 39 is one of my favorite rounds. Short range it is hard to beat. I like the 7.62 x 54r, too. I figutre Repo probally has an M91 stashed back in the closet.

You know, we take a thread about a horrible incident, and us gun nuts gotta get in to weapons involved. To heck with it, I will start another firearms thread, so we can move our pro-gun chit chat over there...........

[Repo Man]

I figutre Repo probally has an M91 stashed back in the closet.

Damn dude, THAT is just uncanny. Picked mine up in decent shape for $55 at a gun show in college. Can't beat it for the money!

[Mr1der]

oh god how I love those....

I've got one around here too...

this one's been doodled with by a mediocre gunsmith though, new ugly parked finish and a bent bolt handle to accomadate a scope...and a cut down front sight.

it still shoots ok though from the little I've had a chance to shoot it.

I'd recommend one in good condition to anybody.