Overheated to an extreme.

[SpeeDDrifT]

I got my SR swap done...(the important related factors listed)

RedtopBLITZ FMICFAL dual electric fansNew water pumpKoyo Aluminium RadiatorGReddy Oil panKept the A/CVented HoodStock temp gauge

I wasn't aware of the terrible overheating issues of the SR (expecially with my setup), nor did anyone at the shop tell me. The swap was done in S. Cali.......I live in N. Nevada. On my way out of Cali, back to Nevada (after a few days of driving around) I was going to stop by the shop and have a final checkup and Oil change.

I thought I was doing everything possible to keep a reliable SR. So I had been driving for about 2 hours.....the last 45 mins or so is a incline..with the A/C running....i did not know that the engine was overheating (actually wasn't paying attention to the temp gauge until i smelt it) So i finally check the temp....it is pass the H level....(i have since read some topics on the insufficientcy of the stock temp gauge) so i quickly pulled to the side of the road...where my engine quickly died.....i turned on the heat, and kept the fans running, popped the hood....it was too late.....i had the car towed to the shop..(only two miles from were the engine died) they told me the next day the engine is done for...the head is warped.....the cylinder walls scored..... the coolant had vaporized and the oil had broken down.

Is this what one can expect from an SR? Sure I hadn't been aware of the engine temp (partly because the mechanics failure to mention the issue and partly my own irresponsiblity stemmed from driving cars that are capable of executing driving at crusining speeds without falling apart) Don't get me wrong, i liked the motor and it seemed strong....but realistically isn't it dissappointing that this highly revered motor can so easily fall victim to something as simple as overheating?

Call me stupid whatever but I really wasn't aware of the problems with overheating.... and it seems ironic that one would pay all this money for a motor that (given it's performance potential) would suffer from such problems any motor setup should be built to defend against. Sure the FMIC will block air to the Radiator and the A/C will also cause the Radiator to warm up....but the Dual fans, Vented hood, Aluminium Radiator and extra oil should all have helped combat that.

Is this what one can expect from a SR with "said" setup? Does this happen in Japan? SR's there have A/C i am sure.....do they buy them from the dealer and are told ,"by the way, don't use the A/C for long periods of time, or uphill because you'll overheat"Why do the EVO and SRT-4 with their large FMIC not suffer from this?

Now it is a question of new block or rebuild....rebuild will cost twice as much as the engine alone option. what can be done so this is not an issue? it is not as though i go long distance very often....but if i do....is this what one can expect? is this what i can expect at the track? it just doesn't seem right.
Modified by SpeeDDrifT at 12:35 PM 9/5/2004

[912.0turbo]

That sucks man.Did you put in a thermostat with all that stuff?I'm taking mine out right now and I tested it and it was bad.I just got a KOYO yesterday and installed it and the damn thing still got hot so today I found out it was the thermo.Still love the KOYO though.

[SpeeDDrifT]

New thermostat....like i said i felt as though i did everything possible to have a reliable SR...

[912.0turbo]

Hmmm....There are many people who dont have a problem w/overheating but then again there are many people who do, like you and I.

[mynismo]

there was something wrong with your engine, and you neglected to keep an eye on it. that's all i gotta say.

sr's are known for having cooling issues, but if everything's working right it should be fine.

you sure your fans were working? maybe your thermostat went bad? that can happen on any car. that's why we have gauges, and that's why you have to look at them.

[SpeeDDrifT]

yes the fans were working....perhaps the thermostat did go bad.....i don't know? the shop has the car. yes i probably should have been babysitting the gauges....and i would have if i had known that the SR was so suseptable to overheating. does that sound like normal SR operation to you? is this normal? i knew that there would be responses like yours....and i am glad you did respond. So that I may ask you....Is this what can be expected of the SR......constant attention to make sure it doesn't overheat even under normal driving conditions that other engines (my old KA) would perform without problems?

I was amazed when the shop guys were like," oh you were driving with the A/C on uphill...on a 90 degree day?" .....UH yeah!! it's 90 degrees isn't that what A/C is for?

So is this normal? if so why? and why does it seem no one else thinks it's not right that this motor overheats so easily (if it is infact normal)?

[RiceBurner98sC]

Overheating is an issue but I dont think with your setup its THAT big of an issue. I have far less of a setup than you and I dont have overheating issues and Im in Florida with a/c cranked like its going out of style. There probaly was another problem with the car mainy the thermostat or possbily even the water pump. Other factor that some people have a tendecy to neglect is the mixture/type of coolant they run in their motors.

[Gladius]

Its not normal to me. I had my stock KA radiator with my SR with a big greddy intercooler in front of it. I had no super overheating problems. Only time I ever saw the needle move up an "notch" on the gauge was when I was crusing 85mph on an 98 degree day. Even running it hard I saw no increase whatsoever. I now have my koyo rad. in and see no issues with temp probs. I am also running dual 12" fans with the stock hood.

The only thing I can think of is a bad termostat or the shop didnt bleed the coolant system and you had some air in there. Maybe you can find some evidence that the shop screwed up and get them to pay for the damages. (Doubtful)

[mynismo]

if i were you i'd check out that thermostat asap

was this the first time you took the car out? that sucks! if it wasn't the thermostat it could have VERY WELL been that the cooling system wasn't bled good enough. sr's have extremely sophisticated cooling system bleeding instructions and if you don't do it right, there will be an air bubble in the system. when i first overheated it was because i took off the upper radiator hose for some odd reason, and took it out for a drive. i came home with the needle pegged to H, popped the hood, and the upper radiator hose was clinched shut with no fluids in it at all

probably 40% of the cooling issues out there are probably from a badly bled cooling system.

[Hijacker]

overheating is an issue with an SR that's running in the upper part of its rev band. the S13 water pump begins to cavitate around 6500 (i believe it's 6500). Other than that, an SR will stay in the normal operating temperature all day long. Especially at highway speeds, which I assume you were driving.

I'm running a stock KA radiator, with my FMIC sitting directly in front of it, and the only fan I have is the auxilary fan wired into a temp switch in the upper radiator crossover pipe. I've gone on 5 hour non stop trips with the temperature in the 90s and not had any overheating problems.

I bet if you flush the cooling system you'll find some blockage in it. I've noticed on a few swaps I've done, seeing some blockage in the heater core hoses. I make sure they get cleaned or replaced. As for the block itself, I don't usually try to flush it, but I'm probably gonna start doing that on future swaps I work on.

[unfrgivn]

No cooling problems whatsoever. I ran the stock KA with the ONLY the stock A/C fan and a Greddy FMIC for a year with no problems. Even when pushing the car real hard for a prolonged amount of time. I agree with flushing the coolant system (maybe you have a big *** air pocket in there. Then I would check the thermostat and water pump. If you open up the radiator cap and let the car run, do you see coolant flowing by?

[SpeeDDrifT]

thank you for all the info guys....however part of my problem is that the swap was done by a shop in S. California....I live in N. Nevada....the car is still at the shop and if they did do something wrong....not bleeding the system correctly or if there is blockage in the cooling system.....i doubt they would admit their fault. I would hope they would .....but even at this point there would be no way to prove it.......as i said in my first post the coolant had vaporized (well probably boiled over and then vaporized what remained) so with all the original coolant gone, there is no way of knowing if a air pocket did exsist and i don't know how i would check for blockage .....since the motor is dead...and checking the thermostat is probably not viable either.....since it is probably fried.....to expand on the amount of damage.....the coil packs were partially melted and the koyo radiator has a slight bulge on the top of it. So am i down the creek without a paddle? I recognize that it is partly my fault (as i have said already) for not checking the temp gauge....but i think there was neglegence on the shop's part....to be honest they seem like good guys and perhaps if there was something they did wrong they might assume responsibility....but i don't have any ideas on how to even have THEM check for that, at this point. i had driven the car previously but for shorter periods of time, so if there was a problem the car would have had time to cool back down. is the turbo timer directly affected by engine temp or only run time? after one drive approx 1 hr 30min i remember the turbo timer was showing 7min of run time....that seemed high but i don't know since i have no experience with it.

[Def]

Sounds like something blocked your coolant flow after it got dislodged. A loose hose clamp on the radiator can do that too since your water pump can't really get the coolant circulating(almost overheated my old M3 this way when a cheap BMW clamp loosened up on me just idling in traffic).

If you took it for a 1.5 hr drive then it was NOT an improperly bled cooling system, as that would have shown up immediately.

From my experience SRs are really easy to bleed. My E36 M3 was a freaking bear though - took me about 30 minutes of sitting there revving the engine and massaging radiator hoses. The SR bleds itself after just massaging the upper radiator hose(my experience).

Sounds like something failed, which isn't really the shop's fault. It sucks, but it's always a possibility when you modify cars and s*** hits the fan.

[180fan]

2 hours into a drive and then the overheat, sounds more like a blockage to me than improper bleeding. But possibly it could have been a combo of the two? Dunno, I don't think cooling's taht big of an issue for the SR. I'm using a koyo 2 core on a stock cooling system and don't have any cooling issues *knocks on wood*.

[Hijacker]

actually, the SR has a bleeder screw in the upper hose outlet elbow.

Did the shop offer any kind of warranty? The motor freaking blew up a KOYO radiator

[912.0turbo]

I have to change my thermostat today.But I'm gonna flush it first.Any tips/suggestions.Sorry for jacking your thread SpeedDrift.

[mynismo]

i thought bleeding the system was hard... you have to keep undoing the bleeder screw and run it again and again to get all the air out. i could be wrong...

yea thats crazy your koyo went too. what a bummer. that thing must have been super hot.

[Gladius]

It also helps to put the front of the car up on jackstands to get any air bubbles up to the front for easy bleed off.

[Phax]

When properly cooled, the SR runs like a champ. I just took mine to Vegas and back. I was doing 100+ mph IN THE MIDDLE OF THE DAY, all the way from the bottom of the Cajone pass to Vegas.

It's not really your fault that you weren't taught good driving / automotive habits. Situations like this are why I believe that EVERYONE should have to drive a piece of crap car for a few months before they're allowed to drive whatever nice car their parents buy for them, or they can buy for themselves. Not only does it teach them an appreciation for why "that moron" that is doing the speed limit on the freeway, but it also teaches you to pay attention to your vehicle.

While flying across the desert, I was doing a full sweep of the gauges every few minutes. It's a habit. I check the gauges all the time. I had to develop the habit while driving a cracked out L-series motor with dual carbs that would vapor lock because they were right over the headers. With that motor, I eventually had to upgrade the cooling system because it kept wanting to overheat.

I'm sorry that you had to learn an expensive lesson. With regards to where you need to go from here, you'll need to talk to a competent machinist. Generally when an engine severely overheats, there is no point in trying to rebuild it. The head gets warped and the block is just never the same again.

Do the rest of us SR owners a favor though. Don't go around talking ish on the motor just because you melted yours. I beat the crap out of mine on a daily basis and it still runs like a champ.

[SpeeDDrifT]

91.0Turbo--no prob....i'm curious myself.

Phax-unfortunately none of the 12 cars i have owned have ever suffered from overheating...(even the buckets) so i guess i have learnt to neglect the temp gauge. as i stated earlier :

Quote »Don't get me wrong, i liked the motor and it seemed strong....but realistically isn't it dissappointing that this highly revered motor can so easily fall victim to something as simple as overheating? [/quote]

and i think it is a valid point....and from the looks of things here it's more possible that there was a blockage issue with the coolant. so i believe i and other people that have responded on this thread, may be helping to edjucate those that do own SR's already and those considering the swap to learn thru my mistakes. I think it is important to address the engine's weak spots and well as it's strong points. Don't you?

[Pepperoni]

Ouch. Horrible outcome. Sorry about your loss. Yes, SRs do have cooling problems, but I believe it mostly revolves around a couple of things. Environment does have something to do with it, but shouldnt be that big of a deal. Timing of the motor has A LOT to do with overheating. Improper timing will cause your motor to overheat. I currenltly live in norcal, using the stock KA radiator, and stock SR fan clutch, with no shroud, and SMIC running at 10psi of boost. After setting timing correctly, the engine has been running strong and no signs of overheating.

I'm not sure what advice I can give you that others already haven't. Maybe have less confidence in your mechanic and check things over yourself. This is why I highly encourage people to do their own swaps instead of having someone else do it. That way if problems occur, they know what to do. Regualr coolant checks are essential, especially for a newly installed turbocharged motor. I dont believe you didn't notice the temperature gauge, it's sitting right in front of you. But maybe i'm just used to seeing it (right next to the speedometer). You were going what, 70mph on the highway? See, even the speedomoter needle was pointing toward the temp gauge just kidding. Oh, and yes, that is what you should expect from an SR (or ANY engine for that matter) when it is extremely overheating. Good luck

[SRdave240]

Bummer man, sorry to hear it =(It's not the SR though. Throwing expensive cooling parts at an SR does not guarantee that you won't have cooling problems. (notice I said "you" not the SR). I believe the VAST majority of cooling problems isn't b/c of engine design or stock cooling components. It's operator error. This doesn't happen with cars with SR's from the factory b/c they install the right parts correctly and bleed everything properly. Then the owner doesn't mess with it for another 50k miles.

If you aren't wanting to constantly check on stuff yourself, I'd suggest getting one of those SRT-4's or EVO's that you talked about in your previous post.

You are probably right, the people that did your swap did something wrong. But as an SR owner (especially when driving a newly swapped car under extreme conditions) you gotta keep your eye on things!

[GTS4-R]

need a block or head??? my buddy has a block with spun bearing (fixable) (all internals) and 2 full redtop heads for 200 a peice...not sure what he wants for the block tho.....pm me

[mynismo]

o/t: 93Niss240.. my startup is going to be in about two days. you never know, i may need the block/head. please check out the price and let me know.

[SpeeDDrifT]

thanks for the input guys.

[Onizuka]

Sounds like a coolent-air pocket issue, I run my SR with a solid hood, no fan, origional water pump and a koyo rad and the stock temp gauge stays rock-steady. Before I took it out on the road I would let it idle and keep putting more and more coolent in the remote resevior. I did this three times and every time I needed to put more coolent in.

Tip for first time swappers after the swap is complete:First let it idle for 5 minutes, check for leaks, smells and odd sounds. If everything looks good, take a very short trip around the block and be very gentile. Let the car cool off completely, check fluid levels. Next go on a one mile test drive, and repeat cooldown and fluid checks. I would say keep periodicly check everything for the first week of driving.

You can never be too cautious with a motor that has been sitting around dry for an unknown amount of time and has an unknown amount of wear.

Speeddrift, I hope things turn out alright for you

[s13sr20chris]

....is this what one can expect? it just doesn't seem right.

no and its not. something went wrong with the install or the motor. that is not typical.

[curbsurfer]

here are the facts.

the car ran fine without overheating for at least 5 miles on our testdrive

he drove it around for a couple days with no problem including a trip to the l.a. area which is an hour and half away.

weve done over 20 swaps with no overheating issues like this. we know how to bleed an sr coolant system.

we pressure wash the coolant passages on the engine with the water pump off to get any possible "blockage" out

we used new hoses and we flushed the heater core so no blockages there.

he was driving uphill, in the desert(almost 100degrees), with the a/c on. its an uphill drive for 45 minutes at least.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

now, i feel bad about what happened, he had bad luck. i offered to install another motor(which he is doing) for $1300 which is basically free labor with parts at below cost. i will also install his new greddy temp gauge at no extra cost and im trying to sell his old parts for him so he can get a little extra money. so i am helping him out quite a bit as you can see.

if the A/C was shut off when it started to get hot it would have cooled down no problem but he did not look at his guages so it badly overheated. i should have told him to look at his guages i guess. i have never told another customer to look at his guages but i guess i will have to now.

for all the people saying it is the shop's fault, please state why. not just saying it was the shop's fault. i am open to constructive criticism but not assumptions. for all that know me and my shop, they know we do very good work and i have never ripped anyone off.

thanks, cullen@ garageworks

[Gladius]

Well Cullen, thanks for stepping up to the plate. Very honorable thing to do.

Now, I think the reason being that ppl, including myself, blamed the shop is, they guy didnt have the car is his possesion very long IIRC. At least not long enough to mess with something to make it overheat. Therefore, most would assume that the person who build the motor and flushed the radiator (and whatnot) didn't do a correct job. OR, some part was faulty that no one could predict.

Here's an example why someone would blame a shop or in this case a manufactuer.

Say a 40yr. old woman buys a brand new car. She would not be known to mess under the hood and tinker around. And two days later the car overheats. Would you blame her or the manufactuer?

[SpeeDDrifT]

I think I should also say that Cullen IS getting a hold of a new motor for me and doing the install for $1300. I am also having his shop put in a temp gauge W/ WARNING LIGHT lol!! I didn't post this thread to place blame on his shop, but to ask what is normal for a SR and to recieve your opinions. I thank everyone for their opinions and welcome more. AND same as the thread started...i want to know what caused the overheating? so i can know what to expect. If that means that i can't have the A/C on going uphill...then so be it.

And by the way my KA24DE motorset w/ exhaust (130k) is at his shop and i am selling it for $250...garageworks will do the install for about $500.

Also the overheated SR block is for sale $200 also at garageworks.