One of these kids is doin his own thing

[themadscientist]

One of these kids is not the same.

Hey libbies, remember this guy?

He wants to run the country he feels is not worthy of his respect and you want to help him.



It has been a while since we looked at the man in his natural state. I thought it was high time we revisited it. He has been polished to a high sheen by this point, for those just now looking at him as a choice, here is O back in the day.

[ishkabibble]

Here is some video to go with the pic:

http://s166.photobucket.com/al...a.flv

[APEXi240]

You know it's November right?

I thought this story was beaten to death 6+months ago.

You do not have to hold your hand over your heart during the national anthem, it is not considered disrespectful.

[themadscientist]

Seems kind of uncomfortable don't he.

On a sidenote, I hate it when people get creative with the national anthem, sing it straight and with respect.

[APEXi240]

Seems kind of uncomfortable don't he.

Not really.

[themadscientist]

You know it's November right?

I thought this story was beaten to death 6+months ago.

You do not have to hold your hand over your heart during the national anthem, it is not considered disrespectful.

Yes and just because some people don't care does'nt mean others share that opinion. the Obama campaign repeatedly suggests there is a statute of limitations on actions of "the one", there isn't. He did it, it will NEVER go away. I merely present it to those who may not have seen it. If you don't care, that's fine with me, some might so I give them the info.

It is not about requirement. I am not required to stand at attention anymore when colors goes in the morning but I do because I feel showing respect for the flag that represents a country and a set of ideas that people have died to create and defend rates a minute or two of my time.

The Obama dance during is disrespectful.

[dusred]

I was floored when I saw that picture a while back.

He will resign from his Church to save his Campaign but he won't put his hand on his heart during the National Anthem. It seems like he would do it just to please the public but I guess he doesn't really care .

[480sx]

I really wonder what the hell is going through that guys mind at that time.

[skylndrftr]

Quote »Â§171. Conduct during playingDuring rendition of the national anthem when the flag is displayed, all present except those in uniform should stand at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart. Men not in uniform should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart. Persons in uniform should render the military salute at the first note of the anthem and retain this position until the last note. When the flag is not displayed, those present should face toward the music and act in the same manner they would if the flag were displayed there.[/quote]http://www.usflag.org/uscode36.html#171

oh no he violated the us flag code...hows that spying on citizens coming my republican friends?

[themadscientist]

Deflection, typical and as always a failure.

[skylndrftr]

no its not deflection, its called comparison.

You are concerned that a candidate is not foollowing the US flag code (fun fact: last update 1922)

I am concerned that the current president is spying on this post.

I think its a valid comparison. One has no effect on me, one does. Which should I logically give a flying about? Its really frankly sad. I am not gonna yell FAIL I'm just going to be embarrassed for you and I am also going to go make more Obama phone calls tomorrow.

[themadscientist]

No it is an attempt at deflection.

Rather than confront the situation youa ttempt to marginalize it by placing it next to something else.

If you would like to discuss this second issue in a thread devoted to it I would be happy to. Here however the discussion is this particular incident. If you are unable or unwilling to discuss the issue then you have no relevent contribution to make, buh bye.

[skylndrftr]

Issue:

Previous to Flag Day, June 14, 1923 there were no federal or state regulations governing display of the United States Flag. It was on this date that the National Flag Code was adopted by the National Flag Conference which was attended by representatives of the Army and Navy which had evolved their own procedures, and some 66 other national groups. This purpose of providing guidance based on the Army and Navy procedures relating to display and associated questions about the U. S. Flag was adopted by all organizations in attendance.

A few minor changes were made a year later during the Flag Day 1924 Conference, It was not until June 22, 1942 that Congress passed a joint resolution which was amended on December 22, 1942 to become Public Law 829; Chapter 806, 77th Congress, 2nd session. Exact rules for use and display of the flag (36 U.S.C. 173-178) as well as associated sections (36 U.S.C. 171) Conduct during Playing of the National Anthem, (36 U.S.C. 172) the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag, and Manner of Delivery were included.

This code is the guide for all handling and display of the Stars and Stripes. It does not impose penalties for misuse of the United States Flag. That is left to the states and to the federal government for the District of Columbia. Each state has its own flag law.

Criminal penalties for certain acts of desecration to the flag were contained in Title 18 of the United States Code prior to 1989. The Supreme Court decision in Texas v. Johnson; June 21, 1989, held the statute unconstitutional. This statute was amended when the Flag Protection Act of 1989 (Oct. 28, 1989) imposed a fine and/or up to I year in prison for knowingly mutilating, defacing, physically defiling, maintaining on the floor or trampling upon any flag of the United States. The Flag Protection Act of 1989 was struck down by the Supreme Court decision, United States vs. Eichman, decided on June 11, 1990.

While the Code empowers the President of the United States to alter, modify, repeal or prescribe additional rules regarding the Flag, no federal agency has the authority to issue 'official' rulings legally binding on civilians or civilian groups. Consequently, different interpretations of various provisions of the Code may continue to be made. The Flag Code may be fairly tested: 'No disrespect should be shown to the Flag of the United States of America.' Therefore, actions not specifically included in the Code may be deemed acceptable as long as proper respect is shown.

In summation: I had the class to actually go lookup your arguement for you. I then explained why your being silly. Your making a big deal out of a set of guidelines that was developed prior to 1942. As another example of the stupidity of useless crap like this, did you know its illegal for a woman to wear pants in tucson AZ? I wonder if Cindy McCain has ever worn jeans there. OH NO THAT MEANS YOU SHOULD VOTE OBAMA...discuss the issues? maybe? just a little?

[480sx]

So Skyln, you seem to think this issue is about some guidelines, or 'law' thing that Obama 'broke'. You really cant see anything else wrong with his actions? Your really defending that with the argument that he didnt technically break the guidelines soo.. Its all good?

I realized 'The Ones' power was strong, but GD...

I really wonder why that isnt in a GOP attack ad.

[wawazat8402]

I agree, a person running for President should have his/her hand over his/her heart. I wasnt aware it was a requirement, but those running for the highest political position available in this country shouldnt be allowed to get by with the minimum.

Im just going to throw this out there for the Bush lovers as well.

[audtatious]

I take your attempted "deface the flag" picture and present this:

http://www.wnd.com/index.php/i...74563

[skylndrftr]

So Skyln, you seem to think this issue is about some guidelines, or 'law' thing that Obama 'broke'. You really cant see anything else wrong with his actions? Your really defending that with the argument that he didnt technically break the guidelines soo.. Its all good?

I realized 'The Ones' power was strong, but GD...

I really wonder why that isnt in a GOP attack ad.

Its one thing to actually be stupid. Its a whole different ballgame to act ignorant for the sake of trying to slander a political opponent. If laws were meant to be guidelines they would be called guidelines. If guidelines were meant to be called laws, they would be called laws.

Your so concerned with him 'technically' breaking a guideline? lets see you get up on Bush for signing the flag. Thats a minor little technicality to you fool.

Christ Aud...again with world net daily. You call us koolaid drinkers? Do you maybe want to come up with a not quite so biased source for that? You slam telco anytime he posts something from NBC because they are biased. And you post this garbage.

Both of you are frankly pathetic. Can you try and have maybe a modicum of class. Your losing on issues but the ease with which you abandon all discussion of them really shows your true character. Your a group of people grasping at straws as your failed ideas and failed politics get left in the dust. Eventually you'll come to terms with it, but a mild suggestion: until you do just go away because your really only making being a fool.

[wawazat8402]

I take your attempted "deface the flag" picture and present this:

http://www.wnd.com/index.php/i...74563

Wow, if that story's true, its absolutely inexcusable. However, if Obama didnt give the OK to trash them its really not in the same category as the POTUS or potential POTUS doing it. Its despicable nonetheless.

How is it an "attempted" deface the flag pic? Unless his Sharpie ran out of ink it looks pretty successful to me, haha.

[480sx]

Its one thing to actually be stupid. Its a whole different ballgame to act ignorant for the sake of trying to slander a political opponent. If laws were meant to be guidelines they would be called guidelines. If guidelines were meant to be called laws, they would be called laws.

Your so concerned with him 'technically' breaking a guideline? lets see you get up on Bush for signing the flag. Thats a minor little technicality to you fool.

Christ Aud...again with world net daily. You call us koolaid drinkers? Do you maybe want to come up with a not quite so biased source for that? You slam telco anytime he posts something from NBC because they are biased. And you post this garbage.

Both of you are frankly pathetic. Can you try and have maybe a modicum of class. Your losing on issues but the ease with which you abandon all discussion of them really shows your true character. Your a group of people grasping at straws as your failed ideas and failed politics get left in the dust. Eventually you'll come to terms with it, but a mild suggestion: until you do just go away because your really only making being a fool.

Jesus.. Im not even going to bother picking you apart because you have demonstrated that you have a zelot like mind incapable of critical thinking. I asked you some basic questions that you ignored, dodged, and took as a personal attack.

Point was simple bub, i thought i made myself clear. Thats our flag, and our anthem(crappily sung as it may be) that a presidential candidate of the united states is disrespecting. I could give a fvk about some archaic guideline. Thats my flag, and thats my candidate disrespecting MY flag.

Ill say it again. The issue is this. Thats MY flag, with MY candidate disrespecting my flag.

In another way. Thats OUR flag that OUR presidential candidate is blatantly disrespecting.

What the hell is so difficult with this for you to understand?

until you do just go away because your really only making being a fool.

Fool indeed.

Since you made that one soo easy i figured ld go for it. Well, while im at it..

Telling your 'oponents' to 'go away' is real classy bud. Reaaalll classy.

[smockers83]

This is something that follows along the lines of my thinking of the past few days. Everyone has seem to have forgotten that during the beginning of the campaigns, Barrack was campaigning far left and has moved left-of-center. What's not to say that he moves back to far left if he becomes the president-elect? This is one of the things that worries me about him.

[audtatious]

How is it an "attempted" deface the flag pic? Unless his Sharpie ran out of ink it looks pretty successful to me, haha.

I was assuming that was the purpose of the picture being posted.

[skylndrftr]

Ill say it again. The issue is this. Thats MY flag, with MY candidate disrespecting my flag.

In another way. Thats OUR flag that OUR presidential candidate is blatantly disrespecting.

What the hell is so difficult with this for you to understand?

zealot not zelot. BUT,

What makes me a zealot? That I don't care about the issue you care about? You really wanna go here?

lets look at my political history before you make accusations like that:2000 election (age 16) volunteered for the McCain primary campaign because despite disagreeing with some of his positions, I found him an honorable man. I then volunteered for the Gore campaign because I didn't like George Bush

2004 election (age 20) voted for Kerry, got arrested while taking pictures at the inauguration parades/protests of the whack jobs

2008 election (age 24) voted for Hillary in the primary lost, begrudgingly, then on the urging of my brother, an Obama primary volunteer, actually looked into the guy more, listened to him speak...heck MET him in June. Decided I was voting for him over John McCain for a number of reasons. Wasn't totally into him so I didn't plan on volunteering...until McCain picked Sara Palin. Since that point, I have been very involved in making sure she doesn't get near my government.

I in no way think Sen Obama is the best potential president ever, but I think compared to the alternative, I have to do something. I do think he (and Biden) are the only team running with the willingness and the faculties to understand the challenges that face them. In 8 years, I have gone from volunteering to get McCain into the presidency to volunteering to keep him out. The campaign he has run is not honorable it is not honest and it is disrespectful to both his opponent and the American people. I place a lot more value in honor and trustworthiness in the candidates I support because an honorable person will allow themselves to be influenced by facts and will do the right thing even when they may disagree with it.

So next time you call someone a zealot you might want to be a little more careful.

As for this issue, I simply could not care less. You seem to have decided that for you placing your hand over your heart when the national anthem is being sung is THE issue, and that's fine, its your vote. Have you even considered that he may have taken the time and the effort to understand what he is doing and make a choice? I doubt Sarah Palin or John McCain understand that. If we want to play candidate unamerican trivia...well I won't because its a pointless discussion and I have class.

[WDRacing]

Anyone that doesn't have an issue with a Presidential Candidate not putting his hand over his heart and even arguing FOR that person is simply Unamerican.

You have chosen a side, don't get all uptight because 99.9% of us think you're opinion on the matter sucks. This has nothing to do with being a Conservative or Liberal...it's about showing respect.

He's possibly the next Commander In Chief, how will his Soldiers be able to respect him? "Go die for the flag I don't even solute, go sing the Anthem I won't even respect" I could go on for days about how wrong he is.

Yet you're so blindly partisan you can't even for one second acknowledge that the dude simply messed up.

WD

[skylndrftr]

2000 election (age 16) volunteered for the McCain primary campaign because despite disagreeing with some of his positions, I found him an honorable man.

[480sx]

You think we care about your said political history? You are nut swinging here and now from a leftist perspective. Just because you did something when you were a kid does not make you any less of a leftist obama nutswinger.

Zealot? You avoided every reasonable question i asked of you and instead tried to deflect the issue we brought up in your attempt to protect Obama. In addition, you resort to personal attacks on me because i asked you some hard questions that you didnt feel like taking the time and responding to like an adult would do.

If you could care less about the issue, then GTFO. Simply because YOU dont care doesnt mean WE dont care. Your silly, off the beaten path perspective on this means NOTHING to the rest of us.

Ask pretty much any American if it bothers him that a presidential candidate would do a little dance and keep his hands in his pocket while the national anthem was playing. Then call them a fool and watch their response. Do it repeatedly, hell, it would probably be good for you.

[rjdmmfl1]

Anyone that doesn't have an issue with a Presidential Candidate not putting his hand over his heart and even arguing FOR that person is simply Unamerican.

You have chosen a side, don't get all uptight because 99.9% of us think you're opinion on the matter sucks. This has nothing to do with being a Conservative or Liberal...it's about showing respect.

He's possibly the next Commander In Chief, how will his Soldiers be able to respect him? "Go die for the flag I don't even solute, go sing the Anthem I won't even respect" I could go on for days about how wrong he is.

Yet you're so blindly partisan you can't even for one second acknowledge that the dude simply messed up.

WD

this is my first time in the politics forum... folks on both sides of the aisle get so emotional, and understandably so. I understand the OP's point in this thread, but it appears to stress one event to the point of casting an inaccurate shadow. I've read posts stating that anyone that doesn't put his hand over his heart, or that doesn't have an issue with a candidate doing so is un-American.

Why so quick to slap such a label on people for their opinion on such a matter. Often times, leftists and right wingers are so intertwined with their "party" beliefs that they make overbearing, ignorant, and baseless statements. I know war veterans that sometimes put their hands over their hearts and sometimes don't during the national anthem. Does that make them un-American?

We can't undertsand what's in a person's heart and mind from what we believe to be a break in the "norm." Too often, politicians put on so many fronts and false faces that we don't really know who they are, with their empty rhetoric, fly by night politics (I;m for the war, no Iwas against it from the start) and shifting positions.

I'm not defending Obama's actions for the sake of saying "its OK, he didn't mean anything by it", I'm simply saying that if he was listening to an ipod or cleaning his fingernails, then there would be more to argue here.

In any case, I often find the internet and forums a place where the weak can feel strong by tearing down other people and their opinions, and the ignorant can portray themselves as intelligent by quoting someone else rather than providing personal thought and insight in a non confrontational manner.

Regarding Barack Obama, no matter what the nay sayers have to say about him, the fact of the matter is that his ability to unite this country hasn't been seen since the days of Martin Luther King, Jr. (Although from reading many folks posts, I gather some here are not particularly interested in a truely "UNITED" United states, but would rather keep things status quo.) He has displayed the temperment of a leader during baseless attacks by his opposition, and has shown good judgement in the matter of this war that we should have never been in in the first place. His intelligence is unquestionable and his ability to arituculate exactly what he feels in a way that doesn't come off as more of the same is an attribute that I look for in a leader. He IS inexperienced , and has yet to be tested, but so was President Clinton, and he did a pretty darn good job cleaning up our economy after the first President Bush took it down a few nothches also.

I will no longer fall in the middle class by the end of President Obama's second term, but I am a product of a middle class family, and understand the need to not bleed them dry as many republican tax policies tend to do. From an intellectual standpoint, there is no argument to be made where I would place my vote, but from a polciy standpoint there is. SO folks, let's not follow the norm today. let's examine where where are now and whose policies are going to get us out of the mess we are in.

If you make upwards of $500,000 and don't care much about the state of the middle class, then its understandable to feel how you do in your support of one candidate's policies. But if you truly care about the masses, and not the few,, and want to see our country united (not divided)... then I'll see you at the Polls, and we can share a beer after our man Barack hits this thing out of the park!

I'm off my soap box now, and literally out the door to go stand in line for the polls to open at 7:00 am.... Be well everyone and God Speed!

**note, my apologies for the typos, I would spell check, but I gotta go vote.... besides.... a Hrarvad sduty sohewd taht as lnog as the fsrit and lsat ltretes in a wrod are crcoert, the sneetcne is lgebile to the aevarge raeedr!

[WDRacing]

Reread, I said the President needs to put his hand over his heart. What Joey baganachos does I could care less. I'm talking about the leader of the friggin country.

HE NEEDS to show respect to the flag and the anthem...period. Or he doesn't need to be the POTUS...nuff said. No respect = POS crap President IMO.

Why am I quick to label? Cause I am a Vet, vause I've lost friends and family defending this great Nation. Obama basically gave me a big F U...well thx big guy.

[skylndrftr]

YZealot? You avoided every reasonable question i asked of you and instead tried to deflect the issue we brought up in your attempt to protect Obama. In addition, you resort to personal attacks on me because i asked you some hard questions that you didnt feel like taking the time and responding to like an adult would do.

actually I was addressing the issue.

YOUR point: OMGWTFBBQ MY point:

I'm not avoiding questions at all. I directly answered your questions. You just don't like the answers. I then proceeded to make fun of you for being at Obama. so I am . To be fair, you only actually asked one question and it was rhetorical.

[HashiriyaS14]

You know, I forget to do the "hand on heart" thing sometimes, especially if there isn't anyone else doing it in plain line-of-sight.

My excuse, of course, is that I probably only hear the National Anthem played live once every couple years, I regrettably don't make it to a lot of sporting events.

Obama probably can't use that excuse, lol. I'm not sure what his deal was in that picture.

[smockers83]

a Hrarvad sduty sohewd taht as lnog as the fsrit and lsat ltretes in a wrod are crcoert, the sneetcne is lgebile to the aevarge raeedr!

Not exactly. Yours is not.