TrevorK wrote:Fact: Parts that make up a vehicle can and are made by a third party supplier
true.
Fact: Parts supplied by a third part supplier can make up drivetrain components
true.
Fact: The same level of quality/workmanship/etc that goes into a product produced by a third party supplier can be duplicated for several manufacturers
thats were we disagree. parts are not stamped on a cookie press and then sold to the car makers to use. because each individual car-manufacturer dictates the materials to be used by the outsourced company, each part will last longer or shorter - depending on materials used(even if the 3rd part outsourced manufacturer is the same). if nissan orders one type of plastic, versus dodge who orders a different type of plastic (from the same 3rd part maker) = the better plastic will last longer. if one car maker orders a certain LED bulb to be used for dome lights, while nissan orders a different LED light bulb to be used - the better LED will be the one that lasts longer. so no two orders are alike, even if they all order from the same company.
you seem to think that car makers pick & choose pre-made components out of a 3rd company catalog. if your theory was correct, then parts would be interchange between nissan and dodge and chevy and toyota, etc.
Fact: When receiving a part from a third part supplier the true variable is the design elements provided by the manufacturer, meaning that it's their own internal engineering that creates the differences not the supplier
what makes the difference, in each specific application is the design by a car maker. if nissan sends over blueprints and schematics of a throttle to ABC CO to make and build, then their specific product will be different and possibly a better designed component than what dodge might order to be built - even if from the same company.
Now where you are standing is that there are companies, in modern times (I'm not going to dispute in the past there were large disparities in quality), that have superior engineering to others and their components can have a longer usable life (note, usable life is different than total life) than a competitor across their entire lineup.
there are companies out there that make better quality parts over others. there are companies out there that make garbage sparkplugs(champion) and then there are companies that make 100,000mile sparkplugs(NGK and BOSCH). those are premade and easy to apply to any engine. but certain parts that are custom made by an outsourced company are specific to the car manufacturers design. (if nissan wanted to order some weird special spark plug from NGK, ngk would make it. that doesnt mean that chevy would want to use the specific deisng. heck that design could prove flawed. does that mean that everyone else is going to use the same plug? no!) if nissan chooses cheap plastic for a 3rd party company to use when making certain components = guess what.... thats not going to be the same good quality part as say if dodge spent the extra penny or two to make the same part but with better plastic.
Where I am standing is that companies, in modern times, have the ability to replicate the same level of quality achieved by other manufacturers through the third part suppliers and the engineering capabilities of a single company do not outshine another.
pretend there is only one company in this world that made wheel hub bearings = do you really believe that every bearing in every car would be the same, and expected to last the same? you are forgetting that car makers spent a lot of time with the outsourced company to fine tune the product for each specific application. each car has its own specifics for the application. weight, power, reason for use. every piece of that specific product was scrutinized and specifically designed by the car maker before sending blueprints & signing contracts for the outsourced company to get busy making this specific part.
if dodge negotiates and orders rims from IMSTRICKEN LLC, and in the negotiations chose not go the extra mile on a certain metal or process - the lifespan of the rim is going to be different than say ford who ordered the same steel rim, from IMSTRICKEN LLC; but chose to take the protective paint(that dodge wanted to forgo). SAME STEAL RIM, SAME 3RD PART MANUFACTURER, DIFFERENT LIFE SPAN. GET IT?
What evidence do you have to support your theory?
tons of time tooling. thats my evidence. seeing certain cars coming in and having certain things go bad - even if both are made by delphi, or any other 3rd party company. some parts that dont matter much: like tires, or batteries, or light bulbs - car manufacturers really dont need to delve into. they just use what fits. thats where you mentality is correct. they literally just choose out of a catalog of pre-made parts and use them. but most of the parts are NOT chosen that way.
Again I ask, what evidence/theories do you have as to there being a significant gap in technology? We can hardly use sales of vehicles (and besides, I highly doubt the sales figures reflect the large gap) because that's not a clear indicator.
i never said SALES are a key element to anything. i sale REsale value is a clear indicator as to what each car is worth and why. american cars dont last long = the market which works off of resale value clearly dictates why. run the numbers yourself on any kbb, nada, galves. resale figures at the major auto auctions do dictate which cars are quality and in demand and where. drive in a toyota camry with 150,000 miles, and drive in the same condition/year/ american car thats competing with the camry = and we will see which is valued more and why. wanna know why the toyota wins in every resale value? ITS QUALITY.
We can't use the argument of "the big three were in financial problems" because it was during a global recession.
actually we can. i didnt hear about honda, toyota, nissan, kia, hyundai, tata motors, needing any bail outs in order to stay alive. hell it got so bad saturn, pontiac all closed their doors. without the decades of government/municipal contracts, the big 3 would have slowly withered away. the crappy economy simply exacerbated the negative effects.
the problem with the big 3 is the sales gimmicks they ran for decades, finally caught up with them.
(use your big loud car dealership commercial voice) "ITS NOT THE SAME OLD CARAVAN ANYMORE, ITS THE "GRAND" CARAVAN!!"
stickers, labels, tags, etc all caught up with them. you can only relabel the same piece of crap so many times before people catch on and stop buying the clunker. "we stopped making the cavalier" - really? opps guess you thought people were too dumb to realize the cavalier is a cobalt. the big 3 big only cared about making: bulky, beefy, cars that sounded mean and strong, and had the labels to affirm its so called toughness (hemi, trail rated, limited, daytona, powerstroke, vortex, etc) and genuinely proud americans ate up not realizing that better is out there. the big 3 prayed upon patriotic folks, and fed them garbage the whole time with their fake "american made" "build with pride" stickers and logos - when they were cutting corners and making their "american made" cars in mexico & canada. people caught on, and started to push back by going elsewhere. the market dictates who and what. the big 3 almost drowned. the big 3 struggle to hold any re-sale value at auto auctions. and the big 3 have to "donate" to magazines in order to have pro-domestic articles written. it is what it is.
trev, with all due respect; this is getting tiring. lets agree to disagree. im done on this topic, its been a pleasure sir!
edit: check this out. will be interested to see.
http://www.kbb.com/new-cars/best-resale ... 0094158376
(the only reason the wrangler made it is the extremely large following of off-roaders & rebuilders)
