Oil pump?

[Kansei240sx]

On the JUN snout, what is required of you to take off? Does the entire crank assembly need to be taken out, and where is this part obtainable?

[JonPowell]

Crank comes out, gets dropped at the machine shop with the JUN collar, included set screws, and included paperwork. Pick up the kindler, gentler crank in about 3 days.

[Phat_Optimo]

I don't like the idea of welding the snout on the crankshaft. To weld to a piece of forged steel like that with any success you will need ALOT of heat. Heat distorts metal. I am not cool with the idea of possibly warping the snout and rendering my crank useless & unbalanceable. JUN's collar is around $150 and isnt terribly hard to install. To em welding extra material onto the snout is akin to the JB Weld route.

Your so far of base its not funny. Rb20/25/26 none not one have forged cranks from the factory. Not sure where you came up with that one but you are wrong. Forged cranks are high $$ not something found in any of the oe RBs.

There is very small distortion (not warping) when welding the cast crankshaft . Just as much as it would get on a lathe. Balancing then polishing will be all that is needed. FYI its called the weld-rite process which is over 10 yrs old.

I wanted to mention that the JUN collar is an all around terrible part. Its attached to the crank with a set screw. After its pressed on. Machining the snout smaller is going to make it weaker in that area and it cost more... So go do some more research

[Carl H]

Your so far of base its not funny. Rb20/25/26 none not one have forged cranks from the factory. Not sure where you came up with that one but you are wrong. Forged cranks are high $$ not something found in any of the oe RBs.

are you sure about this?from what i understand most nissan engines of this era had forged cranks and rods but cast pistons, which is why the engines themselves can hold obcene hp but the piston ringlands dissapear after a while.if you could provide a link with info on this i would be keen to read it.

[JonPowell]

Your so far of base its not funny. Rb20/25/26 none not one have forged cranks from the factory. Not sure where you came up with that one but you are wrong. Forged cranks are high $$ not something found in any of the oe RBs.

There is very small distortion (not warping) when welding the cast crankshaft . Just as much as it would get on a lathe. Balancing then polishing will be all that is needed. FYI its called the weld-rite process which is over 10 yrs old.

I wanted to mention that the JUN collar is an all around terrible part. Its attached to the crank with a set screw. After its pressed on. Machining the snout smaller is going to make it weaker in that area and it cost more... So go do some more research

Actually, according to the directions on the last one I had, its held on by friction and kept from slipping with set screws. You machine the crank to a size LARGER than the collar, heat the collar & then slide it on while it hot and expanded. Once it cools it sticks to the crank as if it were welded. When the crank & collar heat up, they expand together and stay stuck. The set screws are a safety, not a holding device. But you knew this, right? From your immense research in this field. Like reading the directions? Oh wait you couldn't have. There is NO PRESS INVOLVED.

Cast metal is EVEN WORSE to weld to, it is porous and has small fissures from the casting process. These fissures will have small amounts of contamination & oil in them you will not be able to clean out and make your welds far from strong enough to be trusted.

The lathe WILL NOT warp the metal since it cools while it cuts. The welding process is sheer heat. I am not gonna argue metalurgy with you. There is nothing to argue. It's pure fact.

HEAT WARPS METAL.

Do whatever YOU feel is best. I was just throwing something out there. An opinion shared by ALOT of engine builders I have worked with in the past. Welding a crankshaft is a BAD IDEA, but you do whatever you want. It's your bearings that will suffer, not mine.

THIS is the reason I hate trying to help people. Someone gets some crap idea and thinks its fact...hears something contrary to their "i heard it from so & so" fact & gets their feelings hurt thinking that their pee pee got whacked when corrected.

I try to help & get attitude, screw you buddy.

[Phat_Optimo]

Lets get something straight. The JUN collar is not even on the same level as the weld-rite process. The is no doubt in my mind. The weld-rite process has been proven to work since 93. This is not something like you said "i heard it from so & so". I have spoken with people who have been specializing in cranks for over 20 yrs. Your trying to tell me what they said is BS? Your full of it....

Its obvious that you feel one way I feel the other. Let the people make up their own minds. You can never ever hurt my feelings. Listen I will correct your dumbass and won't hesitate to do so. Got it... This discussion is over for me. Screw me?? ..... **** you mother****er ........

[Phat_Optimo]

are you sure about this?from what i understand most nissan engines of this era had forged cranks and rods but cast pistons, which is why the engines themselves can hold obcene hp but the piston ringlands dissapear after a while.if you could provide a link with info on this i would be keen to read it.

Yes I am sure. You know honda has cast cranks and they can handle gobs of power. Same with Nissan. They can handle 4x maybe 5x the power there were intended for. None of the rbs have any forged parts in them (rb26 included). Everything is cast. Unfortunately the cast piston is the weakest link in the rb not the rod or the crank. The rods suposedly can handle gobs of hp with proper tuning.... much more than a cast piston can take. As far as a link all I could find was about the crank but yes its cast and so are the rods. People think they have forged crank/rods but its not true.http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/upl...shaft

[JonPowell]

Lets get something straight. The JUN collar is not even on the same level as the weld-rite process. The is no doubt in my mind. The weld-rite process has been proven to work since 93. This is not something like you said "i heard it from so & so". I have spoken with people who have been specializing in cranks for over 20 yrs. Your trying to tell me what they said is BS? Your full of it....

Its obvious that you feel one way I feel the other. Let the people make up their own minds. You can never ever hurt my feelings. Listen I will correct your dumbass and won't hesitate to do so. Got it... This discussion is over for me. Screw me?? ..... **** you mother****er ........

Please. Oh Enlightened One, explain the weld-rite process to me so that I may bask in the glory as well.

As far as I know, from my own experience (assuming the crank is cast iron) you must heat the metal red hot Before achieving good penetration and combination of metals when welding. This involves using a torch first to heat the metal until its RED, THEN welding your extra filler materials to it.

That much heat on an item like this worries me.

If the "weld-rite" system can achieve good metal combination & penetration without heating the snout red hot, then I will back it.

As for the snout becoming smaller, the area in question is OUTSIDE THE MOTOR and only is used to turn the oil pump(low drag) and the accessories (again drag only) and not subjected to the same torture as the portion inside the motor...why look at the tiny diameter wher ethe crnak actually attaches to the crank pulley. Seems like it should just snap right off, doesnt it?

Correct me all you want, but ponder this. Fact #1, (and you haven't argued this yet) HEAT CAUSES METAL TO WARP.

Fact #2, unless the weld-rite process has some new way of welding to cast iron without heating it RED HOT, welding to a cast iron crank PROPERLY will warp it.

Fact #3, I DID hurt your feelings or you wouldn't have had to say "**** you mother****er ........ "

Anyway, this is just my opinion. and opinions are like ***holes, everyone has one & they all stink. Some just stink more than others.

So now, I humbly ask that you enrichen all of our lives with the details of how the "weld-rite" process works. Convince me and I will apologize & admit that I was wrong.

[Kansei240sx]

Im not sure on RB engines, but i do know that the KA motors have forged steel cranks and rods, and cast pistons. That i know for a fact, so yes, nissan has used forged internal parts on thier motors.

[jdmser]

so will the collar for the rb26 fit the rb20 since the oil pump does or is welding the only option for the 20

[Carl H]

so will the collar for the rb26 fit the rb20 since the oil pump does or is welding the only option for the 20

yes the crank collar will fit on the rb20, and if you do have a short snout crank and plan on revving the rb20 alot then the collar is a must.

[jdmser]

Since mine has aready spun, Im assuming I have a short snout. Where can I get one. I saw them on the JUN website, but does anyone know someone that stocks them?

[johnzm]

Yes I am sure. You know honda has cast cranks and they can handle gobs of power. Same with Nissan. They can handle 4x maybe 5x the power there were intended for. None of the rbs have any forged parts in them (rb26 included). Everything is cast. Unfortunately the cast piston is the weakest link in the rb not the rod or the crank. The rods suposedly can handle gobs of hp with proper tuning.... much more than a cast piston can take. As far as a link all I could find was about the crank but yes its cast and so are the rods. People think they have forged crank/rods but its not true.http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/upl...shaft

http://www.superstreetonline.c...23480/

ooga booga cranks if cast would shatter like little bishez. so far honda cranks are known to withstand over 800whp without modification.

[Phat_Optimo]

Nissan, Honda ect use cast forged rods and cranks. Cast forging has imperfections in the metal where the sand cast was made. These imperfections could lead to cracks. This is why people shot peen their cranks and rods. It smothes the surface making it harder for a crack to start. Obviously the cast pieces are nothing compered to drop forging or billet steel 4340.

[skylndrftr]

Nissan, Honda ect use cast forged

cast forging? I'm pretty up on my fabrication ( i work in a high tolerance steel production enviroment) and haven't heard of that one!

from personal experience with several welders and after talkign to the guy who teaches welding at my university, he said that even if you heat the cast iron quite hot (he didn't say red hot though im guessing thats gonna cause even further problems with warping) its still somewhat hit or miss. I tend to take what he says to heart as the man welded for a living for 25 before coming to work at my school. It also is gonna most likely warp things and at very least change the metallurgical structure depending on the rate of cooling among other factors

As for the OP's issue i don't personally know a lot about this specific issue as i only watch this forum to learn stuff for when i eventually start working on my rb (when i have the time to do it right). that being said it was mentioned earlier that it didn't appear like your pump drive was fully contacting the flat and that might wanna be somethign you look at. Just guessing but i would bet its possible that you somehow got a newer setup crank and had the old design pump which was designed for the smaller flat, if i'm wrong someone correct me and i'll remove this. If not you might wanna at least see about gettng it better aligned to fully use the flat that is there.

just my $.02

[Wulfgang]

Street wisdom: crank is forged

Jon Powell: crank is forged

Phat_Optimo: crank is cast

Jon Powell: crank is forged

Phat_Optimo: posts link where people are arguing about cast vs. forged. MotoRex says it's cast.

johnzm: posts link that says OEM cranks are often forged.

Phat_Optimo: crank is "cast forged."

skylndrfter: wtf is "cast forged?"

Google: wtf is "cast forged?"

Google: only 400R has forged crank/rods.

Conclusions: 1. "Cast forged" is a term Phat_Optimo just invented at 3:13 AM on 11/28/2005.

2. Nobody really knows whether the crank is cast or forged (probably not even Nissan).

3. The people on the Aussie forums that argued about this issue used much more polite language.

[eh?]

This is why people shot peen their cranks and rods. .

They shot peen their rods and cranks because they don't know the rods and crank are already shotpeened.

[JonPowell]

Shotpeening is a process where pellets are shot into an item at high velocity in effect creating a more dense item. Them process forces metal into all the little cavities & fissures in the metal.

Casting is a process where metalis poured into a mold(usually resin permeated sand). This process allows small air pockets, fissures & contamination to enter the part creating weak spots.

Forging is a process where a piece of solid metal is "pressed" into shape through heat, dies & pressure. This process eliminates the contamination, fissures & pockets in the cast part since the metal is never melted into liquid form.

[Darius]

Don't mean to bring back an ancient thread, but I can't read the instructions since they're in Japanese. Can someone please translate this and explain how this is supposed to be installed so I can explain it to the machine shop?

[300Plus]

uh oh, you know what they say... you dig up an ancient argument...all you get is.... newer versions of the same argument.

(actually I just made it up but I like it

[Darius]

hahaha I'm not looking for any trouble, just someone to interpret the instructions provided with the JUN collar. Any literate Japanese here?

And needless to say, I won't be using your saying any time soon jk man

[GTR Shop]

There is no way the pump can free wheel on the drive without the drive gear being smashed, or the drive stripped.Is if spins once, the whole lot is TOAST!

Sounds to me that the sump is getting pumped dry.We have encountered this on RB26s due to the rate that they accel in rpm under load.Added volume to sump and prob fixed.Having a dent in your sump will do 2 things, reduce volume and bring the pickup closer to the bottom.Both bad