Oh great!! Another political(?) thread.

[TrueSlide]

Surprised this hasnt been brought up yet. The 10 commandents statue.

Whats so wrong with the ten commandents statue?!? I dont understand how a simple statue could cause so many ppl to freak out and go crazy and complain. Damn on the dollar bill "In GOD we trust" or in the pledge of alliegence, "One nation under GOD". They are *****ing about sepreration of church and state?!?! Why not ***** and complain about whats on the money, or in our very own alliegence!! Wtf, morons with too much time, me says they need to complain about something better.

[soilwork240sx]

separation of church and state. thats all that needs to be said.

[[Zero-S]]

Actually remember, the pledge of allegiance was ruled unconstitutional...and look what that brought about. Shi.t even chuck e cheese has integrated the pledge into their show. Seems like there are a bunch of *****in retards looking for attention nowadays.

[toki]

Ok. The retard is the head of congress or senate or supreme court or something. He snuck it in, in the middle of the night. The rest of the people he serves with (supreme court, congress, whoever) voted against it being proper for it to be there, they told him he could put it in his office for all they care, just not in the rotunda. He sais "F YOU MOTHER EFFERS!" and keeps it there. He is now suspended. The statue is still there. It's more a matter of the douche bag disobaying a federal order.

[Rockenreno]

can't we all just get along? :icesangel

[Cold_Zero]

separation of church and state. thats all that needs to be said.

I think that "Separation of Church and State" is the most over used and mis-understood term in American Politics. In its current state it’s only a recent idea. I don't what to see neither a Theonamy nor a Theocracy in this country. But people cry "Separation of Church and State" when they want to keep churches out of Social, Political and Community issues. I find it funny that Thomas Jefferson took Federal Funds to build churches in Virginia. Separate this!

Trueslide, I like your sig. You just need to add Anti-MPAA. I hate those commercials of people crying about how they are going to loose their jobs because people are pirating movies and music. If it’s so unprofitable to not make a movie or cd because people are pirating them, stop making them and make something else. The majority of the issue of pirating is Corporate Greed. The Record Companies didn’t have any problems back in the 40's and 50's with stealing black people's music, putting white people in front of the cameras and passing it off as their own. Writing contracts that hurt musicians who never saw a penny for their music. <Stepping of my soap box>

[AZhitman]

Ok. The retard is the head of congress or senate or supreme court or something. He snuck it in, in the middle of the night. The rest of the people he serves with (supreme court, congress, whoever) voted against it being proper for it to be there, they told him he could put it in his office for all they care, just not in the rotunda. He sais "F YOU MOTHER EFFERS!" and keeps it there. He is now suspended. The statue is still there. It's more a matter of the douche bag disobaying a federal order.

More unbased ignorant statements.

Which is it? Congress? Senate? Supreme Court? He's a state Supreme Court judge, FYI.

Nothing go "snuk in" in the middle of the night, it's been there for years.

The Court did not "vote against" it being there, they have recused themselves from the matter and it is some ACLU wacko pressing an issue the the Alabama voters have OVERWHELMINGLY scorned (they want it to remain).

Finally, keep one thing in mind: Freedom of religion does NOT mean freedom FROM religion. It means people are free to exercise their beliefs w/o fear of persecution from the state. So many people think it means FROM, not OF... They should have paid attention in American Government class.

[Cold_Zero]

Finally, keep one thing in mind: Freedom of religion does NOT mean freedom FROM religion. It means people are free to exercise their beliefs w/o fear of persecution from the state. So many people think it means FROM, not OF... They should have paid attention in American Government class.

AZ-I could not have said it better myself. Listen up kids you can learn A LOT from this guy.

Rock on!

[CaptainHenreh]

See, there goes hitman speakin my mind again.

Every time I hear "Seperation of church and state" I cringe.

#1, our constitution only forbids the the official support of one religion over another. This entire statute was designed to keep the country from having an official religion, which bucked a major trend at the time. The authors of the constitution wanted every religious group to be free to practice their religion without persecution. Alot of the countries in this period had an Official Religion (Germany: Lutheran; England: Anglican, France: Catholic) and the US wanted to avoid that. They did not want the government to be completely devoid of any trace of religion.

#2. The term "Seperation of church and state" isn't anywhere in our constitution. This surprises many, many people. Instead, it comes from a letter that good ole TJ wrote. Now, if I understand things correctly, and our country bases it's policies on Thomas Jefferson's personal correspondence, then we have bigger problems than a statue in a court in Alabama.

Dear Sally. I can't stop thinking about the hot jungle monkey love we had the other night in the barn. I'll be thinking about you while I'm in Paris, and I can't wait to see you shake dat thang when I return. Until then, I remain "Your Little Timmy".

I weep for the future.

[toki]

More unbased ignorant statements.

Which is it? Congress? Senate? Supreme Court? He's a state Supreme Court judge, FYI.

Nothing go "snuk in" in the middle of the night, it's been there for years.

The Court did not "vote against" it being there, they have recused themselves from the matter and it is some ACLU wacko pressing an issue the the Alabama voters have OVERWHELMINGLY scorned (they want it to remain).

Finally, keep one thing in mind: Freedom of religion does NOT mean freedom FROM religion. It means people are free to exercise their beliefs w/o fear of persecution from the state. So many people think it means FROM, not OF... They should have paid attention in American Government class.

Oh crackers Greg, lighten up buddy. By the time I got to my second example I remembered he was a judge, I didn't feel like going back and changing it. It was reported on NPR that when it was orginally brought in, he had it delivered at night because he knew it would not be approved of, and also that the supreme court ruled it unconstitutional and to be removed, but thats just what NPR said. If believing a highly reputable news source that possibly made a mistake makes me ignorant, I guess i'm pretty ignorant then.

And keep this in mind: If we start having one religion in our court houses, whats next? One religion in the senate? One religion to be president? Then we have the freakin taliban Christianity style. Seperation of church and state is something that has to be done for the sake of society. I have met alot of good conservative christians, but I have met many more that are ignorant and foolish and use the bible and christ as an excuse for everything. People who make anything but personal decision based on thier FAITH, those are the people I dont want to see come to power, or even see the seeds be planted for it to be possible, religious zelots, of ANY religion, yes even your sacred christianity, have no place being in any situation of power. Keep religion in your temple and in your home.

Please excuse any spelling errors I made repeatedly. Yeah.

[AZhitman]

Ever stop and wonder WHY it is that the Congress opens with prayer? Why God is represented on every $ that changes hands? Why the President puts his hnd on a Bible? Why "Under God" has remained in the Pledge for soooo long? Why our justice system is based on the Commandments? Why our calendar is based on Christ's birth and death? Why Christmas is a national holiday? (I could go on and on).

The Commandments in the Court aren't going against anyone's religion, they aren't hurting anything, they aren't FORCING anyone to practice Christianity or even believe in it, and if more people were familiar with the Commandments, there wouldn't be a NEED for the Court.

Maybe you should go picket the local mall and make sure they don't have any Christmas decorations or sales....

[MetaOrbit]

Ok, I have a solution. Alabama can have its 10 commandments, but they have to make monuments for the Koran and whatever else someone wants up there too. Agreed?

I'm sure an overwhelming majority of people would allow that. :rolleyes

[Cold_Zero]

And keep this in mind: If we start having one religion in our court houses, whats next? One religion in the senate? One religion to be president? Then we have the freakin taliban Christianity style. Seperation of church and state is something that has to be done for the sake of society. I have met alot of good conservative christians, but I have met many more that are ignorant and foolish and use the bible and christ as an excuse for everything. People who make anything but personal decision based on thier FAITH, those are the people I dont want to see come to power, or even see the seeds be planted for it to be possible, religious zelots, of ANY religion, yes even your sacred christianity, have no place being in any situation of power. Keep religion in your temple and in your home.

Please excuse any spelling errors I made repeatedly. Yeah.

Toki-Just remember you live in a predominantly Judeo- Christian society. And like it or not, the 10 Commandments have been one of the fabrics of law in our Society and Europe. I agree, I don’t want one person telling me that I can or cannot practice my brand of Christianity. But denying the heritage and history of this country is stupid.

[Jesda]

People are such whiners, seeking out something to offend them.

THIS buddhist doesnt mind the 10 commandments.

[JESTER]

Isn't freedom a funny thing? Freedom of religion, especially. We started a country that freedom of religion was of the most paramount values. The founding fathers wanted a country where you didn't have to worry about being christian, muslim, jewish, and so on. That we will all be excepted and able to worship what God and prohet we want too.

I see the removal of the commandments a violation of our freedom of religion, freedom of free speach, and a free press. Too many of our freedoms are being trampled. This justice is trying to stand up for what he belives in and trying to perserve our rights as a free nation.

Some may look down on him for spreading christian ideals or what ever. But it is people like that, that wouldn't give in to pressure by the powers that be that founded this great country of ours. It is sad that my generation has forgotten their history. Forgotten their rights.

[Cold_Zero]

Ok, I have a solution. Alabama can have its 10 commandments, but they have to make monuments for the Koran and whatever else someone wants up there too. Agreed?

I'm sure an overwhelming majority of people would allow that. :rolleyes

Why?The Koran is not the fabric of our society here in the US. The framers of the constitution did not look to the Koran to write their documents. This is not an issue of representation. Its a matter of perserving the heritage of this country.

[Cold_Zero]

Jester-To me the most important right is the Right to Bare Arms. With a gun in my hand, I can say what I want, worship who I want and print any thing I want.

[AZhitman]

Also, keep this in mind.

If there was EVER a case before this particular justice wherein a person was persecuted for his beliefs (non-Christian), I can guarantee you he would bring the hammer of justice down upon the offending party. He understands the ideals our system was founded upon.

[JESTER]

PS aint these religous descussions great!

[TrueSlide]

Trueslide, I like your sig. You just need to add Anti-MPAA. I hate those commercials of people crying about how they are going to loose their jobs because people are pirating movies and music. If it’s so unprofitable to not make a movie or cd because people are pirating them, stop making them and make something else. The majority of the issue of pirating is Corporate Greed. The Record Companies didn’t have any problems back in the 40's and 50's with stealing black people's music, putting white people in front of the cameras and passing it off as their own. Writing contracts that hurt musicians who never saw a penny for their music. <Stepping of my soap box>

Thanks!! Man I have a whole bunch on why I dislike the Record Industry, Greed being number, invasion of privacy number 2, #3 them getting away with everything they are doing. And another reason, being for the fact they still charge 20 bux for a cd of a album that is 25 years old!! WTF!?! Plus with the mass amounts of ****ty music out, their is rarely need to buy a cd, why pay 20 dollars for one or two good songs?!?! Many many more things I could go on about, like how they dont give money to the artists, how many of their lawsuits they won, the artists have never recived anything, etc. etc. Could go on forever, but I guess that would be another thread. Could go on alot, dont Know much about MPAA, but I guess the same could go there, lots of movies out not worth paying to see, sheesh, cant get good entertainment no more! :oface

[toki]

Yes alot of the world is based off of christianity and 'christ's' life, and while the 10 commandments were delivered before christianity existed if I recall, they still represent to most, Christianity. My personal view is there is not problem with them being there, I could care less, If I dont like it, I don't read it or pay attention to it, it's not hard, and I dont even not like it. But there are people who do care, who might be offended, especially since they may be walking in to be the defendant in a case where they were persecuted due to thier non christian religion, and they see a towering figure of christiandom. That's not very comforting or appropiate I would think. Every one is free to practice thier religion, ON THIER OWN TIME. If you walked into a trial where something important to you was on the line, say you were accused of discrimination against a persian, and the first thing you saw was a giant Koran with an inscription about how Islam is the only religion, and walked in to see a Persian judge praying on the floor before he went and sat down, how would you feel? Yeah, you would feel pretty defeated and like it wasn't fair I would guess. Why should we put someone else in that position. As far as the actual commandments, they are good lessons for all, as far as what they represent to many american's, they do not belong in a court house.

[JESTER]

Jester-To me the most important right is the Right to Bare Arms. With a gun in my hand, I can say what I want, worship who I want and print any thing I want.

Agreed. The right to keep and bare arms, is the most important right in the bill of rights. It insures all the other rights.

Guns were the tools that our fore fathers used to grant us the freedoms we have.

[Cold_Zero]

Toki,The only way I can see your example as being disheartening for anyone is if the judicial system showed a discrimination against a particular group. I am sure there are Armenians in Diaspora in Iran that may feel this way. But I don’t think that our judicial system has showed any such discrimination against a particular group.

God I love this country. Where we can debate anything and non one gets honked off and blows something up.

[JESTER]

The night isn't over yet.

[toki]

true. a good friend of mine went back to Iran to visit family for 3 weeks or so and he was telling me about if the police are being gay they can just pick you up off the street and you will never be seen again. If you walking with a girl, or are caught looking at one, you can be exucuted pretty much on the spot, even his sister. He came back early. America has alot of freedoms and everyone should be thankful for them.

[fiznat]

I dont see why there has to be a monument stating the 10 commandments in that building. It's not as if that courthouse is supposed to uphold those specific standards (legally, anyways). I mean, aside from any "rights" that might be violated by this monument's presence, I just dont understand it's reason for being there. Seriously, it's like having a book on automotive philsophy (?) in the garage instead of a factory service manual. The 10 commandments are an ideal, a (very general!) set of guidelines that many (not all) people live by. The LAWS that building enforces are something else entirely.

If the 10 commandments were law, this would be a different argument. Why cant christians just be happy with "do not kill" on the monument (which is a law, of course), instead of the much more religious version? Arugh I understand the history behind our constution - and it's ties with religion - but we're a different country now, and as corny as it sounds, our goverment must not show this kind of preference towards a specific religion.

[JESTER]

" our goverment must not show this kind of preference towards a specific religion"

Thats just the point. Our country doesnt show preference to any religion. Our country is seperate from any religions. But it gives its citizens the right to pratice religous freedom. Like the discussions of free speach and a free press always end, If you dont like it, dont read it.

[toki]

oh wait AZHitman I'm sorry. I just checked me email. I forgot, you are right about this one. Sorry I ever brought up that other thought. How silly of me.

[fiznat]

Thats just the point. Our country doesnt show preference to any religion. Our country is seperate from any religions.

That's just plain wrong. Do you think that our President GW is really honestly not showing any preference to any religion? Jeez how many times has he said that we must trust in god or that Jesus is his hero (he did say that)? I cant even count.

Our goverment, in both practice and philosophy, shows a VERY strong preference to the Christian religion. Just read above at all the things AZ listed. It's in our lives everyday.

I'm not suggesting that we remove all of these references, it's just too much. ...But that doesn't mean that we should continue to produce NEW forms of that same preference and try to say that it's some sort of history lesson.

...And I beleive that the freedom OF religion belongs only to private citizens, NOT to the goverment itself. Freedom FROM goverment isn't a right, as AZ said, but rather a responsibility of the goverment.

[JESTER]

That's just plain wrong. Do you think that our President GW is really honestly not showing any preference to any religion? Jeez how many times has he said that we must trust in god or that Jesus is his hero (he did say that)? I cant even count.

So you would have it to where you and I can be free to practice our religion but the president can not? That doesn't make sense.

Like what was said, People have an improper ideal of what seperation of church and state means. This is meant so the church does not have power over the government. Like what happened a few centuries ago in England and France. The church getting a country into war. Much like some of the Middle east countries. You recall the crusades dont you?

...And I beleive that the freedom OF religion belongs only to private citizens, NOT to the goverment itself. Freedom FROM goverment isn't a right, as AZ said, but rather a responsibility of the goverment

We are discussing the justices freedom of religion, not the governsment relious practice ( or we were when this thread started). I admitt this thread has stryed off that target a bit. As far as freedom from government is not a right. I wouldn't disagree with that, but it is our job to see to it that the government is kept in line with our freedoms.

This ten commandments issue is a touchy one. I have my opinion, and I belive it to be the right one. But Just because I belive that, doesn't make it true. But, I am be no means willing to suffer the lose of any of my constitutional rights, and freedoms.