Officially The Rb25 Propane Build thread!!

[rb25drag]

Well I cant get my Fittings to seal for the Propane. So I might be Scrapping that soft copper Idea. Non of my fittings I bought will seal on one another or on the copper Even with my propane seal glue.

I got my turbo back from Precision today, So im going to set the Intercooler aside for a bit so I can Finally get some tuning done and get the car some street time. Im going to ride on 15lbs of boost for a bit until I get everything a final tweaked. Then I will pick back up with the IC later.

[sepulchralx]

Well I cant get my Fittings to seal for the Propane. So I might be Scrapping that soft copper Idea. Non of my fittings I bought will seal on one another or on the copper Even with my propane seal glue.

I got my turbo back from Precision today, So im going to set the Intercooler aside for a bit so I can Finally get some tuning done and get the car some street time. Im going to ride on 15lbs of boost for a bit until I get everything a final tweaked. Then I will pick back up with the IC later.

So you plan on using that thing? I'm sorry we're bursting your bubble, but that pipe thickness is too large and you NEED fins galore to dissipate heat. The only thing you'll be doing is cooling down the outer surface of the pipe.

Your idea of using the LNG to cool your compressed air is a good one though, pursue it with an A2W cooler!

[Fibre guy]

Are you trying to solder the pipes? Have you tried brass pipe compression fittings?

So you plan on using that thing? I'm sorry we're bursting your bubble, but that pipe thickness is too large and you NEED fins galore to dissipate heat.

Get off your ego and read all the posts... Behold:

So what makes it not work? I have already proven the Propane will cool the Intake temps better than air to air can. And that was with a cooler that was 12x12 with a a/c condensor in it that was only 3" thick. Thats all the cooling it received and I was able to get 110degree's constent threw 20 dyno pulls @ 90 degree's outside temps.This cooler not only has 28" of cooling ability. But it also has water as a heat soak.So how could it not be better than what I had?A air to air cooler runs in the 120-180 degree range.

[rb25drag]

Compression fitttings is what I used. They leaked with full tank pressure. So then I solder'd them and they still leaked. Look I see were everyone is going with this Idea. I see the Pro's and con's.I also see what you all ssaying about the pipee not having enough fins compaired to a normal IC.Ill set on it for a bit and will see what i come up with.

[Fibre guy]

What about soldering them and then pulling high pressure hose over it with clamps. Napa has some large red fuel safe high pressure hose.

[rb25drag]

Well problem with that is the fittings are leaking were it goes into my end plates. Im having a hard time figuring out how to seal the Propane fittings and also sealing my container with water at the same spot.

[Fibre guy]

Maybe you can get someone to custom bend aluminum piping for you?Some AC shops bend their piping.House ac's use copper line with the high pressure freon don't they?

[Carl H]

what about brazing them...not the fanciest way of sealing things but it is a sure fire way to avoid leaks.

[rb25drag]

Actually change of plans! LOL, I think we figured it out.

We set down and looked over the water to air coolers. I totally forgot about my old propane Converter that actually uses water to convert the liquid propane into a vaper.

SO im going to purchase a water to air IC box and were going to setup my old converter.

So how it is going to work is were going to have my Propane converter hooked into a condensor, then ran from the condensor to the IC, The Hot water flowing from the IC to the converter will work as it Hits the Hot plate (internally) of the converter, which will convert my propane to a vaper(it expands 40x its size) and The water will be COOLED like Ice coming from the converter Flowing threw my condensor and then recirculating threw the Intercooler. This system will elliminate about 6ft of piping and will be within 3ft of my intake so it should see max cooling. ( In theory again) LOL

We will come up with something thats going to work.

Whats the thoughts on this Idea?

[rb25drag]

Well I finally got the turbo setup finally correct. I also Got a decent tune on the car. I drove it about 200miles over the weekend. The only Problem I have Is I am just running a vapor tank and It can not keep up enough fuel under boost. SO 10PSI is all I can boost. Anything above that i Go lean. So I am now in the process of getting the Water to air setup on the car and also going to switch back to the liquid propane. But I have to say It was really nice to get some street time on it. Seems like its been yrs. But im still not finished lol. More to come!

[Sil240]

NICE!!So once you get that water 2 vapor setup you'll be good right?

How's the response of the LPG Carb?

Any vids?

[rb25drag]

Yeah once I get the water Ic setup I will be finished with the motor setup. Then I gotta start on the 8.8 ford rear end setup.As for the propane carb. I cant tell a difference in response between it and injection. It responds very well.I didint get any video's. I cant really stay in it long due to it leaning out. So it would just be boring lol. Ill post some when I get it running 20-23psi at Wot.

[rb25drag]

Well here is a couple pics of the new intercooler going on. This gets me down to about 2.5ft of Intercooler piping from the turbo to the the intake. The 90Degree box is super nice! I should have the water system complete by next week.

[Fibre guy]

<- jealous...

[rb25drag]

Well here is the Final Product of the water to air IC with the Propane Conversion. It is Jam Packed under the hood! But works out perfect!

I didnt get to test it tonight cause I ran out of time. All I gotta do is Mount my new aluminum fuel tank and fire it up!

I will have results Wed. Im goint to street tune it around 21psi of boost and the get some dyno time either this weekend or next weekend for the final tune!

[rb25drag]

Well I got a little testing in. The Intercooler Worked out Great. I now pick up boost @ 3800rpm. It also is pretty steady on the a/f meter. I Got enough fuel now to run some good boost. But I been messing with it on 13/14psi.

So today I ran it around the block. The intake temps stayed around 90 degree's just cruisin. You can get in it pretty hard. 1st/2nd and part of 3rd and the intake temps go up around 120-130 degree's. But as soon as I back off and go back to cruisen it drops back down around 90. So That tells me the water pump doesnt circulate quick enough during boost. SO I gotta work on the pump issue.

I used 1 12oz water wetter bottle and 3/4gal water as my mixture in the intercooler.

I might try 2 bottles of water wetter and see the difference.

Over all its coming together. It runs strong down low. Im gettin a studder around 6800. I gotta do some more tuning. I think it needs a little more timing up top. im only running 16degree's timing @5-7000rpm@150-200kpa in my tune. once I get the studder out i will start upping the boost in small steps.

[rb25drag]

here is a little update of whats been going on the past few weeks.

I Killed my Wideband sensor against the frame of the car. It use to clear the frame But now its making some power and the motor is tq'ing up and beating the frame now. So I had to move my sensor to clear everything.

Here is my wounded sensor lol

I also been working on the studder issue. I did some data logs last night and looking back on them I think I found my issue.

I can rev 7400-7600 1st gear, 2nd I only get 6700-6800, and 3rd gear it will cut out 5200-5800.

So it seemed more of a load the quicker it cut out.

So as i studied the data logs and found the Studder starts at any thing over 180kpa on my map. which is around 13psi of boost. So It seemed as tho Im Blowing out the spark. Everything else was perfect on the data log. A/f varied from 11.6-12.4 (according to what boost psi I was at) So I know its not a lean pop nor a rich pop. Also it was Very steady on my timing.

So I figured I would test the waters and I went to the next setting on my wastegate (19psi) and figured I would see for sure if its blowing the spark out.

Sure enough I cant get above 5200rpm without it cutting out and it will NOT Boost above 15 without completly dying out. So im almost 100% im blowing spark out.

Now my options.First off i gotta get new plug wires. The ones I have is the factory ls2 plug wires off my chevy truck. They show to have 80,000 resistence per wire. a buddy of mine brought me some that has 20,000 resistence, So im going to throw those on there and get a little more energy from the coils. I also have my dwell settings turned down on the coils a little. Running there at 6.2ms with .6ms discharge.

I am finding out from my nascar tech buddy what I can turn the coils up to Safely. I believe he told me I can run them up to 8.0 ms safely. But I gotta confirm that.

So im still making progress. Just still fixing issue's

[Fibre guy]

What mounts are you using that would let it push against the chassis like that?

[rb25drag]

I have the stock r33 crossmember with the stock rubber motor mounts.

[TJcars2]

Should get some solid mounts soon or if you want some give, get some urethane ones.

[rb25drag]

I have no problem with the stock rubber mounts. I like them cause there is NO vibration and it makes everything very smooth. I have fixed the only issue they caused so far. Hopefully when I get to run some big boost they won't break!

[zerodameaon]

Coming along well

[slideways92]

You sponsored by hank hill and Strickland propane?

[rb25drag]

Well I finally figured out my issue yesterday. AS crazy as it sounds, but the motor was out running my data log and actually going lean and doing a Lean pop. The motor would go so lean so quick I could never catch it on my data log. My data log always showed 11.6-12.4 a/f readings. So yesterday I backed the boost down to10psi n done a street run and it went off the chart lean. It was slow enough that I caught it on the data log. So I added all the fuel my propane carb has and at 10psi I still go lean right at 7400rpm.

My theory is, Impco rated my carb at 400hp, Which the guy I deal with thought it would make more. With my intake temps at 90 degree's and boost at 10-12 + or - It shows im running out of carb, so the motor has to be making around 400hp.

I got a good enough tune on it im going to the dyno hopefully this weekend to confirm my theory. If true, then I gotta buy another carb to make any more power.

[rb25drag]

You sponsored by hank hill and Strickland propane?

HAHA never heard of them!

[mattblancarte]

You sponsored by hank hill and Strickland propane?

Well played, King of the Hill.

[l0nestar]

I hadn't read this in a while, just got caught up. Impressive to say the least! :

[240z4u]

MSD makes a pump controller that is based off of boost pressure. Would be neat to have that pump running at a lower capacity during idle and crank itself up under boost.

[Fibre guy]

Multi-port propane injection time?

[rb25drag]

MSD makes a pump controller that is based off of boost pressure. Would be neat to have that pump running at a lower capacity during idle and crank itself up under boost.

You talking about the fuel boost controller?

If so Thats how the propane converter works, I have a vacum line ran from my carb to the converter. Once it see's boost in the carb it pressurizes my converter opening the diafram more to add more fuel. There is 2 different springs pressure's I can run for more or less fuel pressure when boost is applied. Thats how it regulates itself for fuel.

Multi-port propane injection time?

We have found a Propane injection system were working on. Were going to be putting that on a mustang tho for testing. Were also looking into the Megasquirt 3 thats coming out for managing the injection system.

Maybe a few yrs down the road i can afford to go injection. But right now it has to stay how it is.