OFFICIAL: NICOclub Time Attack S13 Build Thread NOW WITH VIDEO

[Jake's coupe]

Some new picsthe hole in the floorbigger hole in the floorbracing for the new floor.that about it for now.

[pete240]

[QUOTE=MagikDragon]Intercooler is too large for a v mount...

Ah I see. I was just curious thats all. Good luck on the build.

[MagikDragon]

thanks for postin up those pics jake, awesomeness!!! too bad the car goes back to CT next weekend

[niemczykj]

WOOOT back to CT finaly... i wanna see it!...it like watching ur child grow up from a third person view. following this thread that is... very nice i cant wait

[Didderson]

edit because I don't want to thread jack totally, that was a side comment. I really am impressed with how far the build is going, and tonight's update shows some really quality hard work. +1 for nico!

Ahhh well, wait till you see how we'll keep that cooling under control. That was the most convenient place to mount it and the lack of the tig in the garage means no welding plates or brackets on intercoolers and oil coolers, feel free to crutique away, anyone. But, are you gonna volunteer the use of materials and tools? ahh didn't think so.

Alright alRIIIGHT. I never expected to get e-slapped by my regional moderator but eh, w/e. I wasn't trying to be mean, it's called constructive criticism. I haven't volunteered what i can because 1, i don't live within an hour or two of wherever this car happens to be at any given moment. 2, I'm sorry once I finish school I'll have a real job and a more stable residence and maybe i will have more non stock KA parts that i can contribute. Believe me, I contribute to my local friends around here, Hatches, clutches recently, we do what we can man. Please if you were directing that smug comment toward me refrain from putting words in my mouth. Thank you.

[taco_401]

good progress form last time i seen it looking pretty good

[the converted]

Alright alRIIIGHT. I never expected to get e-slapped by my regional moderator but eh, w/e. I wasn't trying to be mean, it's called constructive criticism. I haven't volunteered what i can because 1, i don't live within an hour or two of wherever this car happens to be at any given moment. 2, I'm sorry once I finish school I'll have a real job and a more stable residence and maybe i will have more non stock KA parts that i can contribute. Believe me, I contribute to my local friends around here, Hatches, clutches recently, we do what we can man. Please if you were directing that smug comment toward me refrain from putting words in my mouth. Thank you.

It's all good man. I'll apoligize for all of us. There's been quite a few "why the hell did you do that, your effing up the car" comments in this thread. I guess we have gotten a little defensive because there a few people who find it to easy to criticize how we are building the car and then cite completely irrelevant experience.

So while we do encourage and appreciate criticism because we know that there are other ideas that may be better than ours, it just becomes frustrating when people are just criticizing because they don't like what we have done. It's just hard to tell the difference sometimes.

[Jake's coupe]

couldn't have said it better Mark. Mark you see the new parts to the rad support?

[the converted]

Yeah great minds think alike, unfortunately it was James and not you that thought it up (afaik).

Side note this was my 240th post

[DJButton]

Dude, no hard feelings man, internet emotions ftl, I didn't mean to come across all harsh on you, just throwing out a friendly jibe as they say. I didn't think you were really critiquing it that harshly. For future reference though I am king of the interwebnets and am very offended when anyone questions my authoritah!

thanks for postin up those pics jake, awesomeness!!! too bad the car goes back to CT next weekend

Ahh, it's not all sad, just think now I can do oil changes in my garage and not on the wet grass. *insert I'm a whiner comment here*

[AceInhole]

the heat off that oil cooler is not going to be anywhere NEAR enough to make any type of noticable difference as far as intake temps go, although I personally have my oil cooler mounted in place of where the factory sidemount would be located, your idea is pretty cool

While heat from the oil cooler may not affect the intake temp, you're still reducing the airflow through the intercooler, as well as the radiator. I've known a few SR owners who've done roadcourse sessions to experience overheating problems with an unobstructed FMIC blocking the radiator, so I'd think cooling should be a major concern.

The question I have is: why was the floor cut? Extreme seat mounting?

[the converted]

The question I have is: why was the floor cut? Extreme seat mounting?

so my 6'3" *** can actually fit in with the cage. Even with the seat mounted right to the floor I'm going to be hitting a little.

[AceInhole]

I wonder if its the S13 roofline or the cage.... I've had a 6'3" 260lb co-driver in my S14 with a fixed back Pro2000 seat on sliders, and he wedged in there pretty well.

Have you tried tilting the seat at all?

[DJButton]

Well it has the Auto Power cage, which is not close fitting to the bodyline to say the least, that's where I'd put the blame. In a stock S13 a 6'2" 260lb friend can fit, with mild discomfort and no head clearence issues, in the time attack S13, he's not even close because of the cage though. It would be hard to tilt it because the seat is almost against the rear hoop as is to allow proper leg fitment, Mark also has ridiculously long legs.

While heat from the oil cooler may not affect the intake temp, you're still reducing the airflow through the intercooler, as well as the radiator. I've known a few SR owners who've done roadcourse sessions to experience overheating problems with an unobstructed FMIC blocking the radiator, so I'd think cooling should be a major concern.

We're planning on doing some preliminary testing, but I do agree with proper cooling being a big concern! Most early 90's Nissan engines I know of have problems staying cool, and of course much more so when turbocharged as you know. We still need to fab up some ducting for it through the front bumper opening too so we'll see how it works out.

[veilside180sx]

If you can't squeeze in that space then something is wrong. There are easier and safer ways of doing that then cutting out the floor.





When it comes to safety...you can't be too careful.
Modified by veilside180sx at 12:48 PM 11/20/2007

[AceInhole]

Upon closer inspection of the pictures posted, it looks as though you've cut into the lower frame rail, which combined with the floor and transmission tunnel (which has been cut out), provides a decent amount (if not the majority of) chassis rigidity. With the floor modifications done, I would be wary of passing it through a tech inspection, and I wouldn't be surprised if tech inspectors at any motorsport organization would share such sentiments.

At the very least, I'd ditch the sectioned portion of square tubing and replace it with single bent pieces, although ultimately, with the other known weak spots in that chassis, you might just be better off with a new car.

[DJButton]

Well I haven't seen any of the newest updates in person since I've been away but I definitaly share your feelings on the problem areas on this chassis. It does look like the floor on top of the rail was cut, I really hope not, but I leave one of the others to further explain it. In retrospect we should have started out with a cleaner and better chassis, and will do next time for sure.

Veilside180sx I appreciate your concern, however I don't really see how your comment helps us at all, and pictures of a different car don't really show whatever it is that your trying to say.

[AceInhole]

Veilside180sx I appreciate your concern, however I don't really see how your comment helps us at all, and pictures of a different car don't really show whatever it is that your trying to say.

I think what he was showing is the large amount of headroom that you can get in an S13. If you've sat in a Sparco Evo seat you'd have a better idea of how much headroom is there (your head wouldn't be much higher than the top of the seat).

[the converted]

Upon closer inspection of the pictures posted, it looks as though you've cut into the lower frame rail, which combined with the floor and transmission tunnel (which has been cut out), provides a decent amount (if not the majority of) chassis rigidity. With the floor modifications done, I would be wary of passing it through a tech inspection, and I wouldn't be surprised if tech inspectors at any motorsport organization would share such sentiments.

At the very least, I'd ditch the sectioned portion of square tubing and replace it with single bent pieces, although ultimately, with the other known weak spots in that chassis, you might just be better off with a new car.

Your partway right, we didn't cut into the framerail just up to it. considering that there was just sheetmetal between the transmission hump and the frame rail, I would be hard pressed to see how cutting out sheetmetal, welding in a new subframe thats providing more support than the nothing that was there and then welding in new thicker sheetmetal to replace the thin spotwelded factory sheetmetal could possibly weaken the car at all.

If you can't squeeze in that space then something is wrong. There are easier and safer ways of doing that then cutting out the floor.

When it comes to safety...you can't be too careful.

Modified by veilside180sx at 12:48 PM 11/20/2007

Do you propose that we raise the roof? I don't fit in a stock 240, nevermind with a cage and a helmet on.

[the converted]

I think what he was showing is the large amount of headroom that you can get in an S13. If you've sat in a Sparco Evo seat you'd have a better idea of how much headroom is there (your head wouldn't be much higher than the top of the seat).

Because we have never sat in a sparco evo seat......

[eazye2000]

Because we have never sat in a sparco evo seat......

I was going to say... I thought there was one around there somewhere..
Modified by eazye2000 at 5:30 PM 11/20/2007

[AceInhole]

Because we have never sat in a sparco evo seat......

I wasn't implying that you hadn't, but moreso that it was a viable reference.

As for the structural integrity, I'm sure it's possible to reinforce the insert enough to be stronger than the stock sheet metal. In reality, the cage should take a lot of the load off the frame. However, you're still placing an OEM load bearing structure in question by aggressively modifying it. It's another thing for a tech inspector to scrutinize, and for the most part, I'd be worried that it wouldn't pass tech.

I'll see if I can pass it along to some road racing tech officials and see if they can provide any objective input.

[the converted]

The other thing is that I know of at least two other cars that have done this. Lifted this from dent sports website

I know for a fact that maxis did this to their car as well.

[AceInhole]

I'm guessing since Bill has run it through a few events it should be passable. I'm not sure how he got around the Redline Time Attack rules though... it's pretty blatantly in violation of:Quote »- Entire original factory Floor pan must be in place[/quote]Unless he somehow passed it through a major stretch of:Quote »- Fuel Cells permitted (modification of factory floor pan is allowed for installation of Fuel Cell)[/quote]But, that was my understanding from the website:http://www.gtlivetour.com/even...s.pdf

I'd be interested to know if the rules have changed, as I'd gone over them with a few friends running the Redline/ GT Live series.

[the converted]

We talked to a few of the redline people when we were down at VIR running our street cars in time attack. Their word was as long as the purpose of it was not to save weight or increase performance that it would be fine. They said that the spirit of the rule was to stop people from building underpans and things of that nature and that simply making a place to bolt a seat to was no problem at all.

[MagikDragon]

I'm guessing since Bill has run it through a few events it should be passable. I'm not sure how he got around the Redline Time Attack rules though... it's pretty blatantly in violation of:

Unless he somehow passed it through a major stretch of:

But, that was my understanding from the website:http://www.gtlivetour.com/even...s.pdf

I'd be interested to know if the rules have changed, as I'd gone over them with a few friends running the Redline/ GT Live series.

Hi Chris, Can we remove a hump and make a custom piece in the floor pan to make room for a tall driver (S13 chassis)?Sean Dragonetti

Hi Sean,

You can make room for your driver, but nothing that will cause a dramatic reduction of weight. Let me know if you have any more questions.Thanks,Chris Willardhttp://www.RedlineTimeAttack.com

STRAIGHT FROM THE HORSE'S MOUTH

[AceInhole]

We talked to a few of the redline people when we were down at VIR running our street cars in time attack. Their word was as long as the purpose of it was not to save weight or increase performance that it would be fine. They said that the spirit of the rule was to stop people from building underpans and things of that nature and that simply making a place to bolt a seat to was no problem at all.

Thats good to know. It seems as though they're still sorting their rules, but that's what such clarifications are for.

[Jake's coupe]

And if they don't pass us we will kick the S**T out of them till we pass. Thats what im here for anyway

[DJButton]

I think what he was showing is the large amount of headroom that you can get in an S13. If you've sat in a Sparco Evo seat you'd have a better idea of how much headroom is there (your head wouldn't be much higher than the top of the seat).

No, I see the point he was trying to make... however those weren't pictures of an S13 as far as I could tell. Your contructive critisicm I appreciate, when people just make random remarks though it makes me concerned as to their mental capabilities! LOL

BTW -OT PJ hopefully I can actually make it to some local events next year it'd be great to meet at some point.

[PapaSmurf2k3]

I think its an S13 coupe. Thats what my windows and rear glass look like, and that is what my headliner/roof looked like before I hacked it up and put in a bitchin sunroof.