Obama wants to bail out big 3

[Jesda]

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/0...ments

Booooo.

[OriginalWheelman]

What's that? It's the sound of the UAW bleeding the big three dry. Better get our money in there to save them.

[MinisterofDOOM]

Um...Isn't this a little late?

[VMPhil]

UAW needs to be reworked or this is just going to happen again. The Major retirement payouts to White collar execs is killing the companies, yet its the blue collar people that get screwed when its time to fix the budget. As richie rich said, if we are to trim the fat we need to start right here *pats belly*

[Hijacker]

I agree that the execs really need to take a step back and look at the big picture, but it'll never happen.

Also, if the big 3 tank, a good portion of our nation's economy will go with it. A lot of our industry and infrastructure are tied into them.

[Rex]

Um...Isn't this a little late?

Not if you're trying to get the Union Vote this November.

Moving to Politics ...

[OriginalWheelman]

Also, if the big 3 tank, a good portion of our nation's economy will go with it. A lot of our industry and infrastructure are tied into them.

Which part? The GMs made in Mexico, the Fords made in Canada, or the foreign owned Chrysler? The UAW is bull****. $40 / hr to put bolts in on an assembly line. I thought unions were for skilled labor.

[rn79870]

It's all about getting votes in November. Getting the Union endorcement never hurts a campaign.

In reality I liked the bail out program Toyota offered GM a year ago. Let Toyota buy GM and watch that company turn around in a few short years.

[dickie]

well ****, here i was thinking GM could bail itself out by revamping the Pontiac brand and offering us versions of their Euro-brands' cars (GTO, G8, solstice/sky).

time to pull off the bloodsucking parasite that is union labor and put the unemployed to work.

[AZhitman]

time to pull off the bloodsucking parasite that is union labor and put the unemployed to work.

Yay Obama - Glad to see you returning to your true Liberal roots, where Government is the answer to everyone's problems and no one has to suffer the consequences of stupid decisions....

DO NOT for one second believe the lefty lies that allowing the Big 3 to suffer will "crash" our economy. Capitalism is a wonderful thing in that it's self-healing, if we just LEAVE IT ALONE. Trying to artificially meddle in economic affairs only causes more problems. Remember, money is like matter - it's not created or destroyed, just redistributed.

The sky is not falling, and it's high time the UAW reaped the fruits of their failed ideologies.

[AZhitman]

"I would provide real solutions necessary to help this industry compete and win in the global economy."

Hmmmm. That's racist.

Where's the bailout for Honda? Toyota? Nissan? Hyundai?

What?

They don't need it? Why's that?

OOOHH - I see. Because they're not Corporate Welfare. Because they compete on their merits. Because if they fail, they change course and fix the problem. Because they find out what consumers want, and BUILD IT.

Interesting how the Japanese and Koreans "get" Capitalism more than we do.

Obama is a Socialist. Don't be fooled, folks.

[rn79870]

Hmmmm. That's racist.

Where's the bailout for Honda? Toyota? Nissan? Hyundai?

Well, Greg, Honda, Toyota, Nissan and Hyundai are not "races" "creeds" or "national origions."

Example, "Man I dated this hot chick from Honda last night. The two of us and her Nissan girlfriend rocked until her Hyundai boyfriend called and wanted to come over with his Toyota friend.

Come on Greg, is the coffee machine broke?

Obama is a Socialist. Don't be fooled, folks.

Well then, we're faced with a choice between a socialist and a military dictator. Spending money for America and Americans vs. what ever McCain calls his foreigh plan.

[skylndrftr]

I disagree with this, its pretty much to win the unions over...

they don't build the cars here. I am under the impression (correct me if I am wrong) Toyota builds all of the cars that it sells here...here.

the damn UAW isn't even helping its members anymore the problem is they just don't realize it.

[HashiriyaS14]

A.) He's doing this to win votes with the "coffee democrats", i.e. non-college-educated white Dems, a demographic where he doesn't do so well. They love the domestic auto industry and US manufacturing in general, and this will win him points. He's doing it for political reasons to get elected, not because he's a socialist.

B.) The Big 3 have to deal with all sorts of problems that the foreign automakers don't, primarily the UAW. I think that a condition of the gov't bailout should be switching all of them to non-union but still domestic labor, but that would totally negate the political gain for Obama.

[mtcookson]

they don't build the cars here. I am under the impression (correct me if I am wrong) Toyota builds all of the cars that it sells here...here.

Foreign companies with plants in the US with some info one a few of them:

BMWHonda - First one over here, lots of plants as they do more than cars hereHyundai/KiaMazda - basically with Ford, I think only a few true Mazda models come out of the US like the Mazda 6Mercedes-BenzMitsubishiNissan - 12 U.S. divisions, all Nissan trucks since the early 80's have been built in the U.S., a lot of the compact cars come from MexicoSubaru - 7 U.S. divisionsToyota - 13 U.S. divisions, over half of the Toyota branded vehicles in the U.S. are built in the U.S. Scion and some Lexus models are built in either Japan or Canada.

[AZhitman]

A.) He's doing this to win votes with the "coffee democrats", i.e. non-college-educated white Dems, a demographic where he doesn't do so well. They love the domestic auto industry and US manufacturing in general, and this will win him points. He's doing it for political reasons to get elected, not because he's a socialist.

B.) The Big 3 have to deal with all sorts of problems that the foreign automakers don't, primarily the UAW. I think that a condition of the gov't bailout should be switching all of them to non-union but still domestic labor, but that would totally negate the political gain for Obama.

Brilliant.

And for what it's worth, my "racist" comment was a joke.

[smockers83]

Car manufacturing is still true and true in the US, its just not as big as it used to be, but its still a big business. The main reason the State of Michigan is in the tank is because of the Big 3 and their manufacturing. But what needs to happen is the UAW needs to either be dismantled or they need to start completely over with a market price for their workers--their workers are way overpaid. I constantly hear stories of workers watching TV while on the job, sleeping on the job, having grill-outs on the job where they can't be seen. The reason our foreign competitors can stay afloat and the Big 3 can't is because of cheap labor in that they don't have to deal with unions--they are able to pay market price for their labor whereas the union puts a markup on that price.

Any campaign that tries to get the vote of a major union is a -1 for me. I'm not that big of a supporter for unions of today--I would be a supporter of unions from when unions first started though. I don't agree with a complete bailout as that just puts us further down the path of socialism, but I would agree with tax breaks or some money being lended or something just to help a little bit. I believe in business cycles, but if one gets too bad, then something needs to be done because if they disappear now, they'll never be back or they will be sold at a huge discount to foreign investors never again to see the hands of US ownership.

[rn79870]

Brilliant.

And for what it's worth, my "racist" comment was a joke.

Gotcha.

[WDRacing]

I don't like Corp assistance on any level. When are they going to help me...oh yeah never.

Make a bad decision, bankrupt like the rest. Or bail out every single small bussiness owner that is feeling the crunch...

Obama is just a typical politician...

WD

[AZhitman]

Think forum owners could get a government handout because the economy is killing us?

How about State employees?

Unions have worn out their welcome. I see it every day when a Union rep comes in to sit in on one of my investigative interviews...

My first comment to them is to keep their mouth shut because 90% of the time, the employee does just fine without their help.

[Encryptshun]

Obama is a Socialist. Don't be fooled, folks.

Um, that's like saying Windows Vista is an operating system.

[OriginalWheelman]

Um, that's like saying Windows Vista is an operating system.

Please make your comments make sense in the future, for all our benefit.

[Encryptshun]

Please make your comments make sense in the future, for all our benefit.

Hmmm. I thought it made perfect sense.

The Democratic platform is Socialist. Obama is a Democrat. Therefore Obama is a Socialist.

Windows is an operating system. Windows Vista is a version of Windows. Therefore Windows Vista is an operating system.

Both Obama and Vista were "released" and distributed before they were ready -- having been insufficiently tested, poorly scripted, and without regard to any true functionality issues (also both are too graphics intensive). Therefore neither are prime examples of their ilk, but both are remarkably similar to each other. EDIT* And the American people are stuck having to look at both on a screen almost daily because the old version has been discontinued.

[WDRacing]

Hmmm. I thought it made perfect sense.

The Democratic platform is Socialist. Obama is a Democrat. Therefore Obama is a Socialist.

Windows is an operating system. Windows Vista is a version of Windows. Therefore Windows Vista is an operating system.

Both Obama and Vista were "released" and distributed before they were ready -- having been insufficiently tested, poorly scripted, and without regard to any true functionality issues (also both are too graphics intensive). Therefore neither are prime examples of their ilk, but both are remarkably similar to each other.

Well played sir

[elwesso]

Ive kinda been on the back end of the American automotive market since working at Remy...

Most of the employees here have worked for Guide lamp, delphi, etc...

Quick example. Anderson, IN (where I live) used to employ 25,000 people under GM, with Delphi, Delco-Remy, Guide, and GM. At one point in time, pretty much all the Remy plants were in Anderson. There are many cases, but I've talked to people that have worked since the old days (80s)..

in retrospect, everything couldn't have worked out worse.. Decreased demand for american cars (or rather, more competition) AND more demands from the union.

Quote »their workers are way overpaid. I constantly hear stories of workers watching TV while on the job, sleeping on the job, having grill-outs on the job where they can't be seen. The reason our foreign competitors can stay afloat and the Big 3 can't is because of cheap labor in that they don't have to deal with unions--they are able to pay market price for their labor whereas the union puts a markup on that price.[/quote]Couldnt agree more. A guy I met that works at remy used to be an ME for Guide and he said that people had mattresses in the rafters of the plant.. They would also take turns taking everyones card to clock in and out and then just clock in and leave.. In the case of Guide there were a few things that caused them to stop operations, but in the case of Remy it was 100% union.

The thing that makes me sad about Guide is that they developed so many new technologies and its all wasted now.. They developed a way to model headlights in about 1/4th the time it took conventionally, and at one point in time they were the largest user of thermoplastics in the world.

As far as im concerned, if you are a laborer with only a high school education theres no reason for you to make more than $15-$20 hour to sit around and make parts. Average GM employee makes $70/hr with benefits.. Thats pretty dang good!

Heres what gets me every time... The union demands that more jobs stay in america, yet they demand more money... They ***** when they dont get their money, but they'll be a lot mroe pissed when they get laid off and their plant turns into a field like about 10 plants in Anderson have... money doesnt grow on trees..

For a bailout bill, i think all its going to do is increase their profit because theres no way american companies will bring jobs back to america when they pay Mexican's an average of $3/hour, pay minimal benefits, and have no union like we do in the US... honestly, the big 3 would be absolutely stupid to bring operations BACK to america.. Mexicans work harder than Americans in many respects, and its just a cheaper operation to deal with. Mexicans work differently than americans, they like their breaks but when they work they work hard, ive seen it first hand.. Additonally, theyre absenteeism is VERY low compared to America. In the US, 2nd shift on friday night could be as high as 50% plant wide, whereas the highest rate in Mexico is around 8-10%.. How the HELL can you hire 50% more workers than you need and expect to compete?

The UAW had their chance, they blew it because they were greedy, and all those people who retired at age 48 are living the right life now, only to screw over everyone else.. The really REALLY sad part is I've asked a few people, and if it wasnt for the insanity of the union, many of our plants could still be in operation here in little Anderson, IN and many other places around the country. Its not like the automotive companies dont have money, but they dont have unlimited funds to pay a bunch of non-educated people 60k a year with HUGE benefits.. they could at one point, cant anymore!

[confedup]

Hmmm. I thought it made perfect sense.

The Democratic platform is Socialist. Obama is a Democrat. Therefore Obama is a Socialist.

Windows is an operating system. Windows Vista is a version of Windows. Therefore Windows Vista is an operating system.

Both Obama and Vista were "released" and distributed before they were ready -- having been insufficiently tested, poorly scripted, and without regard to any true functionality issues (also both are too graphics intensive). Therefore neither are prime examples of their ilk, but both are remarkably similar to each other. EDIT* And the American people are stuck having to look at both on a screen almost daily because the old version has been discontinued.

WOW

That's an awesome summation

[wingFeather]

Typical liberal Democrat... "Throw money at it & call it a day!"

It's all about getting votes in November.

That pretty much sums up Obama's campaign

[Cold_Zero]

I am pretty much dead set against a bail out of the Big 3. If the US Government bails them out what have they learned? Nothing? And I am afraid they will employ the same business practices that they have been using for the past 50 years. I also seem to remember Mitt Romney campaigning in Michigan and calling for Automotive Summit to be held in the first 100 days of his Administration and the government to help assist the Big 3 to get the local Michigan economy rolling again.

I love how pretty much everyone puts the sole blame on the big bad Unions (UAW). You do realize guys, that contract arbitrations are a TWO WAY street? GM, FORD and Chrysler dont have to agree to the demands of the United Auto Workers. Of course then too they then have to deal with strikes, slow downs and work stoppages. We here in Indiana have seen massive parts and manufacturing plant closings (GM and Chrysler) and job lay offs due to the Big 3 moving production and assembly south of the border. It pretty much sucks that most industrial companies have moved production to Mexico or areas with cheap labor. But to all of you that criticize the UAW for trying to secure the best possible contract for its workers, do you propose that auto workers make the same kind of money that works in Mexico do? Cheap labor is like crack to industrial companies. I would also like to point out that the workers at foreign plants here in the US can organize just as easy as the Big 3 shops did years ago. It is the law.

It isnt the UAW that loses billions of dollars on the books for the Big Three. Literally, GM has had quarters where they literally can not account for money lost on their books. Its as if the money just 'disappears' from the books. With accounting like this its no wonder these guys are in trouble. Also, was it the UAW that under funded the Delphi Workers Pension Fund to the tune of 5 billion dollars? Nope, it was GM's ****up. Eliminating the labor unions wont solve the big 3's problems. Nor would under minding foreign competitors. This issue is a lot more complex than just eliminating the UAW and foreign competition. I am pro union, I may not like their stances, but I like the fact that unions protect my (teacher) family members and look out for their best interest.

[AZhitman]

Someone find me an address so I can mail this letter:

July 29, 2008

Dear Senator Obama and Associated Obamallamas -

I am a business owner. I seem to have mismanaged my company's funds through poor planning, corporate welfare, and helping uneducated workers live beyond their means. The product I sell is somewhat inferior, but I don't care, because I know what consumers REALLY want, and besides, those who buy from my competition are communist bastards and should die.

Anyway, I have started getting letters from creditors, and my stakeholders are starting to blow me off. They're idiots, but I kinda really need their money. I think it's OK if foreign companies who employ US workers go under, but I'm an American. I deserve special treatment.

For these reasons, Senator, I'd like to request a big box of money and some low-interest long-term loans to bail me out of my predicament. There's no need to send the GAO to keep track, I have a cute little Accountant with big boobs who can add and subtract.

Please address the bundle of cash to me directly, and hurry up with it. I promise we won't use the word "bailout", as that has a negative connotation.

Thanks, and good job on kicking Hillary's a$$.

Your Loyal Servant

- Greg

[dickie]

send pics of said accountant to my home address