Obama To Muslims- US Not Your Enemy

[Cold_Zero]

http://www.foxnews.com/politic...twork/

Well, Halle Berry-luia, its about time someone apologize for the nasty remarks that Americans have presented towards Islam. Now can you guys give us back Constantinople?

Helio and Z,

I hope you never thought that we viewed YOU as an enemy of this country. On behalf of the NICO community, in a Slick Willy tone, I would like to say, "I'm Sorry." Shall be interesting to see where this goes. I can't help but wonder if the word Islam or Muslim will be taken out of terms like Extremist Islamic Terror Groups, or IslamoFacist. You know, maybe if we change the name of terror groups, they will like us better. bud

[OriginalWheelman]

I don't think any amount of apologizing by anyone is going to make anyone in the middle east treat us better.

[HashiriyaS14]

I don't think any amount of apologizing by anyone is going to make anyone in the middle east treat us better.

This is a very, very dangerous assumption.

You are, in effect, saying that it doesn't matter how we act towards Islamic nations because it will never change how a few radicals view us.

And that's absolutely true, but that doesn't mean that it won't change how the vast majority of those nations, people who are NOT radicals, will view us. We need to appeal to THEM. We'll never reform radical terrorists, but we can make the terrorists unpopular among their own people by appealing to the better natures of the rest of the population.

We will *never* substantially scale back the terrorlst threat without the enthusiastic cooperation of the majority of the Islamic population.

I don't necessarily think that we should "apologize", but we SHOULD be less unilateral, offer more aid and assistance, and generally be out for "hearts and minds".

Hamas is popular in Gaza because they build schools, they fund public works projects, and they provide food and monetary aid. In return, the population of Gaza puts up with the trouble that they invite with their murderous activities.

Why can't we build those schools, fund those projects, and provide that aid? Don't you think that the people would rather get it from us, knowing that getting it from us will not entail an infinite loop of reciprocal destruction that will kill them and their family members?

[Cold_Zero]

Anyone let down that Obama's first big meeting with the Press was with Al Arabiya? And he had this conversation with the Middle East first and not the American people?

Can anyone say appeasement?

[Armelius]

I just caught someone in the Middle East saying all types of bad things about Israel saying the holocaust was a lie or something like that so that Israel can be established in the muslem world. I am not sure who said that but if that sort of message gets heard to people in the middle east then there probably won't be peace in the middle east.

To me Obama is falling into that sort of trap just by saying we are not your enemy (but we are friends to your enemy).

It would be stronger to say we are going at this with a clean slate and without any adversaries or to be too one sided but the people who will be peaceful will get the most bailout money. Something like that.

[heliochrome85]

I just caught someone in the Middle East saying all types of bad things about Israel saying the holocaust was a lie or something like that so that Israel can be established in the muslem world. I am not sure who said that but if that sort of message gets heard to people in the middle east then there probably won't be peace in the middle east.

To me Obama is falling into that sort of trap just by saying we are not your enemy (but we are friends to your enemy).

It would be stronger to say we are going at this with a clean slate and without any adversaries or to be too one sided but the people who will be peaceful will get the most bailout money. Something like that.

what the hell is that supposed to mean? until you can learn to work within the rules of modern standard english, maybe you should let the adults talk....

On point, i think that his stance is very very positive. We have never seen this much attention from a US president. Honestly, the region is excited. While you can not win over the radicals, you CAN marginalize them. How do you make Alqaeda and their friends minor players, you strengthn the region so that their crazy ideology doesnt have anywhere to take root. There have been some excellent articles recently about the region...

http://lynch.foreignpolicy.com...abiya

http://www.newyorker.com/talk/...mnick

http://lynch.foreignpolicy.com..._well

[Armelius]

what the hell is that supposed to mean? until you can learn to work within the rules of modern standard english, maybe you should let the adults talk....

On point, i think that his stance is very very positive. We have never seen this much attention from a US president. Honestly, the region is excited. While you can not win over the radicals, you CAN marginalize them. How do you make Alqaeda and their friends minor players, you strengthn the region so that their crazy ideology doesnt have anywhere to take root. There have been some excellent articles recently about the region...

http://lynch.foreignpolicy.com...abiya

http://www.newyorker.com/talk/...mnick

http://lynch.foreignpolicy.com..._well

Very very positive? Is that how adults talk? Maybe you stutter. Bush wanted to marginalize a leader named Saddam. He did this while reading a book to Booker Elementary School attendees.

[ishkabibble]

I don't think any amount of apologizing by anyone is going to make anyone in the middle east treat us better.

Why not?

[Cold_Zero]

On point, i think that his stance is very very positive. We have never seen this much attention from a US president. Honestly, the region is excited. While you can not win over the radicals, you CAN marginalize them. How do you make Alqaeda and their friends minor players, you strengthn the region so that their crazy ideology doesnt have anywhere to take root. There have been some excellent articles recently about the region...

While I dont necessarily disagree with what you said, can I ask, why does it take attention from POTUS in order to 'excite' people in the region into doing something about their problems? To me it sounds like a big brother (Israel), little brother (Arabs) situation fighting over how much attention they get from their parents (USA?)bud

[heliochrome85]

you know why, because the US has hampered efforts for years for peace to come about. Rather than intervening on behalf of peace, they have squelched votes by the security council condemiing israel, they have provided weaponry, and artillery to the israeli IDF, and have shunned most of the power players in the region, eg, Syria and Iran. Iran can be solved by some attention from Obama as can Syria. both are in a position where the the time is ripe for policy change. Syria has been without a US Ambassador for over 3 years now. How do i know? I live on the same street as the embassy, and across the street from the presidential palace in Damascus. Case in point, there is a building next door to the US embassy. its big and protected. you know what the word on the street is? Its the incoming Israeli embassy. If that isnt an indicator of how the winds have shifted in favor of peace, i dont know what is.

[480sx]

This whole thread is full of win.

Can anyone say appeasement?

Bad reference. This isnt Nazi super power Germany were talking about, not even close. The reverse is true as well.. I would imagine that Israel is paying close attention to the FP changes that BO is making as we speak. It will definitely have a large effect on their country.

The real 'war' is for the hearts and minds of the majority of the people in the middle east. THIS is how the 'war on terror' will be won(if anyone ever wakes up). Thats how we can stamp out the majority of terrorism in under 100 years.

To me it sounds like a big brother (Israel), little brother (Arabs) situation fighting over how much attention they get from their parents (USA?)

In a strange way, this might be partially true if you look at it as an analogy.

Its way more than that however, no POTUS has ever reached out to the Arab nations the way BO is doing now. Imagine seeing America for years and years support Israel, fight communists, ect and never do really much of anything except bomb and fvk with the middle east in ways we should have no business doing. Then suddenly, he emerges. A new face, reaching out with the prospect of hope for US/Arab foriegn relations. How would this NOT excite an arab country? In addition, The guys name is freaken Barack Hussein Obama. A black, POTUS, with a muslimish name. Again, how could this NOT create excitement in the middle east? Its like a slap in the face(in a good way) for every ones preconceived notion of America, and Americans.

Some great stuff Helio, keep it coming.

[mcheddadi]

I am muslim yay!

[BusyBadger]

While you can not win over the radicals, you CAN marginalize them. Quote »

THIS is how the 'war on terror' will be won(if anyone ever wakes up). Thats how we can stamp out the majority of terrorism in under 100 years.

The war on terror will be won much the way the Berlin Wall was torn down and the Cold War (for all intents and purposes) was won: with Levi's & rock 'n roll.

Maybe it should be updated to American Idol and iPod's but its all the same, Western Culture is incredibly infectious. The internet in all of its instant access to all things worldwide makes it very easy for those less fortuante to see the West and know that they want what we have. At that point its only a matter of time before those that want realize who and what is preventing them from enjoying much of what we have.

[OriginalWheelman]

This is a very, very dangerous assumption.

You are, in effect, saying that it doesn't matter how we act towards Islamic nations because it will never change how a few radicals view us.

Why not?

We can not apologize because an apology is an admission of guilt. If we apologize, we vindicate the terrorists.

[HashiriyaS14]

We can not apologize because an apology is an admission of guilt. If we apologize, we vindicate the terrorists.

Did you *read* my post? The part where I specifically said that we should not apologize but that we should do other things?

Reaching out and apologizing aren't the same thing.

Helio and BusyBadger are on the money.

Marginalize the terrorists, appeal to the general population. Hearts and Minds.

[Jesda]

Oh hell, GWB spent 7 of his 8 years playing super pals with the Saudis. Didn't change the fact that the crazies are still crazy.

I give Mr O credit for trying, as long as his words don't result in limp-d!ck appeasement.

I support Israel but I really, really, really wish I didn't have to do it with tax money.

[Urabus GodofTraction]

Oh man, Pres. Obama, what a revolutionary idea! Those poor, ignorant Muslims just didn't know we aren't the bad buys!

On Iran: Iran is a 2nd string player attempting to find a way to hold the coach hostage so it can become a 1st string player. An international attention-whore with big dreams. I'm unsure the proper route to take to solve the issue, though.

[szh]

Oh hell, GWB spent 7 of his 8 years playing super pals with the Saudis. Didn't change the fact that the crazies are still crazy.

The Saudi royal family is not the average Arab population.

Z

[heliochrome85]

what are you talking about? i have a magic carpet, and im getting my car dipped in gold chrome. just like the guy who did it in abu dhabi with his C63 AMG.

[AZhitman]

what are you talking about? i have a magic carpet, and im getting my car dipped in gold chrome.

GOTS MAH TOWEL. I CAN HAZ HAREM PLZ?



Love ya, Tariq.

[heliochrome85]

for pictures of said BEAUTY:

/dirka dirka

[AZhitman]

All that work, and yet stock wheels. Money =/= good taste.

BTW, where I'm from, they call that an E.A.V.

Ethnically Altered Vehicle.

[Cold_Zero]

What the hell were we originally talking about?

As a side note, I while in agony last night, I watched National Geographic Channel's expose on Saddam's Reign of Torture. http://channel.nationalgeograp...rview

There is no doubt in my mind that even though we never found the WMDs, we did the right thing for the region and for the world that we took down the Tyrannical Hussein Family.

[OriginalWheelman]

What the hell were we originally talking about?

My crystal ball works.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7855444.stm

[ishkabibble]

There is no doubt in my mind that even though we never found the WMDs, we did the right thing for the region and for the world that we took down the Tyrannical Hussein Family.

For anyone who feels this way, I'm just wondering: Are you going to sign up to help rebuild Iraq? Donate most of your paycheck to help pay for the war? Donate your time and effort to support the families of deceased veterans, and maimed soldiers? Help out in some other significant way? If not, why not?

[heliochrome85]

My crystal ball works.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7855444.stm

how bout this:http://www.foreignpolicy.com/s...=4650

[Kalypso]

I don't think any amount of apologizing by anyone is going to make anyone in the middle east treat us better.

yes it definitely matters...

world peace is definitely possible, If we convey maturaity, avoid our notorious meddling, and better ourselves as a nation: everything improves.

but we can't get far with that sh*tty attitude.

Spread love everyday

[Jesda]

The Saudi royal family is not the average Arab population.

Z

President Obama isn't the average American either.

[Cold_Zero]

For anyone who feels this way, I'm just wondering: Are you going to sign up to help rebuild Iraq? Donate most of your paycheck to help pay for the war? Donate your time and effort to support the families of deceased veterans, and maimed soldiers? Help out in some other significant way? If not, why not?

Already do on so many levels. Thanks to Uncle George W and the loose and fast spending to fund the Iraq War, not only am I spending my paycheck to pay for the war and rebuilding efforts, but my daughter and her children will likely pick up the bill after I repose in peace.

Whether it is at work (sending care packages to soldiers in country or out of country , IE at Veterans Hospitals) or through church or personally, I do give time and money to these efforts. I must confess that it is not a majority of my charitable giving (time and money) as the main emphasis of my charitable giving focuses on Women and Family Services centers in Milwaukee and Indianapolis and a minor emphasis to feeding the local poor.

But can I ask (this isnt a ‘witch hunt’), because I am always curious with the nature of this counter argument, do you guys who use this argument give your time, money and effort to help people? I am not necessarily talking about veterans and trying to compensate for a political view that you hold dearly, I am talking about general giving like that to the poor, the orphans and the widows? I suspect (and want to be proved wrong) that the people who use this level of argument, themselves do not practice what they employ as a counter argument. This sparked my interest ever since someone in an Abortion thread in this forum used that argument to hopefully shut me up, which didnt work.

[S13_love]

There is no doubt in my mind that even though we never found the WMDs, we did the right thing for the region and for the world that we took down the Tyrannical Hussein Family.

I agree with ya on this that it was good to take down Hussein

...but...

I have to do disagree with you on that whole doing the right thing for the region part. What I mean by that is when we took down Saddam, we brought political instability to that area....therefore making that country vulnerable. That gave the radicals a chance to start all kinds of mayhem as you can see.