Obama supporters have unrealistic expectations of his Presidency?

[audtatious]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/t...8.ece

"Barack Obama’s senior advisers have drawn up plans to lower expectations for his presidency if he wins next week’s election, amid concerns that many of his euphoric supporters are harbouring unrealistic hopes of what he can achieve."

Sounds like even his own staff have low expectations of his Presidency

[telcoman]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/t...8.ece

"Barack Obama’s senior advisers have drawn up plans to lower expectations for his presidency if he wins next week’s election, amid concerns that many of his euphoric supporters are harbouring unrealistic hopes of what he can achieve."

Sounds like even his own staff have low expectations of his Presidency

What we have witnessed during these past eight years during a failed Bush presidency is not going to get corrected overnight. Not by anyone!Assuming Obama is going to win next Tuesday why not at least give the man a chance?Even though I didn't vote for Bush, when he stood on the pile of rubble of the WTC right after 9/11, my thoughts after listening to him was well maybe he could turn out to be a good president?

Well boy was my thinking wrong and my initial instincts were correct in the voting booth.

We'll just have to wait and see what happens on Tuesday?

Telcoman

[audtatious]

What failed Bush Presidency?

He inherited a recession from Clinton AND had 9/11 and kept the economy from imploding. Lowered taxes which resulted in more income to the Gov. Tried to work towards privatizing Social Security (blocked by Dems who are now looking into taxing income used for 401k's and creating a mandatory deduction to the SSA at a measly 3% return). Provided money to help states assist disabled working from home. Reduced taxes on dividends and capital gains. Made permanent the $5,000 adoption tax credit. Granted a complete tax exemption for prepaid or college tuition savings plans. Killed the Kyoto Global Warming Treaty. Changed parts of the Forestry Management Act to allow necessary cleanup of the national forests in order to reduce fire danger. Provided matching grants for state programs that help private landowners protect rare species. Disarmed Libya of its chemical, nuclear and biological WMD's. Killed the old US/Soviet Union ABM Treaty that was preventing the U.S. from deploying our ABM defenses. Pushed through three raises for our military. Signed the largest nuclear arms reduction in world history with Russia. Paid back UN dues only in return for reforms and reduction of U.S. share of the costs. Told the UN the to shove their International Ban on Small Arms Trafficking Treaty up their butts. Strengthened the National Health Service Corps to put more physicians in the neediest areas, and make its scholarship funds tax-free. Doubled the research budget of the National Institutes of Health. Initiated Medicare reform. Signed the workplace verification bill to prevent hiring of illegal aliens. Established a six-month deadline for processing immigration applications. Supports class action reform bill which limits lawyer fees so that more settlement money goes to victims. Started the USA Freedom Corps. etc...etc...etc...etc...

He has done a good job on numerous issues which you and others simply want to ignore. He's also won the war in Iraq regardless of how much the Dems want us to lose and accuse our troops of being killers and rapists.

[Cold_Zero]

I had a thought today while making my coffee.

Obama and candidates like him are like that Double Quarter Pounder from McDonalds. Standing in line when you are hungry you look up at that big menu and think, "Man that burger looks really good and for a good price." You pay for the meal, sit down and get ready to eat. When you inspect your food you realize something has gone horribly wrong. Somewhere from the picture on the menu to your plate you got mediocre food that looks nothing like the how the picture portrayed it, that has no real nutritional value, is the lowest common denominator and that you realize you probably over paid for the product. You eat it anyways because you made the choice and already paid for the product. You feel like **** for the rest of the night because it sits in your stomach like a lead weight, did not fill you up and you have buyer’s remorse.

That is what voting for Obama would do for me.

[audtatious]

VERY good analogy

[Cold_Zero]

I think that politics suffers same fate of a Post Consumer society where everyone has been marketed to ad nauseam.

[marlin29311]

I had a thought today while making my coffee.

Obama and candidates like him are like that Double Quarter Pounder from McDonalds. Standing in line when you are hungry you look up at that big menu and think, "Man that burger looks really good and for a good price." You pay for the meal, sit down and get ready to eat. When you inspect your food you realize something has gone horribly wrong. Somewhere from the picture on the menu to your plate you got mediocre food that looks nothing like the how the picture portrayed it, that has no real nutritional value, is the lowest common denominator and that you realize you probably over paid for the product. You eat it anyways because you made the choice and already paid for the product. You feel like **** for the rest of the night because it sits in your stomach like a lead weight, did not fill you up and you have buyer’s remorse.

That is what voting for Obama would do for me.

I am so glad I don't eat at fast food.

And I agree with the fact that our society has turned into a "give it to me yesterday" mentality. Obama is just a great marketer; he tells the people what they want to hear and indulges into peoples immediate wants, not their needs - hell, he should be working for any company looking to sell something - everyone would buy it!

[HashiriyaS14]

He's also won the war in Iraq regardless of how much the Dems want us to lose and accuse our troops of being killers and rapists.

I'll chime in on everything else later, but I'm about to go into a meeting.

On this issue though, I'd like to disagree.

He hasn't WON anything, he has decreased the violence. This is absolutely a notable accomplishment, but decreasing the violence by putting extra troops on the ground is pretty simple math. It's a linear relationship.

The war won't be WON until we're out and the Iraqis are running their own country without us. This is why the surge, however successful, really only means anything if it results in increased stability once the surge is OVER, which is anybody's guess.

We *could* stay there forever with a massive troop presence and I bet the situation would likely remain pretty stable, but that isn't any kind of victory. It's only a victory if things remain stable after we are gone.

[Cold_Zero]

I am so glad I don't eat at fast food.

And I agree with the fact that our society has turned into a "give it to me yesterday" mentality. Obama is just a great marketer; he tells the people what they want to hear and indulges into peoples immediate wants, not their needs - hell, he should be working for any company looking to sell something - everyone would buy it!

If Reagan was the 'Great Communicator' then Obama will be the 'Great Marketer’ (or Hype). What he has put forward in his campaign has been nothing but the lost common denominator. Let's offer something to everyone, let's not piss anyone voting block off and attempt to strip the campaign of anything controversial.

[audtatious]

We are never going to stay there with a large presence. We will probably have a base there as it's key. Both Obama and McCain support a base and having some troops there. If IRC, 70% of Iraq is now policed by the Iraqi military/police and we are still standing down. 100% violence reduction will never be achieved while we are ramped up over there but the "war" to stabilize Iraq has been won, we are simply working at turning over what we are doing today to their Gov. We claimed a win in WWII when in fact the Nazi's kept fighting here and there for years (I just saw that on a History Channel program) so simply saying it's not won because there is still some violence goes against precedence

The other stuff can be picked apart at will. I can do the same thing for the Clinton Presidency and others too. Does not mean they were failures. Of course, to those who despise Bush it does not matter what he does or any good he may have accomplished as they will still claim him as a failure. Only time will tell but the same happened with Reagan.

[HashiriyaS14]

we are simply working at turning over what we are doing today to their Gov.

Ok, but the prevailing wisdom is that if the troop levels were drawn down, Iraq would descend into utter chaos at best and full-blown civil war at worst.

I honestly believe this to be the case and I think I'm likely in the majority.

The turnover is the hard part, the violence suppression (while admittedly a terrific achievement) is the easy part.

[audtatious]

Ah yeah.....That thought by the same people who claimed they were in a civil war that didn't happen?

The Iraqi Gov is fully in control of all but a couple of areas and the US is backing/supporting them in those areas. It looks like they are working on ending more terrorists coming over from Syria as there must be less targets in Iraq

If you are correct, then we can let 'Bama pull them all out so violence will erupt and destroy what our troops and the Iraqi people have worked so hard for? We all know the Dems will put the blood on Bush's hands instead of their own bad decision.

[smockers83]

On the 401(k) plans a couple of the Dems are coming up with, to be honest, it won't pass under Obama. Obama's plan for retirement is pretty much the opposite. He wants automatic 401(k)s. A retirement account earning 3% interest is absolutely nothing, all it is going to do is keep up with inflation, no real purchasing power or wealth necessary for retirement income is being built.

[barrigas14]

I had a thought today while making my coffee.

Obama and candidates like him are like that Double Quarter Pounder from McDonalds. Standing in line when you are hungry you look up at that big menu and think, "Man that burger looks really good and for a good price." You pay for the meal, sit down and get ready to eat. When you inspect your food you realize something has gone horribly wrong. Somewhere from the picture on the menu to your plate you got mediocre food that looks nothing like the how the picture portrayed it, that has no real nutritional value, is the lowest common denominator and that you realize you probably over paid for the product. You eat it anyways because you made the choice and already paid for the product. You feel like **** for the rest of the night because it sits in your stomach like a lead weight, did not fill you up and you have buyer’s remorse.

That is what voting for Obama would do for me.

So what is McCain? The gun underneath the table?

If anyone thinks that McCain or Obama are going to be able to do anything in the next 4 or even 8 years is seriously out of touch with what is going on.

Also to say that Bush doesn't have some policies that have been screwed up is naive as well.

Will either candidate give us a clean slate...No. We are going to have to pay for who ever is to fault here. And as of yet, no one has given credible evidence that one side isn't more to blame than the other. There is only two parties in America, it's not like we can blame Nader.

[sanioll]

What failed Bush Presidency?

He inherited a recession from Clinton AND had 9/11 and kept the economy from imploding.

You are joking right? Clinton times were the best times. Misinformation and idiocy forced Georgy to lie to the nation and start a wrong war. And look where we are now. Yes he did keep the economy from imploding. Thaaaaaaat must be the reason why he is one of the worst presidents of all times.

[themadscientist]

They obviously don't care about results, he has none on his record, he has never done anything. So, it seems only logical they will expect nothing from him once elected right? If this yahoo gets elected I don't want to hear any cultist libbies bitching when the country spirals into the crapper. Any person who cared to look at his record could easily deduce he has no real ability other than talking purty. So if you vote for him and he is a screw up then it is YOUR FAULT not his and I will call up every post you put up prior to the election where you acted as if he was sent from heaven to remind you how deluded you were and that you put this guy in power. No sir, Barrack is Barrack, I hold no grudge against him for being who he is. I will hold his jonesean followers 100% responsible for what he does as it was there duty to make a an informed decision. If they are surprised when Obama fails then they didn't look too good at the "the one" because it's plain as day to the rest of us.

[Cold_Zero]

So what is McCain? The gun underneath the table?

If anyone thinks that McCain or Obama are going to be able to do anything in the next 4 or even 8 years is seriously out of touch with what is going on.

Also to say that Bush doesn't have some policies that have been screwed up is naive as well.

Will either candidate give us a clean slate...No. We are going to have to pay for who ever is to fault here. And as of yet, no one has given credible evidence that one side isn't more to blame than the other. There is only two parties in America, it's not like we can blame Nader.

Give me a few days and some coffee and I will come up with an epiphany on McCain.bud

[audtatious]

You are joking right? Clinton times were the best times.

Yeah, Clinton rode the wave of the dot com boom till it burst in 2000. Look it up some time.

[wawazat8402]

I am frustrated by a lot of the people I have met who are supporting Obama. Yes, Im glad people are supporting the same guy I am since it means he has a better chance of being our leader, however it also reminds me how clueless many of our citizens are. I wish he wasnt such a political celebrity and people who voted for him did it because they agreed with the way he saw things and the solutions he proposed.

I will say that many of the threads opened in this forum have encouraged me to research much more than I did in the beginning. I agree less with him on some things. I dont think either of these guys are ideal for what we need now. My main hope for the next President is that they can mend the schism in our society. We used to be the country everyone admired like a family that always manages to come together and solve problems on their own. I believe that nature is still in each and every one of us, especially after the disasters we have endure in the last 7 years. We need a leader that is able to bring us together all the time and not just when thousands of people have lost their lives. I believe Obama is closer to being that man than McCain is. McCain has an amazing history of leadership, but when I see him speak and debate, I just dont see it in him anymore. I truly believe that the economy, the war, and many other issues will be repaired if we can just start realizing we are all on the same team despite our pasts and differences and just start working towards a common goal as a country.

[slyedog240sx]

What failed Bush Presidency?

He inherited a recession from Clinton AND had 9/11 and kept the economy from imploding. Lowered taxes which resulted in more income to the Gov. Tried to work towards privatizing Social Security (blocked by Dems who are now looking into taxing income used for 401k's and creating a mandatory deduction to the SSA at a measly 3% return). Provided money to help states assist disabled working from home. Reduced taxes on dividends and capital gains. Made permanent the $5,000 adoption tax credit. Granted a complete tax exemption for prepaid or college tuition savings plans. Killed the Kyoto Global Warming Treaty. Changed parts of the Forestry Management Act to allow necessary cleanup of the national forests in order to reduce fire danger. Provided matching grants for state programs that help private landowners protect rare species. Disarmed Libya of its chemical, nuclear and biological WMD's. Killed the old US/Soviet Union ABM Treaty that was preventing the U.S. from deploying our ABM defenses. Pushed through three raises for our military. Signed the largest nuclear arms reduction in world history with Russia. Paid back UN dues only in return for reforms and reduction of U.S. share of the costs. Told the UN the to shove their International Ban on Small Arms Trafficking Treaty up their butts. Strengthened the National Health Service Corps to put more physicians in the neediest areas, and make its scholarship funds tax-free. Doubled the research budget of the National Institutes of Health. Initiated Medicare reform. Signed the workplace verification bill to prevent hiring of illegal aliens. Established a six-month deadline for processing immigration applications. Supports class action reform bill which limits lawyer fees so that more settlement money goes to victims. Started the USA Freedom Corps. etc...etc...etc...etc...

He has done a good job on numerous issues which you and others simply want to ignore. He's also won the war in Iraq regardless of how much the Dems want us to lose and accuse our troops of being killers and rapists.

THANK YOU. Finally see someone with enough common sense to realize what bush has walked into when he became president, as well as seeing his good side. No Bush isn't our best president, but has by far done well.All you Obama lovers, Go read a book called the Obamination.You will read of some very strange activites that this man Barack Obama condones in his Birth country of Kenya.Remember when you vote Tues ,what is gonna happen with a MAJORITY democratic house, senate, plus a president.Not very good things is what will happen and i can guarantee the obama tax cuts will be offset fast by democratic spending and obama's poor ideals.This nation was built upon individual wealth not lets all share the wealth.May as well adopt communism cause that is about one step away.

[BusyBadger]

I had a thought today while making my coffee.

Obama and candidates like him are like that Double Quarter Pounder from McDonalds. Standing in line when you are hungry you look up at that big menu and think, "Man that burger looks really good and for a good price." You pay for the meal, sit down and get ready to eat. When you inspect your food you realize something has gone horribly wrong. Somewhere from the picture on the menu to your plate you got mediocre food that looks nothing like the how the picture portrayed it, that has no real nutritional value, is the lowest common denominator and that you realize you probably over paid for the product. You eat it anyways because you made the choice and already paid for the product. You feel like **** for the rest of the night because it sits in your stomach like a lead weight, did not fill you up and you have buyer’s remorse.

That is what voting for Obama would do for me.

You left out the part about seeing it for the crap it really is the next morning.

[WDRacing]

This thread is a perfect example of partisanship at work. Support Obama till the death, support McCain and even Bush because you hate Obama.

Not liking Obama doesn't mean you need to support Bush and or McCain. It's this reason I'm voting 3rd party, cause screw party politics.

Bush may not have run what I would call a "failed" 8 yr term, but it is far from successful. One merely has to look at the current state of the union and the debt from the war. Entirely his fault? Of course not, but when you're the capt of the ship...

Neither of the current fools running for office are going to save the country. The Obama supporters are foolish for thinking so, he's a politician just like the rest of them. But the McCain supporters aren't going to enjoy a great 4 years either if he wins.

Both sides will be able to whip rocks at each other for the next 4-8 years no matter who wins. Cause our Nation is in a state of F'd up.

Point? Support whoever you want, but be just as willing to admit that both sides do equally stupid things and have caused an equal amount of crap. It just depends on the perspective your viewing things from.

Blind follower ship is going to lead this country NOWHERE.

Once we can agree on that, we can actually exchange idea's, and just maybe, come to agreements and work to actually improve something.

[smockers83]

+1 on partisan politics. Partisan politics = and failure

[audtatious]

Wait until you are no longer "Joe Apartment Guy" and you will worry more

I would have been far less partisan about 'bamallamadingdong if Dems on this board could have answered even one question I posed about him.

[WDRacing]

I can always switch back to illegal profiteering

[480sx]

What failed Bush Presidency?

I think someone else said it best.. Your joking right? Inherited recession huh.. So your saying that spending 10b in the middle east a month had nothing to do with it?

What about the 'Grand Collation of the Willing' that was going to storm Iraq and be greeted as liberators? Yea so much for that. We went in pretty much alone without the support of the international community, as was promised to the congress(and the american people) when they gave Bush the authority to go to war.

To many human rights issues to count, in addition to war crimes, treating the Constitution of the United states as his personal toilet paper, and that list that i wrote.. Oh what the heck, you dodged it last time so im going to put it back up for fun, considering you seem to think that Bush's presidency was something other than a colossal mistake.

Abu Graib, GTMO, torture memos, innocent civilians being killed in Iraq daily, terrorlst orgs being stronger and more organized than they ever have before, our soldiers dying in Iraq in what seems to be another Veitnam like conflict, us beginning to lose the war in Afganistan after we had 'victory', our own economy dragging the worlds economy down, oh.. and the majority of the world hates our country, to name a few things.

Oh hell, why not go on. Patriot act, domestic warrantless surveillance, consistent violation of constitutional rights by the executive branch without any punishment, protection for the phone companies who gave the US govt information that we thought was private, Katrina. Id have to dig up my PLS notes from the last year to get the rest of the ones i know about, but i think thats a pretty good list.

Lowered taxes which resulted in more income to the Gov.

Wow, so you really believed that line from the early days of the administration?

He's also won the war in Iraq regardless of how much the Dems want us to lose and accuse our troops of being killers and rapists.

Dude, you have to stop making statements like this. They do not support your case at all(and in addition they are completely flawed, biased, and pointless) and make you look really bad.

But besides that.. We'v won the war in Iraq? I guess Bush in the flight suit did it for you then.

I mean dude.. Are you kidding me? Heres a quote from the Whitehouse web page.

OUR NATIONAL STRATEGY FOR VICTORY IN IRAQ: Helping the Iraqi People Defeat the Terrorists and Build an Inclusive Democratic State

Short term, Iraq is making steady progress in fighting terrorists, meeting political milestones, building democratic institutions, and standing up security forces.

Medium term, Iraq is in the lead defeating terrorists and providing its own security, with a fully constitutional government in place, and on its way to achieving its economic potential.

Longer term, Iraq is peaceful, united, stable, and secure, well integrated into the international community, and a full partner in the global war on terrorism.

Find the WIN in that for me please. We have barely achieved our short term goals in 5 years. You think our long term goals(hell the mid term goals too) for victory as defined by the white house are EVER going to be accomplished? So, by the white houses definition(IMO, but come on people, Iraq and peaceful?), this war is unwinnable.

He hasn't WON anything, he has decreased the violence. This is absolutely a notable accomplishment, but decreasing the violence by putting extra troops on the ground is pretty simple math. It's a linear relationship.

EXACTLY.

While our leaders may set impossible goals for our military, our military kicks some serious A and gets stuff done against all odds.

Whats going to happen when we bail on Iraq though? They want us completely out by 2011(or 12, IIRC).

Ah yeah.....That thought by the same people who claimed they were in a civil war that didn't happen?

What?! Explain to me how the Shia and Sunni 'secritarian violence(ROTF)' is not a civil war. Saddam kept it from being out of control because he ruled with an iron fist. Now that thats gone, the ish hit the fan.

The Iraqi Gov is fully in control of all but a couple of areas and the US is backing/supporting them in those areas.

You seriously believe that? The Iraq govt has the might of the US military holding its hand. There have been many reports of the Iraq govt going in solo and getting slaughtered Vs insurgents. There is no Iraqi gov control until the US leaves the area. Until then, we will be the only thing holding that govt/'anti terror' machine together.

All you Obama lovers, Go read a book called the Obamination.

Sounds like a great unbiased read!

Partisan politics sucks, period. Its tearing this country apart and blurs the real issues that people should be concerned with. Divideds the country over a few 'small' issues instead of the massive ones that we should be concerned with.
Modified by 480sx at 2:23 PM 11/1/2008

[audtatious]

I can always switch back to illegal profiteering

I liked it better when you were running that call girl ring. Was far better with you sending them over here than the illegals to do my yard.

[AZhitman]

I'm eager to hear from those who had unabashed love for Colin Powell...

Supported the war in Iraq, now supports an Obama presidency.

If you think about it, he's not alone.

So, the Left can do one of two things:

1) STFU about the Iraq issue and call it what it is: An unfortunate situation in which hindsight is far better than 20/20

2) Keep railing on the Iraq issue and criticize Col. Powell, Sen. Clinton, and the countless other flip-floppers who now conveniently forget they supported the actions taken in Iraq.

Then, figure out a way to reconcile HOW they can agree with those folks when they so vehemently disagree with them now.

Short memory much?

[audtatious]

Find the WIN in that for me please. We have barely achieved our short term goals in 5 years. You think our long term goals(hell the mid term goals too) for victory as defined by the white house are EVER going to be accomplished? So, by the white houses definition(IMO, but come on people, Iraq and peaceful?), this war is unwinnable.

You are right. The war is unwinnable. All wars are when it comes to the US military due to politics and whiners. Same as the war on poverty. Let's stop them both. Shalondra has 5 kids by 5 different babies daddies so we need to admit it's simply too hard and move on.

What?! Explain to me how the Shia and Sunni 'secritarian violence(ROTF)' is not a civil war. Saddam kept it from being out of control because he ruled with an iron fist. Now that thats gone, the ish hit the fan.

Show me proof that it is a civil war and not terrorists from other countries coming over and blowing people up?

[480sx]

An unfortunate situation in which hindsight is far better than 20/20

Cant see calling our pre war ideas/strategy being anywhere close to 20/20. More like the vision of an elderly woman from the far east.

The American people, along with congress were strait duped into going into this war. Scare tactics were employed by this administration on a global scale.

It gets me really pissed off to tell you the truth. This administration has made a mockery of the law, lied to the US public on a massive scale, falsified documents to support their case for war, and has gotten away with it all. Theres nothing more dangerous to a democracy than a population that lets its leaders get away with murder, and it seems like we are doing just that.

Keep railing on the Iraq issue and criticize Col. Powell, Sen. Clinton, and the countless other flip-floppers who now conveniently forget they supported the actions taken in Iraq.

Then, figure out a way to reconcile HOW they can agree with those folks when they so vehemently disagree with them now.

Short memory much?

While i agree to you, there is more here than a simple flip-flopping. The Bush administration duped the US people as well as congress into believing that Sadam had WMD's and was an immediate threat to the US. In addition to scare tactics, after 9/11 the country felt that it was a necessity to rush to war. In our anger over 9/11 we made some horrible decisions that were now paying for.

Show me proof that it is a civil war and not terrorists from other countries coming over and blowing people up?

Thats a good point really. I can only counter with.. Show me proof that it is the terrorists fabricating the whole thing. VERY plausible however, i am not discounting the idea.