Obama/Romney on Science

[carloslebaron]

Sure, prove that time exists and show the mechanism of how time dilates with the speed of objects. TEN MILLION DOLLARS is the reward. No propaganda is necessary here, I stand that relativity is a fake not a theory, and unless you can collect the reward by proving time as a physical entity, your words are not credible at all.

We can open a thread for this matter, and let this thread with the current topic intact. Still, I do enjoy that no one will ever collect such a reward

We are not going there again. Plenty of scientific proof, and plenty of actual gadgets (like GPS) that rely on that proof. Put it in writing and I will sue you to collect and win in court.

Arguments about time and relativity from you are officially cause for me to edit your posts about them and toss them out.

Lump it.

Z

Edit by Z: Like I mentioned, I am going to delete your further "posts" about time and relativity. You don't get it.

[stebo0728]

Malfunctions are random. Have you any proof that some atomic clocks ignore time dilation while others malfunction? Or do all clocks consistantly show the phenomenon? You could certainly try to argue that maybe something different is happening besides actual dilation, maybe the lack of atmosphere, difference in pressures, difference in gravity, so on and so on could have been the cause of the observed dilation, but you can't explain away the phenomenon by claiming malfunction. Not when the phenomenon is observed consistently with different clocks.

[carloslebaron]

Malfunctions are random. Have you any proof that some atomic clocks ignore time dilation while others malfunction? Or do all clocks consistantly show the phenomenon? You could certainly try to argue that maybe something different is happening besides actual dilation, maybe the lack of atmosphere, difference in pressures, difference in gravity, so on and so on could have been the cause of the observed dilation, but you can't explain away the phenomenon by claiming malfunction. Not when the phenomenon is observed consistently with different clocks.

[Usual BS information edited out again - see above for why. carloslebaron, please stop posting on the topic NOW]

[bigbadberry3]

Go take a modern physics class. Come back when your proof is more substantial than "I think it could be wrong cuz temp. Cuz pressure. Cuz cuz." We can talk when you have more than a belief.

[carloslebaron]

Go take a modern physics class. Come back when your proof is more substantial than "I think it could be wrong cuz temp. Cuz pressure. Cuz cuz." We can talk when you have more than a belief.

bigbadberry3, time dilatation IS a belief.

[AppleBonker]

Go take a modern physics class. Come back when your proof is more substantial than "I think it could be wrong cuz temp. Cuz pressure. Cuz cuz." We can talk when you have more than a belief.

bigbadberry3, time dilatation IS a belief.

So is flying unicorns pooping rainbows. Some beliefs, however, are more valid.

[bigbadberry3]

Go take a modern physics class. Come back when your proof is more substantial than "I think it could be wrong cuz temp. Cuz pressure. Cuz cuz." We can talk when you have more than a belief.

bigbadberry3, time dilatation IS a belief.

No it is a fact, I've studied it many times as I RECEIVED MY PHYSICS degree.

Here's another classic example.

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hb ... /muon.html

Go. Get. Educated.

[C-Kwik]

bigbadberry3, time dilatation IS a belief.

Only in philosophical terms. But well proven in scientific terms. But that probably doesn't make any difference to you seeing as how you don't even understand how atomic clocks work correctly.

[szh]

Go. Get. Educated.

It is pointless wasting your time trying to get him to see reality.

Till he posts his $10 Million bond, so that we can sue and collect, it is not worth the argument.

Z

[carloslebaron]

I deleted your post and it needs to stay deleted.

Do NOT post it again.

Z

______________________________________________________________________________________________________

"As a member of the Swedish Academy of Science which distributes the Nobel Prizes of physics I am on the other hand very glad that this was not done, since the theory of relativity is not physics but philosophy and in my opinion poor philosophy" H. Nordenson

[carloslebaron]

No it is a fact, I've studied it many times as I RECEIVED MY PHYSICS degree.

Here's another classic example.

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hb ... /muon.html

Go. Get. Educated.

Oh yeah, do you think that "links" will give you the reason?

I think that your own explanation will validate your opinion.

Here is a link answering yours.

http://realscience.freeforums.net/index ... l&thread=1

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________

"As a member of the Swedish Academy of Science which distributes the Nobel Prizes of physics I am on the other hand very glad that this was not done, since the theory of relativity is not physics but philosophy and in my opinion poor philosophy" H. Nordenson

[bigbadberry3]

No it is a fact, I've studied it many times as I RECEIVED MY PHYSICS degree.

Here's another classic example.

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hb ... /muon.html

Go. Get. Educated.

Oh yeah, do you think that "links" will give you the reason?

I think that your own explanation will validate your opinion.

Here is a link answering yours.

http://realscience.freeforums.net/index ... l&thread=1

I find it absolutely hysterical that you created a forum just to try and avoid your "semi ban" here.

With the being said, muons simply do not decay because of collisions (they are commonly formed by interactions in the upper atmosphere so I'll give you credit there, but they are not riding the cosmic wave was you allude to). Go read how a muon decays then reexamine your analogy of what appears to be one big plane crash you've created

I also find your post, to be comical! You make an analogy with no scientific fact, just your own reasoning, no mentioning of why the particle is able to sustain a longer life time than a muon not moving at relativistic speeds (a math proof would be nice).

You still owe me and a few others here a million bucks btw. You are now ignored until I see the green.

[szh]

I find it absolutely hysterical that you created a forum just to try and avoid your "semi ban" here.

Amazingly hysterical.

You still owe me and a few others here a million bucks btw. You are now ignored until I see the green.

The day he puts it in writing and proves that he has posted a bond, I will sue and win - including jury trials with expert witnesses - and collect.

Z

[stebo0728]

I applaud Carlos for being sceptical, hell I am fairly sceptical myself of a lot of so called scentific theory floating around out there. But its one thing to say "eh, i just dont get that, I dont see it happening that way", and an entirely different thing to put out fabricated opposition. Questions go alot further than contradictive statements.

[carloslebaron]

[Edited again by Z. Learning to stop posting nonsense yet?].

________________________________________________________________________________________________

"As a member of the Swedish Academy of Science which distributes the Nobel Prizes of physics I am on the other hand very glad that this was not done, since the theory of relativity is not physics but philosophy and in my opinion poor philosophy" H. Nordenson

[carloslebaron]

[Edited again to delete nonsense]

___________________________________________________________________________________________________

"As a member of the Swedish Academy of Science which distributes the Nobel Prizes of physics I am on the other hand very glad that this was not done, since the theory of relativity is not physics but philosophy and in my opinion poor philosophy" H. Nordenson

[szh]

I applaud Carlos for being sceptical, hell I am fairly sceptical myself of a lot of so called scentific theory floating around out there. But its one thing to say "eh, i just dont get that, I dont see it happening that way", and an entirely different thing to put out fabricated opposition. Questions go alot further than contradictive statements.

It is not just a question of being skeptical of theory.

The issue that he is being "skeptical" about is not just some theoretical physics - it is engineering that we use in our daily lives today. As proved by GPS navigation systems in your car or cell-phone.

Ranting nonsense about engineering and daily life reality ... even in a politics forum ... even after having been corrected repeatedly, is tiresome, and a sure way to get my delete finger active.

Much more, and it becomes my ban finger. My tolerance is way higher than some of the Moderators here ... and I am getting quite tired of deleting stuff now.

I don't know how to be any more direct than this: if I have to spend any more effort editing/deleting one more post containing arrant nonsense from carloslebaron, I will also ban. No more wasting "time" ... so to speak!

Z

[stebo0728]

Well now, wait a second. A very accurate calendar was created based upon a theory that earth stood as the center of the universe. The physics and the phenomenon of the sun and star cycles were captured and used in everyday applications, without completely understanding why. The same could be true for anything modern. Just because you've found a pattern in a phenomenon, and used your best reasoning to figure out why it works doesn't mean you ACTUALLY have the right theory. Thats not to say that the patterns and phenomenons you've discovered don't exist, and there's nothing wrong with supporting the theory that is currently most supported by the discoveries and observations you've made heretofore. But its also healthy to have an active skepticism regarding ANY theory. I dont mean to excuse the blather from carlos, I mean to say that, yes, time dilation is still very much theoretical physics, even if documented patterns exist.

What I'm getting at, is it could be at some point, that our current model of time dilation could indeed be revamped based on some new observation. That doesn't trash the real world applications, it just better explains them.

[carloslebaron]

Well now, wait a second. A very accurate calendar was created based upon a theory that earth stood as the center of the universe. The physics and the phenomenon of the sun and star cycles were captured and used in everyday applications, without completely understanding why. The same could be true for anything modern. Just because you've found a pattern in a phenomenon, and used your best reasoning to figure out why it works doesn't mean you ACTUALLY have the right theory. Thats not to say that the patterns and phenomenons you've discovered don't exist, and there's nothing wrong with supporting the theory that is currently most supported by the discoveries and observations you've made heretofore. But its also healthy to have an active skepticism regarding ANY theory. I dont mean to excuse the blather from carlos, I mean to say that, yes, time dilation is still very much theoretical physics, even if documented patterns exist.

What I'm getting at, is it could be at some point, that our current model of time dilation could indeed be revamped based on some new observation. That doesn't trash the real world applications, it just better explains them.

That was Ptolemy, who used a fixed earth with a Sun surrounding it. Actually his calculations fit very well but his base foundation is nonsense...of course, in those years it was as much as science can go...

...oh wait, before Ptolemy, Pythagoras already established that the center of the universe was fire and that the earth was a star surrounding it, you can find about it by reading De Caelo 293a 15- 293b written by Aristotle.

So, what is assumed to be the best argument in science can become to be the poorest scientific thought (simple philosophy), and this happened in the very beginnings of the 20th century. Today, with a more accurate view and analysis, when evaluating such theories, we can obtain that are exactly what Ptolemy was with his fixed in space earth and his orbiting Sun around our planet, just a misunderstanding of reality.

Better is to accept errors than stop science, I mean, real science. We cannot afford using tax payers money to fund the fallacies of several so called theories of science, and apparently neither candidate Romney nor president Obama will do anything to re-evaluate what is real science and what is trash. Sadly to say, but trash is very popular in school and universities curriculum.

___________________________________________________________________________________________________

"As a member of the Swedish Academy of Science which distributes the Nobel Prizes of physics I am on the other hand very glad that this was not done, since the theory of relativity is not physics but philosophy and in my opinion poor philosophy" H. Nordenson

[stebo0728]

Sorry Z....I fed the troll

[szh]

Sorry Z....I fed the troll

No problem ... his SIG just earned him the ban. Sigh ...

Z

[AppleBonker]

Sorry Z....I fed the troll

No problem ... his SIG just earned him the ban. Sigh ...

Z

Lol. I'm sure we can fill in for him if needed:

Relativity isn't real.
I hate gays.

-carlos

In all seriousness though, my thread spun horribly off-topic...

[szh]

In all seriousness though, my thread spun horribly off-topic...

Unfortunately, it did ... sorry about that.

Maybe I should just spin out all the random off-topic stuff into a separate thread ... hmmm.

Z

[AppleBonker]

Meh, no worries. It was at least amusing.

[stebo0728]

Hey, Z, you could have at least just edited his post into Comic Sans font and left it for amusement sake! Sheesh!

[szh]

Hey, Z, you could have at least just edited his post into Comic Sans font and left it for amusement sake! Sheesh!

Sorry about that!

Z

[themadscientist]

I made it a pretty color.

[bigbadberry3]

Well now, wait a second. A very accurate calendar was created based upon a theory that earth stood as the center of the universe. The physics and the phenomenon of the sun and star cycles were captured and used in everyday applications, without completely understanding why. The same could be true for anything modern. Just because you've found a pattern in a phenomenon, and used your best reasoning to figure out why it works doesn't mean you ACTUALLY have the right theory. Thats not to say that the patterns and phenomenons you've discovered don't exist, and there's nothing wrong with supporting the theory that is currently most supported by the discoveries and observations you've made heretofore. But its also healthy to have an active skepticism regarding ANY theory. I dont mean to excuse the blather from carlos, I mean to say that, yes, time dilation is still very much theoretical physics, even if documented patterns exist.

What I'm getting at, is it could be at some point, that our current model of time dilation could indeed be revamped based on some new observation. That doesn't trash the real world applications, it just better explains them.

Very theoretical, not so much but the rest of your point is spot on. You need to inspect facts at a deeper level regardless of who tells you what. However, the difference is then going to prove a contrasting view using facts or just getting up on a soap box and trying to be louder and more boisterous with a fact-less position.

[AppleBonker]

This ^. I question nearly everything I read that has any background in science. It is useful to fact check people, especially when they are reporting things in complex systems (what variables were eliminated and why? how did they normalize for variables that couldn't be controlled?)

It's actually quite lucrative for a scientist to prove a long-accepted theory incorrect. There is a lot of motivation to do so. People much smarter than any of us on NICO (no offense to anyone here) are definitely working to disprove (or at least modify) just about anything you can think of.

[Marenta]

I love science fields, it's the only area of investigation that TRIES to prove itself wrong. How awesome is that?

Could you imagine a lawyer doing that? Hilarious!