Hey folks,
I'm new to the forum and have a slave cylinder issue on my 08 Z. I'll try to make this as short as possible but I'm passed the point of losing my patience and ready to drive my car off a cliff. So I'm really hoping someone can give me some helpful advice on what the problem could be that I'm having. BTW, as far as HP upgrades I've only got Nismo exhaust, Stillen dual cold air intake and a SPEC lightened flywheel.
About 6 wks ago my aftermarket slave cylinder went out. It was an aftermarket slave that I purchased about 2 yrs ago from ZSpeedPerformance along with the Wilwood master cylinder with steel braided lines. They've been on my car now just about 2 yrs and all has been well (except for some clutch engagement noise that's always been there and hasn't changed over time) up until about 6wks ago when my slave went out. The o-rings are failing judging by the pics my Nissan tech emailed to me.
So now I'm scratching my head, because I had this same problem about 2 yrs ago with the factory slave. The factory slave failed about 2wks after I had Oak Ridge Nissan install an aftermarket SPEC Stage 2 Plus clutch & lightened flywheel. I heard numerous times the factory slaves are junk and obviously didn't want this problem again so that's why I went with the Wilwood master/slave cylinder pkg.
As soon as I had the aftermarket SPEC clutch & lightened flywheel installed in my Z (which was approx. 2 yrs ago) I had issues with putting my car into gear, unless I was on a slight incline and which the car could roll then it'd go easily into gear. Otherwise, I had to sometimes turn my car off to put it into gear. I tried adjusting my clutch and it seemed to help but only a fraction AND my factory warranty was about to expire. So after the 2nd time I took my Z back to Oak Ridge Nissan stating I still have issues with it going into gear, my service writer said "hey we'll order you a new transmission, we feel that's where the problem is." Of course I was grateful and expressed my gratitude.
So after the new transmission was installed my car was perfect, went right into gear and clutch pressure was great too so I knew the new slave was working great as well. So for the past almost 2 yrs my car's been great, no issues at all. About 3 months ago I started running my car about once sometimes twice a week over on U.S. Hwy 129 the dragon. Up until then I had mainly just been driving my car pretty much everyday back & forth to work, I occasionally "stretch it's legs" and beat up on it a little but not all the time. I don't pop the clutch and rip through the gears like some others do but I do have fun in it, that's the reason I bought this damn thing.
After about the 5th or 6th time I ran my Z at the dragon I noticed a slight gear oil type of smell in the cabin of my car (this was approx. 10-12 wks ago.) The smell was faint, not all the time. I found somewhere online that it could be a seal on the top of my transmission that's went bad thus causing the faint gear oil smell. I procrastinated a few weeks on making my appointment to get it checked then had to reschedule once and during this time, which was about 2-3wks, I noticed my slave was using a little fluid and also losing just a fraction of pressure. Well on my way to work one morning about 3 days before my appointment to have the gear oil smell checked my slave completely went out, clutch pedal ALL the way to the floor and wouldn't come back up, even with me pulling the clutch back up manually, it'd just fall back down.
So I had my car towed to Oak Ridge Nissan and sure enough they checked it and agreed with me that the slave had failed, again. Now at this point I'm thinking there's probably a reason this aftermarket slave has failed and BEFORE ordering a new slave I want to make damn sure I've got the problem taken care of. BUT that's the problem, NO ONE can seem to give me a definitive answer on what could be causing this issue.
I've heard one reason from Joe at ZSpeed, I've also heard something different from a local tech. I've also spoke with a tech at SPEC and also a couple different techs at Wilwood as well and they all seem to have different opinions. And I'm gettin nothing but a confused puppy look from Oak Ridge Nissan, absolutely no opinions from them. My personal opinion is that I think the slave got overheated from me beatin up on my car here lately over at the dragon. I don't see how it could be anything else but I'm certainly no tech.
To me it just seems awfully coincidental that all has been just fine up until I started running my car over at the dragon as of late. Just a side note, for those of you that haven't drove the dragon, it's just a bunch of switchbacks for about 11 miles. I only get out of 2nd gear a couple different times and that's only for a second or two. I stay almost exclusively in 2nd gear through out the whole way but I'm giving her all she's got, or at least all I think she's got. That's not the place I want to find out my car's limits.
I'm just wondering, has anyone else out there had a similar issue? And if so what'd you do to fix it? I don't want to keep throwing money down the drain since dropping the transmission isn't cheap. If the slave cylinders weren't internal I'd say the hell with it and order a new slave and hope it lasts another 2 yrs. Am I just paranoid about having an issue in the first place? Did I just simply get a bum slave that only lasted 2 yrs? Please someone help, I miss driving my car soo BAD! Any help would be greatly appreciated and really sorry for such a long story.
Newbie, Slave Cylinder Issue (aftermarket)
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Leftysprimo350z
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- Car: Nissan 350z
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BusyBadger
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'05 Nissan 350Z
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Re: Newbie, Slave Cylinder Issue (aftermarket)
I'm sorry it's a problem that brought you here but we're glad you found us! 
My rule of thumb is that whenever you change the slave you change the master, and vice versa. I recently changed both of mine over because the master was failing, the pedal was only coming about halfway up to the top of the normal position after heavy use. That would be my suggestion, change out both.
I used oem Nissan parts with the exception of a firesleeved steel clutch line from DIF and I used DOT 4 instead of DOT 3 fluid for just a but more heat resistance, even though that means I need to change it out more frequently being that DOT 4 is more hygroscopic. Zero problems since I've done that and that includes a weekend running through The Dragon, Moonshiner 28, Cherohala Skyway and The Blue Ridge Parkway. Like you, my drivetrain is not stock, I'm running an Exedy stage 1 clutch and lightweight flywheel.
A group of us from NICO always get together over Labor Day weekend down at The Dragon, usually staying at Fontana Village. Sorry you missed us thus year, you should come join us on 2015!
Here's a link to the writeup I did about the clutch line from DIF.
Welcome to NICO!
My rule of thumb is that whenever you change the slave you change the master, and vice versa. I recently changed both of mine over because the master was failing, the pedal was only coming about halfway up to the top of the normal position after heavy use. That would be my suggestion, change out both.
I used oem Nissan parts with the exception of a firesleeved steel clutch line from DIF and I used DOT 4 instead of DOT 3 fluid for just a but more heat resistance, even though that means I need to change it out more frequently being that DOT 4 is more hygroscopic. Zero problems since I've done that and that includes a weekend running through The Dragon, Moonshiner 28, Cherohala Skyway and The Blue Ridge Parkway. Like you, my drivetrain is not stock, I'm running an Exedy stage 1 clutch and lightweight flywheel.
A group of us from NICO always get together over Labor Day weekend down at The Dragon, usually staying at Fontana Village. Sorry you missed us thus year, you should come join us on 2015!
Here's a link to the writeup I did about the clutch line from DIF.
Welcome to NICO!
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Leftysprimo350z
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2014 1:25 pm
- Car: Nissan 350z
Re: Newbie, Slave Cylinder Issue (aftermarket)
Hey BB,
I really appreciate you taking the time to read through all that plus give the feedback you did. Yea I agree with you about replacing both items if you're gonna replace one. I've used the normal DOT 3 fluid on mine, maybe that was wrong since I drive aggressively at times. I've thought about using DOT 4 and I've read never to use the DOT 5, I really didn't know what advice to take on that subject so I stuck with DOT 3.
The problem is I have no idea how to find out why this slave failed so quickly. I mean 2 yrs is 2 yrs but I just assumed I'd get a lot more life out of it. Am I crazy, or expecting too much out of this product? I'm so lost at this point I really don't know how I'm going to get my car fixed and I refuse to start buying any parts until I know the issue is resolved. I don't want to have to keep dropping the transmission because I guessed wrong on what the issue is. I don't have the money to throw away like that, it'd be nice if I did but I don't unfortunately.
The possibilities I've heard so far is my clutch could have too much travel which is bottoming out the slave. I've also heard there could be an issue with my clutch itself, I don't see any logic in that but I'm no tech. I just know the clutch has never ever slipped, it's just had a slight rubbing/roaring noise for about 1 second when it engages, other than that the clutch has been great.
I've also heard there could be an issue with the throwout bearing. Another possibility I heard was there could be an issue with the master cylinder not meshing with the slave, I don't see the logic there either especially when I purchased them together from the same place (ZSpeedPerformance) that supposedly works on Z's everyday.
I simply don't have any idea on how to proceed with this, how do I figure out what the actual problem is. The Nissan dealership is no help either, not even an opinion from them and this has been going on for almost 7 wks now. At this point I'm not too confident I'll ever get this figured out. I still don't see how in the world this problem isn't obvious, especially to a tech that works on cars every freakin day. And why in the world hasn't anyone else experienced this issue with the aftermarket slave? I know there's a lot of people using them.
BB, thanks again for your 2 cents and if you happen to think of something else I am definitely ALL EARS. BTW, thanks for the invite for next year. I'm sure I would enjoy something like, I went to Zdays this past yr and it was a blast but if I don't figure something out I don't know when I'll be driving this car again. Have a good one BB.
Regards,
Lefty
I really appreciate you taking the time to read through all that plus give the feedback you did. Yea I agree with you about replacing both items if you're gonna replace one. I've used the normal DOT 3 fluid on mine, maybe that was wrong since I drive aggressively at times. I've thought about using DOT 4 and I've read never to use the DOT 5, I really didn't know what advice to take on that subject so I stuck with DOT 3.
The problem is I have no idea how to find out why this slave failed so quickly. I mean 2 yrs is 2 yrs but I just assumed I'd get a lot more life out of it. Am I crazy, or expecting too much out of this product? I'm so lost at this point I really don't know how I'm going to get my car fixed and I refuse to start buying any parts until I know the issue is resolved. I don't want to have to keep dropping the transmission because I guessed wrong on what the issue is. I don't have the money to throw away like that, it'd be nice if I did but I don't unfortunately.
The possibilities I've heard so far is my clutch could have too much travel which is bottoming out the slave. I've also heard there could be an issue with my clutch itself, I don't see any logic in that but I'm no tech. I just know the clutch has never ever slipped, it's just had a slight rubbing/roaring noise for about 1 second when it engages, other than that the clutch has been great.
I've also heard there could be an issue with the throwout bearing. Another possibility I heard was there could be an issue with the master cylinder not meshing with the slave, I don't see the logic there either especially when I purchased them together from the same place (ZSpeedPerformance) that supposedly works on Z's everyday.
I simply don't have any idea on how to proceed with this, how do I figure out what the actual problem is. The Nissan dealership is no help either, not even an opinion from them and this has been going on for almost 7 wks now. At this point I'm not too confident I'll ever get this figured out. I still don't see how in the world this problem isn't obvious, especially to a tech that works on cars every freakin day. And why in the world hasn't anyone else experienced this issue with the aftermarket slave? I know there's a lot of people using them.
BB, thanks again for your 2 cents and if you happen to think of something else I am definitely ALL EARS. BTW, thanks for the invite for next year. I'm sure I would enjoy something like, I went to Zdays this past yr and it was a blast but if I don't figure something out I don't know when I'll be driving this car again. Have a good one BB.
Regards,
Lefty
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BusyBadger
- Posts: 3753
- Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 3:20 pm
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'05 Nissan 350Z
'13 Nissan Juke - Contact:
Re: Newbie, Slave Cylinder Issue (aftermarket)
Found this doing some searching...
Keep blowing slave cylinders
BTW, I've heard that ZSpeed cylinder is bulletproof, which is a good th in considering you have to drop the transmission to get to it. What did the folks over there say they think the issue might be?
Keep blowing slave cylinders
BTW, I've heard that ZSpeed cylinder is bulletproof, which is a good th in considering you have to drop the transmission to get to it. What did the folks over there say they think the issue might be?
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Leftysprimo350z
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2014 1:25 pm
- Car: Nissan 350z
Re: Newbie, Slave Cylinder Issue (aftermarket)
Hey BB,
Thanks for the link. I didn't realize it's so easy to put a TO bearing in backwards, but it makes sense. Joe at ZSpeed said the following:
"I need to see the slave with the trans/clutch installed to see if it is bottomed out or not and caused it to overheat and blow.. Spec are about the only ones we ever have an issue with doing this. The only way for me to know is to take the clutch and flywheel off the car, Bolt the cover down with disk to the flywheel and measure from the back surface of the flywheel where it sits on the crank to the top level of the diaphragm spring where the slave bearings sits on it."
"Should be 3.25" with a new clutch setup and no more than 3.75" worn out. I have attached a picture to show what I mean, This is extended a little over 1/2" from being completely bottomed out with a about 1/2 life left JWT clutch which is setup correctly. If the disk is worn or the clutch is not set-up correctly to start with it will push the slave back all the way overheating it and causing early failure." (end quote)
BB this too makes sense but I seriously don't think my clutch is even close to being wore out. I'm very easy on my clutch, I never ride it like at red lights and such for example. Not only that it's rare for me to "rip" through the gears too since I rarely drag it, and that's only been a handful of times at red lights when some punk revving at me deserved it, hehe.
I'm currently waiting for the Nissan tech to do what Joe asked for so I can email him the pic. I'm trying not to be pushy because they're supposedly cutting me some slack on labor. Man I'm so disgusted since there's so many different issues it could be and feeling like I'll never figure out this problem. Let me thank you again for your help and time BB. I do appreciate it. When I hear something new I'll let you know but I just don't see how this is ever gonna get resolved.
Lefty
Thanks for the link. I didn't realize it's so easy to put a TO bearing in backwards, but it makes sense. Joe at ZSpeed said the following:
"I need to see the slave with the trans/clutch installed to see if it is bottomed out or not and caused it to overheat and blow.. Spec are about the only ones we ever have an issue with doing this. The only way for me to know is to take the clutch and flywheel off the car, Bolt the cover down with disk to the flywheel and measure from the back surface of the flywheel where it sits on the crank to the top level of the diaphragm spring where the slave bearings sits on it."
"Should be 3.25" with a new clutch setup and no more than 3.75" worn out. I have attached a picture to show what I mean, This is extended a little over 1/2" from being completely bottomed out with a about 1/2 life left JWT clutch which is setup correctly. If the disk is worn or the clutch is not set-up correctly to start with it will push the slave back all the way overheating it and causing early failure." (end quote)
BB this too makes sense but I seriously don't think my clutch is even close to being wore out. I'm very easy on my clutch, I never ride it like at red lights and such for example. Not only that it's rare for me to "rip" through the gears too since I rarely drag it, and that's only been a handful of times at red lights when some punk revving at me deserved it, hehe.
I'm currently waiting for the Nissan tech to do what Joe asked for so I can email him the pic. I'm trying not to be pushy because they're supposedly cutting me some slack on labor. Man I'm so disgusted since there's so many different issues it could be and feeling like I'll never figure out this problem. Let me thank you again for your help and time BB. I do appreciate it. When I hear something new I'll let you know but I just don't see how this is ever gonna get resolved.
Lefty
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BusyBadger
- Posts: 3753
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'05 Nissan 350Z
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Re: Newbie, Slave Cylinder Issue (aftermarket)
I don't rip on my car but I do drive it the way the Z was meant to be driven and after a few year and several thousand miles my Exedy clutch is still fine. Can't imagine yours is even close to its end of life.
Since you mentioned Oakridge Nissan, I'll have to look you up sometime next time I'm over the Devil's Triangle way (I'm over in the TriCities).
Since you mentioned Oakridge Nissan, I'll have to look you up sometime next time I'm over the Devil's Triangle way (I'm over in the TriCities).
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Leftysprimo350z
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2014 1:25 pm
- Car: Nissan 350z
Re: Newbie, Slave Cylinder Issue (aftermarket)
Yea I'd bet my life savings my clutch is still in good shape, it ain't much but I'd still bet it. Yea man let me know next time you're in the area. I've never been to Devil's Triangle, mainly over at the Dragon and once to the snake on U.S. 421. A buddy of mine lives in the tri-cities area, something Bluff, I can never remember the name of the city.
He's got an 08 champagne colored Z with deep dish wheels, my old wheels actually. I put anniversary wheels back on my car, tires started getting too expensive and there for a time I thought I might have to sell my Z due to a knee injury. If I ever get this issue figured w/o going broke first I'll post on here and we'll go beat up on our cars hehe. Thanks for your help BB.
Lefty
He's got an 08 champagne colored Z with deep dish wheels, my old wheels actually. I put anniversary wheels back on my car, tires started getting too expensive and there for a time I thought I might have to sell my Z due to a knee injury. If I ever get this issue figured w/o going broke first I'll post on here and we'll go beat up on our cars hehe. Thanks for your help BB.
Lefty
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Leftysprimo350z
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2014 1:25 pm
- Car: Nissan 350z
Re: Newbie, Slave Cylinder Issue (aftermarket)
Hey there BB,
Well for the time being my world is back on it's axis. I took a drive down to just outside of Atlanta to a town called Carrollton where Z1 Motorsports is. I recently found out about them this past week from a friend of mine. I called them up Thursday and explained my situation and they pretty much confirmed what I've been thinking this whole freakin time. That there's nothing wrong with my car other than an internal salve cylinder that can't handle high heat from beating up on it on a regular basis. I was thinking there had to be a relation between my recent 129 trips and this slave failing since it hadn't given me any kind of trouble until after running it several times over there recently.
Their service manager told me about an external slave cylinder kit that they've recently designed and they've got them on both of their race cars and are holding up nicely. So at this point I thought it's time to take a trip down there and give this external slave cylinder kit a try, I figured if there was another issue with my car that they'd see it and bring it to my attention anyway. So I bit the bullet and gave it a shot and I must say so far I'm super impressed with the external kit, I made a slight adjustment on the clutch pedal itself when I got back home but other than that, absolutely no complaints with it or the service those guys gave me.
Granted it's only been on since Saturday and I haven't ran it at 129 yet but as far as around town, I dig it so far. My clutch is a little stiffer, which they said it would be, but only about 10-15% plus my clutch was stiff before anyway so that's no big deal to me. They explained to me that my pressure plate is the main reason my clutch is so stiff and there's other options with softer pressure plates while still having a great clutch that won't slip, so that's next on my agenda.
One of the main things that impressed me while I was down there was they didn't try to up sale me on a bunch nonsense or try to act like everything is wrong with my car to try and make more money, like some service shops do. They also showed me my clutch, which is about halfway wore out, which also surprised me a bit, and they told me they could replace my clutch if I wanted or if not I still have plenty of life left on it. I didn't really need to spend the extra money at the moment on a new clutch unless I really needed it. They also said they can most likely keep my old flywheel and just resurface it which would be a little less expensive.
Also while I was down there I went ahead and had them remap my ECU so she's slightly meaner now plus has better throttle response. I also noticed my gas mileage is reading better as well on the gauge. Another awesome thing I've noticed is that the chatter at low RPM's that my car used to have, after going to an aftermarket clutch and lightened flywheel, has pretty much completely diminished. Why, I'm not exactly sure but I'm definitely not complaining. Even at idle the chatter is almost unrecognizable compared to the way it used to sound, very cool.
So my experience with these guys, and a couple gals as well, has so far been well worth the money. I have no regrets. They also told me a lot about 350's that I didn't know and even invited me to a car show/race track meeting this coming wkend but unfortunately I just can't make it this time but will definitely try in the future. The track session will be at Atlanta Motorsports Park and they showed me videos of it as well, looks like it'd be a lot of fun for sure and hasn't been open too long, lots of elevation change.
This whole process did take them from about 10am till about 5pm. I was expecting an all day deal anyway, but it wasn't so bad, I got to play Gran Turismo 6 and also watched a few episodes of the BBC version Top Gear so that helped pass the time. Unfortunately they didn't have the force feedback wheel for GT6, only a controller, so my times were definitely slower than normal. Anyway I just wanted to give you a shout to let you know about my experience with Z1 Motorsports. I will definitely be giving them another visit when something needs done to my car, or I just want to have something down to it. Give me a holler when you're in the area and we'll go cause some trouble somewhere, my email is [email protected]
Thanks again for your help BB. Have a good one.
Regards,
Derrick
Well for the time being my world is back on it's axis. I took a drive down to just outside of Atlanta to a town called Carrollton where Z1 Motorsports is. I recently found out about them this past week from a friend of mine. I called them up Thursday and explained my situation and they pretty much confirmed what I've been thinking this whole freakin time. That there's nothing wrong with my car other than an internal salve cylinder that can't handle high heat from beating up on it on a regular basis. I was thinking there had to be a relation between my recent 129 trips and this slave failing since it hadn't given me any kind of trouble until after running it several times over there recently.
Their service manager told me about an external slave cylinder kit that they've recently designed and they've got them on both of their race cars and are holding up nicely. So at this point I thought it's time to take a trip down there and give this external slave cylinder kit a try, I figured if there was another issue with my car that they'd see it and bring it to my attention anyway. So I bit the bullet and gave it a shot and I must say so far I'm super impressed with the external kit, I made a slight adjustment on the clutch pedal itself when I got back home but other than that, absolutely no complaints with it or the service those guys gave me.
Granted it's only been on since Saturday and I haven't ran it at 129 yet but as far as around town, I dig it so far. My clutch is a little stiffer, which they said it would be, but only about 10-15% plus my clutch was stiff before anyway so that's no big deal to me. They explained to me that my pressure plate is the main reason my clutch is so stiff and there's other options with softer pressure plates while still having a great clutch that won't slip, so that's next on my agenda.
One of the main things that impressed me while I was down there was they didn't try to up sale me on a bunch nonsense or try to act like everything is wrong with my car to try and make more money, like some service shops do. They also showed me my clutch, which is about halfway wore out, which also surprised me a bit, and they told me they could replace my clutch if I wanted or if not I still have plenty of life left on it. I didn't really need to spend the extra money at the moment on a new clutch unless I really needed it. They also said they can most likely keep my old flywheel and just resurface it which would be a little less expensive.
Also while I was down there I went ahead and had them remap my ECU so she's slightly meaner now plus has better throttle response. I also noticed my gas mileage is reading better as well on the gauge. Another awesome thing I've noticed is that the chatter at low RPM's that my car used to have, after going to an aftermarket clutch and lightened flywheel, has pretty much completely diminished. Why, I'm not exactly sure but I'm definitely not complaining. Even at idle the chatter is almost unrecognizable compared to the way it used to sound, very cool.
So my experience with these guys, and a couple gals as well, has so far been well worth the money. I have no regrets. They also told me a lot about 350's that I didn't know and even invited me to a car show/race track meeting this coming wkend but unfortunately I just can't make it this time but will definitely try in the future. The track session will be at Atlanta Motorsports Park and they showed me videos of it as well, looks like it'd be a lot of fun for sure and hasn't been open too long, lots of elevation change.
This whole process did take them from about 10am till about 5pm. I was expecting an all day deal anyway, but it wasn't so bad, I got to play Gran Turismo 6 and also watched a few episodes of the BBC version Top Gear so that helped pass the time. Unfortunately they didn't have the force feedback wheel for GT6, only a controller, so my times were definitely slower than normal. Anyway I just wanted to give you a shout to let you know about my experience with Z1 Motorsports. I will definitely be giving them another visit when something needs done to my car, or I just want to have something down to it. Give me a holler when you're in the area and we'll go cause some trouble somewhere, my email is [email protected]
Thanks again for your help BB. Have a good one.
Regards,
Derrick