New Z32 Brakes rock!

[ceningolmo]

Well... Wes finished up the brakes on my Q yesterday. ANd, they rule the world.

The process involves the trimming/bending of the heat shields in order to fit the larger calipers. When we were done, there was a slight rubbing noise from the rotors making contact with the heat shield. Wes did a little sledge-hammer-engineering to fix that problem, and sent me on my way.

So, between the drive home yesterday and some time spent on the road today I had the chance to put the brakes through their paces.

Per Wes' recommendation I did a couple 60-0mph full on brake slams today. And, those were fun! Nothing like putting both feet on the pedal and holding on for dear life. I would say my stopping distance has improved significantly... stopping distance from 60mph with old brakes: ~1 country mile, new Z32 brakes: not sure cause I started to see red from all the blood running to front of my brain/eyes.

I also, inadvertently, tested my brakes on the freeway coming home from Wes'. I didn't intend to test them this hard... but, it worked out good and no one died. So, I won't complain. How did they get tested? Here is the short story...

Heading north on US131 back to Grand Rapids with the fuel tank getting a little low. I passed up a couple of gas stations searching for a lower price. But, as I passin the exit for Allegan, I noticed a great price. Unfortunately, I was in the far left hand lane and I had two cars between me and the exit lane on the far right. The fact that the exit lane had already started before I even started to make my move wasn't helping the situation either. Anyway... had the cruise set at 80, stepped on the gas and quickly got up to about 100 in order to get in front of the two cars to my right. Quickly merged across two lanes of traffic to get over to the exit lane. Unfortunately, I entered the exit lane just as it was splitting away from the freeway... and, the poor fella already in the exit was making a leisurely (30mph) and far better planned exit than I was. So, I slammed on the brakes and took the Q from 100 down to about 30 to avoid rear ending the poor guy in front of me. The fun part was that the pavement was just a hair moist and the ABS was engaging as the Q was starting to make the turn for the exit.

Needless to say, I nearly shat myself as the Q made the hard decelaration, while cornering, the ABS chattering the whole time.

But, me, the Q, and everyone else on the highway survived the ordeal without incident. In fact, I don't think the people around me really even noticed... despite the fact that I filled my pants. Good thing I just reloaded on the Q factory air freshener.

So... there you go. I like my new brakes.

Next project!!!

[heywier427]

there has been alot of posts on leather care. you should be able to find the best cleaning remidy if anything leaked funny story!

[elwesso]

Im just glad you finally saw the light... Q brakes are for 240 owners!!

[3rd Q]

Just received my Brembo Z32 rotors and pads. Same ones you guys and Squee are running. Should get the calipers this weekend. Do Z32 brake lines work or should I get the 240sz or Q lines. I want to replace them with the best option while I'm in there. What brand of stainless lines did you get? I'm looking for ones already wrapped in plastic.Thanks,

Paul

[Flagship-Q]

Just wondering, where do you guys get the calipers and rotors from? Are they new or used? Thanks

[ceningolmo]

I didn't replac my lines. Still running stock Q lines. Wes replaced his with stainless steel, but says he wishes he hadn't!

I would stick with stock unless you have a specific reason not too.

[ceningolmo]

Got my calipers off of eBay through a JDM importer. Mine where off a JDM Skyline (R32 chassis?), and got them for around $180 shipped.

I got my rotors from Wes, who had a used set of them lying around. I am sure you could track some down on eBay for pretty cheap.

[Jeff Williams]

I didn't replac my lines. Still running stock Q lines. Wes replaced his with stainless steel, but says he wishes he hadn't!

I would stick with stock unless you have a specific reason not too.

I bought RUSSELL SS lines and ATE SuperBlue DOT4 fluid for Layla, and she stops in about half the distance of Lola with stock brakes. Wehn I finally install my BEAUTIFUL Z32 brakes, slotted/drilled zinc plated rotors, SS lines, speed bleeders and DOT4 fluid, I expect to have much less brake fade, shorter stopping distances, and a MUCH firmer brale pedal. So far, I have $600 invested in the whole upgrade.

As far as the heat shields, use a cut-off wheel or grinder, don't use pliers or a hammer!

[lino]

I bought RUSSELL SS lines and ATE SuperBlue DOT4 fluid for Layla, and she stops in about half the distance of Lola with stock brakes. Wehn I finally install my BEAUTIFUL Z32 brakes, slotted/drilled zinc plated rotors, SS lines, speed bleeders and DOT4 fluid, I expect to have much less brake fade, shorter stopping distances, and a MUCH firmer brale pedal. So far, I have $600 invested in the whole upgrade.

As far as the heat shields, use a cut-off wheel or grinder, don't use pliers or a hammer!

What brand slotted/drilled zinc plated rotors are you getting? And since you seem to be pleased with the RUSSELL SS lines and ATE SuperBlue DOT4 fluid, will you be using the same SS lines?

[elwesso]

I just cut down the banjo bolt on ross's lines and thats the way to go..... Stainless lines are overrated IMO.... Id recommend staying with the stock lines to anyone, IMO unless your stock lines look bad.. Otherwise, idjust get the stock Q SS lines... Youll still need to cut down the banjo a little, but its no big deal...

I would have used our grinder on the rear heatshield (we cut the front ones real nice) but our air tool situation was looking pretty poor

not to mention, both me and ross's feet were wet (dont take this the wrong way)

[3rd Q]

Just wondering, where do you guys get the calipers and rotors from? Are they new or used? Thanks

Pads from Joe $69+, rotors from nopionline.com $67 shipped, calipers from Napa $99 each (all prices are for fronts, not sure if I'm changin the rears yet).

Sold my other Q's stock front calipers for $110 shipped, figure I'll get similar for these, maybe a little more since I have newly turned rotors to go with them.

new z32 stuff = $334 , minus the $100 I get from selling stock Q rotors=$244

to replace stock rotors and pads w/ oem = about $200to replace stock calipers w/ non oem = at least $200

So I figure it's worthwhile to get the Z32 setup.

Paul

[elwesso]

factor in $100 forspacers if you want the 15s forwinter.

[Q45tech]

"I bought RUSSELL SS lines and ATE SuperBlue DOT4 fluid for Layla, and she stops in about half the distance of Lola with stock brakes."

Since an oem braked Q with oem pads and oem rotors and oem tires was speced at 129 feet 60 to zero? A 1995 300zxtt stopped in 128 feet oem test.

Apples to apples longer than stock [single stop] braking distances are 90% tires and 10% pads........if you turn the ABS system Off you will see that stock brakes can lock the tires at 60 mph [if you push hard enough].

Most drivers cannot bring their leg up to power to exert 120 pounds, they are so use to typically exerting 40 pounds for a 0.3G stop at best.

Go to gym and set 120 pounds on leg machine for practice.

With a brand new correct tire the ABS systen should not cycle more than a few times in a panic stop, every cycle greatly extends the stopping distance.As the new correct tire ages [every thousand miles] the distances get longer and longer for every heat cycle.

Study the dry braking distances in Tire Rack test notice the wide variations from best [80 feet to worst 120feet] from 50 mph on BMW test cars

[maxnix]

"I bought RUSSELL SS lines and ATE SuperBlue DOT4 fluid for Layla, and she stops in about half the distance of Lola with stock brakes."

Since an oem braked Q with oem pads and oem rotors and oem tires was speced at 129 feet 60 to zero? A 1995 300zxtt stopped in 128 feet oem test.

Apples to apples longer than stock [single stop] braking distances are 90% tires and 10% pads........if you turn the ABS system Off you will see that stock brakes can lock the tires at 60 mph [if you push hard enough].

Most drivers cannot bring their leg up to power to exert 120 pounds, they are so use to typically exerting 40 pounds for a 0.3G stop at best.

Go to gym and set 120 pounds on leg machine for practice.

With a brand new correct tire the ABS systen should not cycle more than a few times in a panic stop, every cycle greatly extends the stopping distance.As the new correct tire ages [every thousand miles] the distances get longer and longer for every heat cycle.

Study the dry braking distances in Tire Rack test notice the wide variations from best [80 feet to worst 120feet] from 50 mph on BMW test cars

Precisely! The tires are really the determining factor for cornering and braking performance.

But check the posts where most members here ask about a cheap tire for their maintianed or upgraded G50, then wonder why all the sweet performance when new goes haywire at less than 10K when the tire breaks down prematurely. Then some don't know because they never had a strong enough tire with equal or better than OEM minimum load rating in the first place.

[Jeff Williams]

I agree, that tires make 80 to 90% of the difference. BUT when I went to the SS lines and DOT4 fluid, I had to re-learn the car's braking all over again. It was a DRAMATIC improvement.

I bet Layla couldn't stop from 60 to 0 in less than 160' before the change.

To say that SS Lines don't make a difference in repeated braking or brake feel or even in the time between pressing on the pedal and caliper piston movement is not correct, in my opinion.

Stats are just that, stats. I rarely brake from 60 to 0. Usually, it is 135 down to 80, while avoiding some law-abiding citizen on my treck home from work.

I truely believe that Seat of the pants feel (buttometer) is what really matters in an individual's street car's performance. That is what affects the way we drive our cars, and how we can tell a modification was an improvement or not.

I think if the SS lines were cheaper, then INFINTIT would have put them on all their cars at the factory.

When I drive Lola, I keep at least 2 more car length in front of me, than when I am in Layla, because the brakes just dont "feel" as good. I can problably stop just as fast, but pedal feel, pedal travel, and brake responses is just not the same. I believe it is the lines and fluid. The tires are relatively the same.

By the way, I am not ranting or trying to be argumentative, I agree 100% with Q45tech, elwesso, and maxnix.

As far as the SS lines go, I am retrofitting the brakes on Lola with the Z32 calipers, some cheap eBay zinc plated drilled and slotted rotors, DOT4 fluid, speed bleeders, and 240SXx conversion lines. I don't like the banjo connections on the cast surface of the Z32 calipers, even with brass washers. It just seems like a weak point for me.

If I am diving into the hard right-hander down hill at Barbers, I don't want a brake failure to force Lola in the outer guard rail.

[elwesso]

Jeff... when you get in there, you will find that the fittings will want to hit things on the suspension... Your proabbly right too about the lines, i just dont think they make that big of a difference..... Regardless, i will not recommend the 240 conversion lines to other owners.. if they gotta have steel lines, id say get Q45 lines and cut down the bolt..... I dont see why the banjo fittings are a big deal, they use banjo fittings on almost all nissans.....! Squeefoo has been using it that way for about 4 years or so as he told me.

also while im ranting..... I think speed bleeders are stupid.. when i did the brakes on ross's we got all the air out no problem, granted we did have 2 people but still..... my speedbleeders are leaking a little, proabbly because i overtightened them or something...... I still dont like em.. I didnt even close the bleeder in between pumps, just had my one man bleeder kit..... and we filled up the little bottle once per caliper and there was basically no air left... brakes felt great! I think his may have been a little better than mine.

we should all know, if considering brake upgrades, that the tires are the deciding factor... I want to assume tires are the same and just look at the brakes......

[ceningolmo]

Gave the brakes another good test today... just for fun. Still rock solid! Man, I love the way these feel.

Also, went back around and checked the lugs for the 2nd time since being home. All lugs are still rock solid, so I think I will leave them alone for a while. Probably check them again in a few weeks.

Also... I lost just a tiny, tiny, tiny little bit of brake fluid. I added a couple of thimbles full of brake fluid, and left it be.

[elwesso]

can you tell where its coming from, ross???? I actually thought to myself that i didnt tighten the passenger side bleeder enough when i woke up on wednesday morning......

[ceningolmo]

I haven't seen any fluid on the garage floor... just noticed a minute amount missing when I was checking fluids.

I still need to get in on that passenger side and do a little more sledge-hammer-engineering to get rid of the tiny rubbing noise. I will check the bleeder while I am in there.

[elwesso]

Look on the insides of the wheels and see if you can see fluid marks on the inside of the wheel... Look on the underside......

However its possible that some more air worked their way to the top so thats possible too..... i woudlnt worry about it, as you remember mine was down to about half in the months ivehad it.

[squeefoo]

Squeefoo has been using it that way for about 4 years or so as he told me.

Since March of 2002, and have gotten the ABS to kick in on dry pavement with nice new Yoko's.

also while im ranting..... I think speed bleeders are stupid.. I think speed bleeders are stupid..

Me too !! A MightyVac with the bottle is so easy -it's pitiful...

[Jeff Williams]

I am glad the banjos work on the cast surface. My Q calipers have a machined surface for the banjos. The Z32 calipers have a very rough uneven surface that the banjo would have to seal against.

I spent the day sanding off the clear coat on my Konig Divas. The color had turned yellow, and now they look great. I need some finer sandpaper, so I can get the finish to a high shine. Right now, they look machined. I will post a new thread, with pictures of my work. It is amazing how much better it looks.

[maxnix]

To say that SS Lines don't make a difference in repeated braking or brake feel or even in the time between pressing on the pedal and caliper piston movement is not correct, in my opinion.

Not as much as greater rotor mass and greater swept area, all other things being equal, which they never are.

[Jeff Williams]

Not as much as greater rotor mass and greater swept area, all other things being equal, which they never are.

AGREED.

SS lines $100Larger rotors, pads, and calipers $600 to $1000 (depending on new or used).

I am getting the 2006 ZO6 calipers, pads, rotors, and wheels for my C5. These are 6 piston monsters, with rotors that require a minimum 18" wheel. Oh yeah, SS lines too .

[Jesda]

So the gist of this thread is:Don't upgrade your brakes. Go to the gym instead.

Noted.

Losing weight would improve braking and acceleration anyway.

[Q45denver]

So are the R32 and Z32 calipers basically the same? Is it better to get the aluminum ones (less unsprung weight?). Is there much benefit to replacing the rear calipers as well? I wonder if they'll fit the 16" OEM twenty hole or the 15" OEM BBS wheels?

[elwesso]

I doubt theyll clear the 16s without spacers, 15s are a definite not...

The R32 calipers are the same, execpt for the GTR... The aluminum ones are nice, they are lighter than the iron ones, not sure if there are any downsides or not...

The rear calipers clear with no spacers on 15s. Id almsot recommend doing the rears first before the fronts...

[Q45denver]

Wes, How is brake modulation with the upgraded brakes? This is my main complaint with the brakes on my 1990. It is difficult to come to a smooth stop. I assume they work OK with the ABS.

[elwesso]

works perfect with ABS.....

Brake modulation is great, theyre not as initially touchy but its very linear.. If you barely tap it, it barely stops... if you ram em home, well then all the stuff in the back seat is now in the front...

[dsagers]

Jeff... when you get in there, you will find that the fittings will want to hit things on the suspension... Your proabbly right too about the lines, i just dont think they make that big of a difference..... Regardless, i will not recommend the 240 conversion lines to other owners.. if they gotta have steel lines, id say get Q45 lines and cut down the bolt..... I dont see why the banjo fittings are a big deal, they use banjo fittings on almost all nissans.....! Squeefoo has been using it that way for about 4 years or so as he told me.

Wes, do you have any pics of modified banjo fittings?