New Q45 rotors Needed OEM , Slot, CrossDrilled, Slot & CrossDrilled ??

[PoorManQ45]

Do you not drive on freeways?

Um.... you are not supposed to use your brakes on the freeway very often. I might use them once every 2~5 miles, but that is it. Also, if you follow your Driving rules, you should know that you should be 1 car lenght away for every 10MPH, or you use the 2 second rule. At 70MPH, you should be about 80ft away from the car in front of you. If the car ahead of you slams on their brakes. It should take you about 1/2~1 second to do the same. They would come to a complete stop in about 120~160 feet. Add 80ft to that because you were 80ft behind him/her. This means that you have almost 200ft to stop (factoring in the reaction time). Unless you have your head up your butt and are not paying attention, you will stop before hitting them. Or, you could just go around the person .

Now, if you are not following the Driving rules, like most people do , and you were "tail-gating" the person ahead of you, you are just asking for an accident. I give no simpathy to those people who are in an accident that they caused because they were following someone too close.

One must decelerate when slowing.

BTW, there is no such thing as "deceleration", there is only acceleration. Acceleration = a change in speed and/or direction.

[PoorManQ45]

I tested the Q last summer on sticky 255/50ZR16's and averaged 131 ft 60-0. First 3 or 4 stops were pretty consistent, after that the fade was noticeable and resulted in warped front rotors (OEM, resurfaced once). Also changed the pads and fluid afterwards, as I felt both had been compromised.

What!!! The rotors warped?

Not bad for a 10-year old car.

Agreed

[maxnix]

BTW, there is no such thing as "deceleration", there is only acceleration. Acceleration = a change in speed and/or direction.

Wow, won't Merriam Webster be surprised their dictionaries have been wrong for over two hundred years!

Main Entry: de·cel·er·ate Pronunciation: (")dE-'se-l&-"rAtFunction: verbInflected Form(s): -at·ed; -at·ingEtymology: de- + acceleratetransitive senses1 : to reduce the speed of : slow down2 : to decrease the rate of progress ofintransitive senses : to move at decreasing speed

Un-frickin-beleivable.

Please tell us you are really stuck in third grade for the fourth year.

[AlabamaDan]

AZHitman,

Good point about it being only pennies a day and I think that having good brakes is probably one of THE most important thing a car can have.

[GreenQ45a]

Most brake problems are from stuck caliper pins, improper insulative shim, caliper seals and not changing out brake fluid immediately after it boils once! Always supply your own brand new bottle/bottles of brake fluid....dealerships may use cheap generic and leave the bottle open till used up...........all it takes is a single day to ruin the remainder.

Is there a rebuild kit for the stock Sumo calipers?

By the way thank you for all your input and MATH."You just can't fu*k with Q45Tech's MATH." -JMS GreenQ45a-------------------

AZ

Should I just go stock for the E-Brake pads.Is there anything else out there for them?It looks like my girl or I drove awhile with the Auto-E-Brake on.

[AlabamaDan]

Took the "good" rear rotor off and carried to it the shop to measure it. (I was very surprised to learn how expensive those tools to measure this stuff is!)Checked the front pads and rotors last night and they look great!

The driver's side rear rotor was 0.348 inches. Since the new rotors are 0.350 inches I think I'm just going to go with buying the one passenger side rotor. The difference is only 0.002. Do y'all think my logic is sound?

Please let me hear your opinions.

[AZhitman]

I'd recommend both rotors, just for the sake of consistency.

Don't know much about the e-brake pad, never used my e-brake.

[AZhitman]

Um.... you are not supposed to use your brakes on the freeway very often. I might use them once every 2~5 miles, but that is it. Also, if you follow your Driving rules, you should know that you should be 1 car lenght away for every 10MPH, or you use the 2 second rule. At 70MPH, you should be about 80ft away from the car in front of you. If the car ahead of you slams on their brakes. It should take you about 1/2~1 second to do the same. They would come to a complete stop in about 120~160 feet. Add 80ft to that because you were 80ft behind him/her. This means that you have almost 200ft to stop (factoring in the reaction time). Unless you have your head up your butt and are not paying attention, you will stop before hitting them. Or, you could just go around the person .

Now, if you are not following the Driving rules, like most people do , and you were "tail-gating" the person ahead of you, you are just asking for an accident. I give no simpathy to those people who are in an accident that they caused because they were following someone too close. BTW, there is no such thing as "deceleration", there is only acceleration. Acceleration = a change in speed and/or direction.

Let's not waste the "Sears School of Driving" blather on those of us who have been driving for decades. Great info for those of you who have less than 3 years behind the wheel, and don't drive in one of the top 5 metropolitan areas of the US.

* In case you're wondering what qualifies me to be so terribly insensitive, recall my 18 accident-free years behind the wheel in the city that is home to FOUR of the FIVE deadliest intersections in America, participant in the State's police pursuit driving courses, and three-time Bondurant attendee. Most others here have even more experience than I.

For someone who knows so much about everything else, anything involving simple physics might not be a wise vocation.

Just in case it's required for graduation, know this: At 70mph, a vehicle (or a baseball, or a bird, or a well-flicked booger) travels 103 feet, 206 feet in 2 seconds. Not 80. And a car length per 10 mph, using a Q45 as an example, would be 117 feet, not 80 feet. Using your math, you just rear-ended someone, even with a .5 second reaction time. Better hope they're just braking for no good reason, i.e. they don't hit something solid and stop instantaneously FAR shorter than 150 feet.

At 75mph, REACTION DISTANCE ALONE (officially recognized DMV figures found at http://www.skytran.net/09Safety/03sfty.htm) is 275 feet, with a deceleration distance of 376 feet, for a total of 650 feet. You just killed someone.

Lastly, if you've ever been to a dragstrip, you'd know that .5 reaction times are rare, even for young drivers with great reflexes, who are ACTIVELY ANTICIPATING a stimulus (green light).

Might want to go look up "deceleration" just to make sure Brian's not pulling the wool over your eyes. Young people sure are gullible.

[/school]

[Rex]

... If the car ahead of you slams on their brakes. It should take you about 1/2~1 second to do the same. They would come to a complete stop in about 120~160 feet. Add 80ft to that because you were 80ft behind him/her. This means that you have almost 200ft to stop (factoring in the reaction time)...

Aren't you double dipping on the trailing distance/reaction time? If you're trailing the car by 80ft and they slam on the brakes, they've started stopping, while you're re-acting to their stopping and thus you continue to move. So, you travel some (maybe all) of that trailing distance before you slam on your brakes, thus you'vee "closed the gap" before your car begins to stop.

Maybe, I'm wrong??

[PoorManQ45]

Again, in Physics, there is no such thing as "deceleration. There is only acceleration.http://www.glenbrook.k12.il.us....html

"Acceleration is a vector quantity which is defined as "the rate at which an object changes its velocity." An object is accelerating if it is changing its velocity."

Let's not waste the "Sears School of Driving" blather on those of us who have been driving for decades. Great info for those of you who have less than 3 years behind the wheel, and don't drive in one of the top 5 metropolitan areas of the US.

What are the 5 top Metropolitan areas?

I have driven in Atlanta, Chicago, and Milwaukee during rush hour.

Are either of those three on the list?

Aren't you double dipping on the trailing distance/reaction time? If you're trailing the car by 80ft and they slam on the brakes, they've started stopping, while you're re-acting to their stopping and thus you continue to move. So, you travel some (maybe all) of that trailing distance before you slam on your brakes, thus you'vee "closed the gap" before your car begins to stop.

IF you manage to close the gap before ever even touching the brakes, you do not deserve to have a licence .

Also, in any car, even a car with the best brakes in the world, you will not be able to avoid a collision if it takes, oh, lets say 3~5 seconds at 70mph to react. Like Greg stated, your covers 103 feet per second. There would be no way to avoid a collision.

At 75mph, REACTION DISTANCE ALONE (officially recognized DMV figures found at http://www.skytran.net/09Safety/03sfty.htm) is 275 feet, with a deceleration distance of 376 feet, for a total of 650 feet. You just killed someone.

That is why you should never "tailgate" anyone. If you do so, no matter how good your brakes and/or reaction time is, you will not be able to avoid a collision.

[AZhitman]

You've succeeded in missing the points (yet again).

Anyway, back to the brake discussion....

[PoorManQ45]

Ok, back to the brake subject.

I think this is a related question, it's about the ABS system.

If you were to somehow manage to get 15in Wide drag radials on the Q45, would the ABS system be able to compensate for this change? Meaning, would the ABS kick in later, because it would require alot more braking force to lock-up 15in wide drag radials?

Or, would the ABS start working under the same brake force that it would were OEM sized tires installed?

[AZhitman]

Trick question.

The footprint wouldn't change (significantly). While it'd be wider, it'd also be "shorter" (front of contact patch to rear of contact patch). So the total interface would be quite similar.

The coefficient of friction of a stickier tire (drag radial perhaps) would likely cause a decreased and delayed application of ABS, though - since ABS kicks in when vehicle speed and tire rotation speed don't jive. Dennis can probably expound on this...

[Rex]

Based on some previous posts by Q45Tech (maybe in Inf Online Mech) the ABS system is calibrated for the origianl OEM Mich pilot compound and most "street" tires are going to be lesser and thus the ABS won't perform at it's optimum. My guess would be if the adhesive charateristics are different enough you could run into the same issue of mismatched tire to ABS.

[Falkdesigns]

As far as Slotted, Drilled, or Drilled/Slotted rotors go I can say this. According to Brembo's literature, their Drilled or Drilled/Slotted rotors are suitable for spirited driving, but not not recomended for track use. Thier Slotted only and Solid rotors are suitable for spirited driving AND are also suitable for track use.

In my Civic Si, which I auto-x'ed and ran up and down the canyon's of Southern California, I had Brembo slotted rotors (the slots are designed to tilt forward), AEM high performance pads made by Nissin (the OE brand on Honda's) and a complete flush with Motul RBF600 (600 degree boiling temp). That was one hell of a brake set-up. That car would stop like, NOW. The only drawback, was the lack of ABS. When you were on it, it was no problem to control, but in a panic or emergency stop, the brakes would simply lock.

Now I know that few of us will ever put our Q's on a race track, but knowing that you have brakes which are suitable for track use tells me you've got the best brakes available. Slotted rotors will eat up pads quicker because the purpose of the slot's is to constantly scrape the pad surface so you always have a fresh, unglazed pad surface. But brake pads, even the most high performance pads, are cheap (under 100$), and easy to change. Most auto race teams use slotted rotors (except of course F1 which run carbon disc / carbon pads).

Basically, rotors will make a difference in your braking power, but good pads and a completely flushed brake system with high quality fluid (I agree 100% with Q45tech on bringing your own new bottles) will make a bigger difference, while the combination of all three will make the biggest.

[GreenQ45a]

So I guess that my biggest issue with the my Q45a's brakes is glazing I should go for slotted @ least.

As far as pad go I can deal with replacement cost.I just wonder how much faster a pad will ware down if it's drilled also?

[texasoil]

The ABS system looks only at relative wheel speeds andrate of change of wheel speed to do its thing. When it detects a wheel rapidly slowing relative to the others,it releases the brake pressure a bit. The trick is 'how big is that bit', and how quick does the ABS computer recognize rapid slowing (skidding), and how quick does the ABS computer restore the brake pressure. IF hte tires are matched front to rear, the tires will not effect the accurracy of the ABS computer calculations. The actual vehicle stopping distance is STRONGLY influenced by the tire tread dynamic coefficient of friction unde incipient to slight skidding conditions. The brake pad/rotor friction interface has the job of getting and keeping the tire at the incipient skidding torque. IF thebrake pad compound is harder that that f r which the ABS was calibrated, one has to use higher pedal force (higher brake fluid pressure) to achieve the same braking torque. In this case, the ABS computer will do its calculation and release fluid pressure by opening a valve for the time that was determined optimal for the OEM brake pads. A harder pad/higher fluid pressure wil lresult in a bigger drop in fluid pressure with ABS activation pulse. ThisMAY result in the skidding wheel regaining full speed and rotating under braked for a small period of time on each ABS pressure release/restore cycle. In a similar way, changing the flexible hoses to a less resiliant one (Goodridge for instance) will result in more abrupt pressure decay (and restoration) at the caliper. It is difficult to say what impact this might have on vehicle stopping distance. It WILL change the brake pad apply pressure cycle as the ABS works, but its impact on stopping effectiveness, as measured by keeping the wheel just starting to skid--which is the best possible state for shortest stopping distance is uncertain. The the relative balance of pad friction/tire friction characteristics may work better, or may not. You have become a test driver.

[GreenQ45a]

AZ--------

Total pkg price for 4 Slot\Drilled rotors and SS lines Speed bleeders shims Great pads (Optional price for brake-ware sensors) and a rebuild kit for the calipers (if needed) which brand of rotors are recomended?

Thanx

If you don't want to quote prices online I give you my email address.