New issue. Electrical related (I Think). Diagnosis?

[BLACKonBLACK98]

I was just moving my car from the street to the driveway and had it die on me for the first time. Injectors are weak/dead so it always runs rough. I've never drove it at night so I was taking advantage of the oppurtunity to double check all the lights. Pulled into the driveway and she died.

I tried to restart it but it wouldn't crank. Diagnostic read "weak battery signal". I turned it over again and gave it a little gas. It started and I revved it up a bit until I started to smell gas. When I released the gas it died. I turned the lights off, popped the hood, jiggled around the battery ground wires, and she started right up. Turned on the lights to see if there was some relation but she idled without dying.

I replaced the battery with a new dry cell a couple days ago. I already noticed the car had puny looking grounds (may or may not me oem, see pic) and ordered some stuff to take care of that.



So I'm thinking the grounds really are as bad as they looked and that was the issue. Perhaps an alternator that may need some attention soon. Any other thoughts?

[qship96]

Battery looks kind of small, what brand and model is it?

[BLACKonBLACK98]

its an excide orbital (orb75dt-84, specs).

[maxnix]

So how does the alternator test out under load?

[qship96]

Battery should be ok for your warm climate, but it has a short reserve time{about 50% of stock oem battery} probobly due to its small size

[Q45dude]

I agree with the size of the battery being small. Mine takes up that whole space there. I would check the positive wires of the battery for any shorts. I also think you may wanna have the alternator tested by a local shop (Autozone does it for free)

[BLACKonBLACK98]

So how does the alternator test out under load?

enigne off: 12.4Venigine on (no accesories): 14.1V

[BLACKonBLACK98]

Battery should be ok for your warm climate, but it has a short reserve time{about 50% of stock oem battery} probobly due to its small size

i wasn't crazy about buying this battery. my car was dead and i couldn't remember who had optimas. after d**king around with the girl at ntb forever i was in no mood to go anywhere else. i tried to get the more powerful model but it wasn't in stock.

i think the size has more to do with the type of battery. i've never owned and orbital before but i know optimas are general a lot shorter than standard batteries. this one is near the same hieght so it would make sense that it would be smaller in LxW dimensions.

as far as the reserve capacity, are you sure about that? according to the q45.org specs (and making a couple assumptions as to what they really mean) i believe they are both 80 AH. i would hate to think i spent all that extra money for something that was less powerful than a stock replacment.

[maxnix]

enigne off: 12.4Venigine on (no accesories): 14.1V

How can the alternator generate 12 volts when it is not turning?

[BLACKonBLACK98]

that was across the battery. i just did what i know how to do. i searched for instructions on testing the alternator but couldn't find any.

[Q45dude]

The way you test if the alternator is when the car is running, you loosent the screw of the positive wire and take off the battery, if the car remains in running mode, then the alternator is working because it is generating electricity but if after you take off and the car dies right away, then your alternator is not working.

[BLACKonBLACK98]

i was fairly sure that testing the voltage across the battery did the same thing since it shows that the alt is charging the battery, but i went ahead and did that anyway. car did not die.

at this point i'm chalking it up to the bad ground since i thats what fixed it and the problem has not returned. i will be upgrading the battery to chassis and block to chassis grounds next week.

i will probably swap out the alternator anyway in the near future when i tackle the timing chain guides.

[Q451990]

The way you test if the alternator is when the car is running, you loosent the screw of the positive wire and take off the battery, if the car remains in running mode, then the alternator is working because it is generating electricity but if after you take off and the car dies right away, then your alternator is not working.

I would absolutely discourage anyone from using this method! Maybe OK on a 1975 Gremlin, but not on a car with a ton of electronics. You could introduce a lot of electrical spikes and weirdness into the system doing this. The volt test (running vs. not) is pretty accurate in telling if there's some function there - but a true load test is needed to totally rule out a partially functioning unit.

FYI, the ground appears to be OEM to me...

Heath

[BLACKonBLACK98]

so is there a way to load test the alternator yourself? i can not drive the car yet so taking it for testing is not an option right now.

[qship96]

i wasn't crazy about buying this battery. my car was dead and i couldn't remember who had optimas. after d**king around with the girl at ntb forever i was in no mood to go anywhere else. i tried to get the more powerful model but it wasn't in stock.

i think the size has more to do with the type of battery. i've never owned and orbital before but i know optimas are general a lot shorter than standard batteries. this one is near the same hieght so it would make sense that it would be smaller in LxW dimensions.

as far as the reserve capacity, are you sure about that? according to the q45.org specs (and making a couple assumptions as to what they really mean) i believe they are both 80 AH. i would hate to think i spent all that extra money for something that was less powerful than a stock replacment.

You are confusing amp hours with RC {reserve capacity}...your battery specs show 80 minutes of RC....factory battery is 160 minutes RC and 80 amp hours....guarantee your battery is nowhere near 80 AMP HOURS{neither is the Optima}Search NOV 2007 Conumers Reoports issue of battery tests to see how yours and the Optima fared compared to the 30 or so they put through the test.

[BLACKonBLACK98]

thats what i meant by "assumptions". i recognized the difference but didn't find any comparable specs (only AH for the oem and RC for the orbital). thanks for the clarification.

now after doing some more research i see that reserve capacity is defined as the amount of time a bettery can maintain 25a output in case of alternator failure. is rc really all that important?

i found and read the cs article but did not find it particularly informative,

hopefully this battery will work for now. when i get done with maintanance and to the part i enjoy i may swap it out/back it up with a power cell.

all in all i am more confused about batteries and less impressed with ntb (which i didn't think was possible).

*edit - now that i think about it, is there really any problem with my battery or are we just scrutuinizing it because it is small?

[qship96]

battery will function in your warm climate OK. In 2-3 years when it dies, you can get a bigger stronger one.....why it is best to start researching BEFORE current one dies, so you are never cought in a jam and end up with whatever is on the shelf at the nearest retailer.

[Q45tech]

12.4 volts means the battery is a tiny bit above half charged...............12.8 is 100% charged.

[BLACKonBLACK98]

i'd be suprised if this battery was still in the carby the ende of the year. i'll probably replace it with a large power cell when i buy the 3 for my maxima.

mechanics isn't really my thing even though it does interest me for the simple fact that it relates to cars. much more of a custom guy.

thanksfor the help/advice.

[BLACKonBLACK98]

update:por-15 battery tray0 gauge battery and engine groundcracked positive terminal (probably theissue the whole time, fix soon)

before:



after:

[qship96]

Looks like you are missing the factory plastic drip tray{contains spilled acid and prevents rust on metal tray below it} that sits between battery bottom and metal battery tray......but more importantly, I dont see any battery hold down brace to keep battery from being tossed around when hitting bumps or in an accident {battery will have short life if it is allowed to flop around}

[BLACKonBLACK98]

yeah. when i bought it it had some cheesey aftermarket hold down and i broke the wingnuts. car doesn't go anywhere right now so its a low priority.

[chuy38]

where did you get your cables. Mine look pretty bad and had same issues your having.

[Evanarc]

after i added my jensen mp3 dvd player, my alternator went out on me and my car died in kew gardens, queens after goin out 2 Mediterranean snack bar with my fiancee.(no place to break down), no thanks to maxinix's quote, get a Bosch battery, every since ive had no problems at all and my engine has been solid. b4 that i had a 1994 stock Nissan battery which was ok 4 the time bein, but once u need more amp 4 your aftermarket system(my 6cd changer broke and ate 4 of my good cd's) your maf will start to jiggle and u will wish you took my advice. the 90$ is worth it bc car batteries dont last 4ever and somehow they eat up your alternator( **** you maxnix dont add your 2 cents)

[qship96]

Jensen sucks, Bosch sucks, and batteries dont cause the MAF to "jiggle".... maybe you should study Maxnix`s posts instead of bashing him? Alcohol can cause many problems if not used in moderation.

[maxnix]

Alcohol can cause many problems if not used in moderation.

Moderation and alcohol have too many syllables for comprehension!

[BLACKonBLACK98]

where did you get your cables. Mine look pretty bad and had same issues your having.

i made them using 0awg wire, battery terminals, screw set terminals, techflex, and heatshrink. they were definitely overkill but i will be ugrading the sound system in the future and i need some practice anyway for my maxima install.

chances are that you can achieve what you need by simply inspecting/cleaning/replacing broken terminals/ground points unless you feel the need to upgrade.

[Haitian_King]

Jensen sucks, Bosch sucks, and batteries dont cause the MAF to "jiggle".... maybe you should study Maxnix`s posts instead of bashing him? Alcohol can cause many problems if not used in moderation.

Now are you saying Bosch sucks in general? Or for just some things? (i.e. Spark plugs)

[qship96]

Search the forum, and draw your own conclusions....much information has been posted regarding the different producers of parts labeled"Bosch"- yes,there are actually different companies using the Bosch name, with different quality standards!!!!

Hpoefully I dont need to defend the Jensen brand? Might as well just get some Kraco or sparkomatic speakers to go with the Jensen headunit!!! Big difference between sound, noise,and MUSIC!!!!

[Haitian_King]

Search the forum, and draw your own conclusions....much information has been posted regarding the different producers of parts labeled"Bosch"- yes,there are actually different companies using the Bosch name, with different quality standards!!!!

Hpoefully I dont need to defend the Jensen brand? Might as well just get some Kraco or sparkomatic speakers to go with the Jensen headunit!!! Big difference between sound, noise,and MUSIC!!!!

Apparently this is a touchy subject for you.

I merely inquired about your distaste for Bosch related items because I've spied some (to the best of my knowledge) factory installed items sporting the Bosch moniker.