New Girl to Nico Staggered 19s

Discussion of Infiniti's amazing (and underrated) sport-luxury crossovers, the EX35 and EX37. For 2014, the EX series will be renamed QX50, in line with Ininfiit's new naming conventions.
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New Girl to Nico Staggered 19s

Postby EX-KAT-35 » Sat Jan 29, 2011 2:49 am

I posted in the Welcome section. post5964623.html#p5964623

Here is my interpretation of the EX:

My 2008 EX came fully loaded with the Tech Pack, but 17-inch wheels.
For 2 Christmases I moved carefully and deliberately and here is the result. I knew I was going to get these but my BF surprised me.
The center caps are original Infiniti.

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Re: New Girl to Nico Staggered 19s

Postby txgcoupe » Sat Jan 29, 2011 6:04 am

Are those really staggered sizes?

If so, wondering why you want tires you can't rotate.

Welcome to the site!

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Re: New Girl to Nico Staggered 19s

Postby SFBill » Sat Jan 29, 2011 9:36 am

Really like the wheel design! What brand are they? I'm considering replacing my wheels when I replace my tires in the next year or so; the design you have really complements the vehicle. Also, I assume you had to order new center caps from Infiniti?

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Re: New Girl to Nico Staggered 19s

Postby yvnrg1981 » Sat Jan 29, 2011 10:28 am

Those are the New Z rims..i believe. On the z they're staggered but you can buy just 4 front ones to keep them all the same.

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Re: New Girl to Nico Staggered 19s

Postby EX-KAT-35 » Sun Jan 30, 2011 7:37 pm

txgcoupe wrote:Are those really staggered sizes?

If so, wondering why you want tires you can't rotate.

Welcome to the site!

John
Thanks John for the welcome. :inoutgay:

According to the research I (well mostly my bf did) to maintain the same overall rolling diameter:
19 x 9 front with 245 40 tire
19 x 10 rear with 275 35 tire

Not sure which model tire I have but they are Bridgestone and they can be rotated left to right bcs the rolling tread pattern is non-directional. I guess I will have to live with the lack of front to rear rotation cutting into the available life of the tires but the looks far outweigh the tire costs to me. I just luv them. With the miles I drive I should need a new set of tires every 2 years I am told.

SFBill wrote:Really like the wheel design! What brand are they? I'm considering replacing my wheels when I replace my tires in the next year or so; the design you have really complements the vehicle. Also, I assume you had to order new center caps from Infiniti?

Thank You SFBill for the kind post and compliments... yvnrg1981 is correct they are the Nissan 370z upgrade wheel option.

My bf was so kind and helped me source the OEM Infiniti center caps using the dealer as a reference and ebay as the supplier. The dealer wanted $33 each. The P/N is 403435P215 for the record while my bf still remembers.

yvnrg1981 wrote:Those are the New Z rims..i believe. On the z they're staggered but you can buy just 4 front ones to keep them all the same.
Yes we considered the 19 x 9 tire all the way round - didn't think the rear 19 x 10 would fit.. The front looks good but the rear is awesome and looks plain threatening (choice of words) with the deep offset and wide rolling patch of 275 rubber when viewed from behind.

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Re: New Girl to Nico Staggered 19s

Postby EX-KAT-35 » Sun Jan 30, 2011 8:15 pm

Where I got my Inspiration:

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Re: New Girl to Nico Staggered 19s

Postby audtatious » Sun Jan 30, 2011 8:23 pm

Nice. The wheels work well with the EX. Congrats and welcome to NICO!

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Re: New Girl to Nico Staggered 19s

Postby EXceptional » Mon Jan 31, 2011 10:31 am

Hi Kat... The Wheels look really good.

Since you're handy with posting Pictures... could you post one of the rear Wheel in relation to the lip of the Fender ? Maybe a shot taken from the back of the Car, looking frontwards with a closeup near the top of the Tire?

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Re: New Girl to Nico Staggered 19s

Postby EX-KAT-35 » Mon Jan 31, 2011 11:14 am

EXceptional wrote:Hi Kat... The Wheels look really good.

Since you're handy with posting Pictures... could you post one of the rear Wheel in relation to the lip of the Fender ? Maybe a shot taken from the back of the Car, looking frontwards with a closeup near the top of the Tire?
Funny u ask EXceptional. I took some "back side" shots too this weekend. They didn't turn out as well as they could bcs of rain reflections, cell phone camara pic, and I had the hazards on. I'm not the best at taking photos.

Will post up later.

Brief description: the edge of the wheel sticks out a little from the fender but my BF says that it should not be an issue bcs of the articulation of the suspension on big bumps tilts inwards and the stiffness of the suspension. Have had 3 passengers with no rubbing back there.

Here is a teaser from the install day wish I took more that was a nice photo-taking day.

Image

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Re: New Girl to Nico Staggered 19s

Postby mikemax99 » Mon Jan 31, 2011 6:34 pm

welcome to the site

[quote="EX-KAT-35"]


According to the research I (well mostly my bf did) to maintain the same overall rolling diameter:
19 x 9 front with 245 40 tire
19 x 10 rear with 275 35 tire

I'm not sure you have the right size because i have 245 40 but with a 20in rim. The 2011 with the 19in rims have 245 45

according to a tire size calculator your tires are too small and to my eyes they look too small.
http://www.1010tires.com/TireSizeCalcul ... ion=submit

Mike

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Re: New Girl to Nico Staggered 19s

Postby EX-KAT-35 » Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:05 pm

mikemax99 wrote:welcome to the site
EX-KAT-35 wrote:

According to the research I (well mostly my bf did) to maintain the same overall rolling diameter:
19 x 9 front with 245 40 tire
19 x 10 rear with 275 35 tire
I'm not sure you have the right size because i have 245 40 but with a 20in rim. The 2011 with the 19in rims have 245 45

according to a tire size calculator your tires are too small and to my eyes they look too small.
http://www.1010tires.com/TireSizeCalcul ... ion=submit

Mike
Hi mikemax99. :laugh:

Good catch. Thanks for pointing out the difference. :blush:
Both wheels sets looked like they were the same height side-by-side in the pics we took.
Confronted my bf with the evidence u provided... :naughty:

According to him the difference is about 3.3-3.8 % difference in ride height. We had to draw a line in the budget somewhere. These are off a 370Z obviously. Extra tires now would have meant another $1000.

I like this site I'm getting smarter already. Replacements will be 19-inch 245 45 and 275 40. My bf is going to find it harder to pull the wool over my eyes now. :nono:

Here is the site he used - Front

Image

Rear

Image
Last edited by EX-KAT-35 on Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: New Girl to Nico Staggered 19s

Postby EXceptional » Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:09 pm

What is the Link for that Site of yours, KAT ?

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Re: New Girl to Nico Staggered 19s

Postby EX-KAT-35 » Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:18 pm

Here u go EXceptional

The Size Comparer is on the left

http://www.rimsntires.com/

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Re: New Girl to Nico Staggered 19s

Postby EXceptional » Sun Feb 06, 2011 11:20 am

Thanks for the Link...

Post a picture of it, in the Sun... please, please. :woot:

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Re: New Girl to Nico Staggered 19s

Postby EibachMBZ » Sun Feb 06, 2011 3:33 pm

Hi Kat,

You probably already knew the proper tire size you need for those wheels and the tire off the 370Z is not really suitable for EX.
When I first saw the pictures I did noticed the tire is too thin and the wheel gap seems a little too big. It gives you the illusion that the car is actually lifted rather than lowered in the overall height.
I understand people want new wheels and try to save money here and there. But is this where you draw that line?
I do suggest you sell the tires to some other Z people and get proper tires for you car.

3.3~3.7% seems not much of a different in "height" you mentioned. But it will ruin alot of things. Your speed reading is off by now so your speedometer is off, your MPG is off, and your odometer reading is also off. There are also other things in ECU that is calculated by the speed reading so those will be affected also. The loading for tires are also different, I am not sure if those tires are capable of taking on the weight of the EX or the way the car drives.

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Re: New Girl to Nico Staggered 19s

Postby jmess » Sun Feb 06, 2011 10:08 pm

Any time you make a mod there are some trade offs. Changes in fender gap isn't a good metric for evaluation suspension and tire/wheels changes from a performance standpoint. Tire load ratings should be considered buts since EX comes with speed rated all season car tires, and is really more of a pudgy G35, I think you will find the Z car Bridgestones (050?) are close enough. The the 1.5" difference in outside diameter between the stock and the Z tires (28" stock vs 26.5 Z car tires) is a pretty big difference and will make your speedo read about 6%? higher than actual.

As was pointed out the ECU calibrations aren't going to be fined tuned for this setup but I doubt this setup will cause any big safety problems. With stickier and wider tires the braking performance should be improved. The wider and stickier tires should give you more traction in weather condition that work with HP Summer tires. You would hope the at the limit handling improves with this setup but you would have to measure it on a track with a stopwatch.

With Traction Control there could be a max speed where it disengages; which would arrive sooner with shorter tires. ABS works off wheel sensors that compare the speed difference between of all wheels and prevent lock up; the emergency brake assist looks at speed and how hard/quick you have pressed the brake pedal so you could notice some change but I doubt it. The ESC could seem like more of a nanny taking action possibly a little sooner than normal but since it is primarily governed by steering wheel angle and lateral acceleration nothing wild should happen.

During normal driving, ESC works in the background and continuously monitors steering and vehicle direction. It compares the driver's intended direction (determined through the measured steering wheel angle) to the vehicle's actual direction (determined through measured lateral acceleration, vehicle rotation (yaw), and individual road wheel speeds).

ESC intervenes only when it detects loss of steering control, i.e. when the vehicle is not going where the driver is steering.[23] This may happen, for example, when skidding during emergency evasive swerves, understeer or oversteer during poorly judged turns on slippery roads, or hydroplaning. ESC estimates the direction of the skid, and then applies the brakes to individual wheels asymmetrically in order to create torque about the vehicle's vertical axis, opposing the skid and bringing the vehicle back in line with the driver's commanded direction. Additionally, the system may reduce engine power or operate the transmission to slow the vehicle down.
Most of the heavy lifting is done by axle and Stability and anti-slip would

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Re: New Girl to Nico Staggered 19s

Postby EXceptional » Sun Feb 06, 2011 10:51 pm

Interesting comments... and written with real concern.

I know with my AWD GMC Sierra Truck, I do everything in my power to make sure all 4 Wheels are the same rolling diameter, as to not add any strain on the Transfer-case.

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Re: New Girl to Nico Staggered 19s

Postby SteveTheTech » Mon Feb 07, 2011 4:35 pm

Welcome to the group and you really have a great looking EX. It looks really nice with the Z wheels, but I really hope that is a rwd EX.

If not you really might want to think about removing those pictures.

That will destroy your transfer case, if the traction control does not immediatly recognize the difference you may not experience anything till the clutch pack fails.
Someone in the M forum did this recently too, but his traction control convinced him otherwise.
I have been waiting for years to see if someone would stagger wheels on an Atessa system equipped vehicle. :ohno:

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Re: New Girl to Nico Staggered 19s

Postby EX-KAT-35 » Mon Feb 07, 2011 7:01 pm

SteveTheTech wrote:Welcome to the group and you really have a great looking EX. It looks really nice with the Z wheels, but I really hope that is a rwd EX.

If not you really might want to think about removing those pictures.

That will destroy your transfer case, if the traction control does not immediatly recognize the difference you may not experience anything till the clutch pack fails.
Someone in the M forum did this recently too, but his traction control convinced him otherwise.
I have been waiting for years to see if someone would stagger wheels on an Atessa system equipped vehicle. :ohno:

Thank you everyone for the spicy input. I think this is good for the forum. Things move a lot slower here than on other sites I've been on. Its downright booring on here. :crazy:

My EX35 is a Journey AWD. Why would I want to remove my pics they show the rolling diameter to be virtually the same :rolleyes:

I might be a girl but you can't scare me that easily. :lolling:

From my understanding the AWD system detects slip/loss of traction and like any other AWD system is sensitive to differences in rolling diameter in each wheel/axle.

The same rolling diameter is the key here. I have that box checked. Only the widths are different.

I have about a summer's worth of tire left on here and I'm not scared to put it to use. Like I said 3.3 - 3.8 percent difference is what I have. This can be had with:
1) A low pressure set of tires.
2) Bald tires
3) Different tire brands of tires with slightly different dimensions (all 4 being the same brand of course). For instance Michelins and Firestones might not be the exact same even though the tire wall says so.

If the Nissan/Infiniti engineers are that picky then I will be getting a Q5.

I know a lot of other AWD folks that run staggered sizes. My boyfriend for one has run staggered widths on his quattro for years. Again rolling diameter is key.

The different width will only serve to increase friction with the road surface and hence traction. The ATESSA system should be more than capable of handling this. The system defaults to RWD any ways only loss of traction brings in the front wheels.

Wonder what folks are gonna say if I decide to turbo/supercharge the engine? :ohno:
Last edited by EX-KAT-35 on Mon Feb 07, 2011 7:16 pm, edited 5 times in total.

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Re: New Girl to Nico Staggered 19s

Postby zarar » Mon Feb 07, 2011 7:07 pm

Supercharge/Turbo? I say go for it, I am curious what kind of results you will get on the EX35 with the AWD and what the EX is really capable of if someone were to invest some money into it.

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Re: New Girl to Nico Staggered 19s

Postby EX-KAT-35 » Mon Feb 07, 2011 7:36 pm

Too bad the editing is only good on here for a few minutes but here is a happy AWD camper with 235 front and 255 rear stagger. That car is tracked too. :biggrin:

Image

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Re: New Girl to Nico Staggered 19s

Postby EX-KAT-35 » Mon Feb 07, 2011 7:41 pm

zarar wrote:Supercharge/Turbo? I say go for it, I am curious what kind of results you will get on the EX35 with the AWD and what the EX is really capable of if someone were to invest some money into it.
That's the spirit... there is more to like with more power.

Correct me if I am wrong our AWD system is similar to the Skyline?

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Re: New Girl to Nico Staggered 19s

Postby EibachMBZ » Mon Feb 07, 2011 9:45 pm

Kat, I don't think anyone here is trying to scare you off. We just want you to enjoy your car with safety and reliability in mind.

I came from a WRX crowd and I been stick with one of the world's best AWD system for 6 years and no one dare to put staggered setup on their subies.
The purpose of AWD is to send precise amount of power to each wheel when they needed to. Right now you are having wider tires in back so the traction for your rear wheel are better than the front ones. This is not how the car originally programmed... And this has nothing to do with the diameter, it's the width. And I been here long enough and read enough about what SteveTheTech said. If he said the transfer case will blow, then it will blow.

Seems like you do not really care about that 3% difference and gives possible reason that will create these differences even with the proper setup. Well, you are not suppose to have improper inflated tires and you are not suppose to run with tires that are bold. It is true that different tire company might have different diameter of the tires even with the same sizes but this difference is minimal. Basically, you are making your car to have this 3% different to start with and down the road this 3% will add up and become 6%.

Turbo EX is not far away. I know someone who is currently turbo charging a VQ35HR on a FX. His current tab is $13000 and I am still debating if I want to do it. That means I have to sell my S30 280Z...

Anyways, it's your car so just to whatever that will make you happy.

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Re: New Girl to Nico Staggered 19s

Postby SteveTheTech » Tue Feb 08, 2011 5:39 am

My EX35 is a Journey AWD. Why would I want to remove my pics they show the rolling diameter to be virtually the same :rolleyes:

Virtually is not close enough for the Nissan AWD system.

The Quattro system is not like the Atessa system. The Audi system uses a center mounter gear set to split torque almost 50-50 most of the time. The Nissan system uses a constantly variable system that defaults to an rwd system and engages a slipping clutch to divert some torque to the front wheels.

I might be a girl but you can't scare me that easily. :lolling:

Please do not think I or any of the other guys here would ever make an attempt to scare you because you are a female.
We are trying to educate you because you are making a mistake that could compromise the safety and functionality of your vehicle and you have bad information.

We are here to try to help educate people not talk them out of modifying your car.

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Re: New Girl to Nico Staggered 19s

Postby EibachMBZ » Tue Feb 08, 2011 9:33 am

SteveTheTech wrote: The Quattro system is not like the Atessa system. The Audi system uses a center mounter gear set to split torque almost 50-50 most of the time. The Nissan system uses a constantly variable system that defaults to an rwd system and engages a slipping clutch to divert some torque to the front wheels.
Now she is going to get a Q5 :rolleyes:

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Re: New Girl to Nico Staggered 19s

Postby EX-KAT-35 » Tue Feb 08, 2011 11:58 am

Well I had some good reading on the M35/M45 forum about "solo413" and it seems that he put new tires on the rear only of an AWD car. That should be enough to set off the traction control system for a rolling diameter difference with the front tires.
solo413 wrote:I have 19 aftermarkets 19x8 fronts and 19x9.5 rears brand new tires on the back just got 2 days ago. would actually prefer factory 19's, if ur interested i can send u pics of the rims.
I would have liked to see pics of the front and NEW rear tires mounted on the wheels side-by-side. solo413 had old tires up front and new in the back.

Thank you Steve and MBZ for your basic working descriptions for how the ATTESA system works.
I feel a little less flamed on now. :cool:

My understanding now is any difference in rolling diameter for too long causes the clutch pack to overheat by trying to split power to compensate perceived slippage.

You seem like a knowledgeable bunch and know what we CAN'T do with our cars. So my question to the board is: What are the tolerances of the system? What CAN be done?

I know from proximity with the Audi crowd that the rolling diameter difference axle to axle or individual wheel MUST EXCEED a certain amount (2-4%) for the system to kick in.
What is the tolerance threshold for the system? U can't just say there is no tolerance because that is :whistle:

Both axles of my setup are theoretically "smaller" diameter than "new" stock tires will be - but my opinion is that they are still within spec for used/worn different brand stock tires.

Also there is no difference in total measured static wheel diameter. As shown in my side-by-side pics.

I'll roll with the setup as is. I find it hard to swallow that a system derived from the Skyline is an eggshell waiting to crack. I have no warning lights.Diameters of tires are 1mm different front to back.

If it breaks I'll be sure to let folks know (as I move on to the Q5) ... but it won't.

PS: I know I'm a girl - not supposed to know about this stuff. :inoutgay:

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Re: New Girl to Nico Staggered 19s

Postby EXceptional » Tue Feb 08, 2011 12:45 pm

EX-KAT-35 wrote:PS: I know I'm a girl - not supposed to know about this stuff. :inoutgay:
I think it's great that we have a Girl on here, that can challenge the Boys !

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Re: New Girl to Nico Staggered 19s

Postby SteveTheTech » Tue Feb 08, 2011 4:59 pm

I would hate to see this type of healthy debate turn into a sexist issue. I want all Infiniti drivers to know everything about their car. Congratulations to the ladies who have joined this club, this type of domain is typically known as a boys club, but keep in mind this is the EX forum we are all a bit older and more adult over here....I think.

The only flaming we usually hand out here is more than well deserved, your still fine. In the Infiniti forums there tend to be less bashing, unless there is too much spotty information. Many of the volunteer staff members here have spent years building honest content here. There are several other Infiniti forums that will spend pages screwing around with no actual facts but we strive to be a little different.

I have seen diameter measurements thrown around allot in these few threads but that is really only one measurement, and in the case of staggered wheels it is not the relevant one. The width and offset of the wheel are not being given the consideration they deserve. Altering the track of the vehicle will have an impact on the handling and mannerisms of the vehicle. Think about what would happen when you are accelerating into a corner and the offset is not what the control unit thinks it should be it will operate incorrectly.

The Atessa system was indeed designed for the Skyline, but made a little more everyday user friendly.
The GT-R uses staggered wheels but it is designed to so I am sure the traction control system can easily accommodate the difference.

As far as specifics, the best thing I can find is this segment from the service manual.
Image

It would seem that a difference of >4mm could be enough to set a fault code and cause the light to flash (fluid over temp).

Personally I have been waiting since 2007 to see if someone will finally test the system and its capabilities. As I suspect it will act fine for a while but you will eventually notice a juttering while trying to accelerate through a turn at low speed, by the time you start to feel that though the transfer case is toast. I do really wish you the best with your test, and look forward to following this through.

This forum and other Infiniti forums are littered with threads like this. It is not really anything new. Some of the older Gs were actually picking up on even old coupe tires and those were only 17s with 225 front and 235 rears.

Why not stagger the wheels and use the same size tire?

Hopefully we can flush that strange Audi logic from your head and replace it with variable modern technology.
:cheers:

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Re: New Girl to Nico Staggered 19s

Postby jmess » Tue Feb 08, 2011 11:02 pm

If you don't live in a major snow belt 2WD is your friend.

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Re: New Girl to Nico Staggered 19s

Postby EibachMBZ » Wed Feb 09, 2011 2:34 am

Well said Steve.

I also wanted to add that the weight difference for wider rims will also need to put into consideration. From the tire spec you posted earlier, your rear wheels are about 5lbs heavier than front wheels.

245 and 275 tires have 30mm difference in section width. Based on the service manual, seems like that is far more than the 8mm factory system could accept...


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