yeah, good thing that this car won't be targeted at the general average consumer and will be have a very limited availability a la "STI" .Nissan_luver08 wrote:
Yeah, BUT, what you are missing is, the average consumer does look at that, they just want a raw HP number. They really dont care about weight to power ratio! They just want to be able to say "Hey, my toyota has 15 more HP than your Nissan, or Chevy, or whatever it is you drive that has less HP
Wow, that rendering is 10x better than the first two initially posted. If it looks like that when it hits production, I will give my .mcheddadi wrote:
that new render kinda looks like a Ferrari 599 GTB Fiorano
I'm not sure how these are factually incorrect... stating that the inside of the cobalt feels cheap is an opinion.. and an opinion that many folks (even cobalt owenrs I know) have... its not an indisputable fact.. but I know cheap plastic when I feel it... the A/C is no Bentley on the inside, but its no cobalt eitherIBCoupe wrote: Sorry, but you were wrong on just about every point. I don't care about the history between you and mendi; you were factually incorrect.
you apparently didn't read all of the posts, and are cherry picking what I've said... every mention of this car shows that I think weight matters, and with these types of numbers, its the MAIN thing that matters...IBcoupe wrote:And if you don't think the weight matters, consider this: exactly what kind of performance do you think you'd find on a 2500lb FR that puts out 167hp/140ft-lb? Because, by all accounts, the MX-5's a blast to drive.
so my point is thisrjdmmfl1 wrote:the s2000 weighs in at 2765 - 2864 curb weight... with an engine that redlines at 8,000 RPM, an extra 30 HP and an extra 17ft lbs of torque
this subaru-toyota can produce decent numbers only if they manage to keep the weight down, which they won't! 2600 lbs is unreasonable, acuall;y what modern day car in this category weighs 2600 lbs?...., if the vehicle has any type of real weight, its performance numbers will be garbage...
Lotus Elise comes to mind...rjdmmfl1 wrote: name a modern day sports car (non-convertible) that weighs in at 2600 lbs?
I think Circa mid2000s there was a coupe version of the MX5 and it was only XX lbs heavier than the convertible, not the XXX that you are claiming. Additionally, for the current MY MX5s the optional hard-top is only 80lbs more than the soft-top.rjdmmfl1 wrote: name a modern day sports car (non-convertible) that weighs in at 2600 lbs? I agree that the MX-5 is probably a fun drive, but even with its 2500 lb curb weight its perforance numbers are still just average... but the only reason it can move is because it has no top! put a top on that thing, add another 200-300 lbs and performance will fall dramatically...
What's the source on this? The Vitz is the JDM version of the Echo/Yaris...mcheddadi wrote:...it appears that Toyota is also planning a new compact car, dubbed Vitz, which will be a rival for the Honda Civic! What the Japanese say is very simple: we have a new war between Honda and Toyota! And the good news is that we, a.k.a. the customers, will be the only winners of this battle!"
Didn't know I needed to qualify this statement by sayingmcheddadi wrote:Clio RSMegane RS
Honda S2000 CR too (technically not a convertible, more like an open top car)
lol thought the s2000 cr didn't came with a roof and that it weighted less than 2600lbs. oh well :prjdmmfl1 wrote:Didn't know I needed to qualify this statement by saying
NO MINI CARS, and CARS ACTUALLY SOLD IN THE US... sorry about that... (did you really bring mini cars into this )
also, the Honda S2000 weighs in at 2765 without the top, and over 2800 lbs with the top (which as I stated earlier, we would have to use since the subaru car won't be a convertible or t top...
do you actually read Mendi? or did you just completely miss the part about sports cars weighing 2600 lbs and NOT being convertibles... and since when did 2600 = 2800+ ...
anyway, forget about this car... I will make one promise..... if Toyota releases the FT-HS in 2011.. I will scrap out this A/C in the blink of an eye and grab one of those hybrids for myself!
but that's the thing Mendi.. we NEED more car enthusiasts to be excited about Hybrids...mcheddadi wrote:
lol thought the s2000 cr didn't came with a roof and that it weighted less than 2600lbs. oh well :p
I didn't follow much of the FT-HS story, but I hope they make it better than the IS-F and they give it proper manual transmission if they ever make it.
I'm not all that hot about hybrids, but I'd be willing to give it a chance
main thing is that it doesn't do what its supposed to do as good as the competition as it tries to do too many things. the main problem is the ride and the transmission. it's got an EIGHT SPEED autotransmission thats all over the place and never where you want it to be when you put it in auto or manual mode. its constantly shifting. I don't remember who said this but, he grasped it perfectly. The IS-F does a lot of things brilliantly, but the M3 does them all brilliantly. the ride on the is-f isn't sporty and comfortable like you'd expect a top of the line sportcar lexus to be. its just harsh harsh harsh. its quite rubbish compared to the m3. so overall its just not the M3 or C63 AMG or AUDI RS4 killer it could have been.rjdmmfl1 wrote:
but that's the thing Mendi.. we NEED more car enthusiasts to be excited about Hybrids...
also, what are some of the drawbacks of the IS-F? I';m not familiar with the negatives.. (I know about many of the negatives for the GT-R)
hmm, that's disappointing to hear... Toyota has really been slipping in performance vehicles for the last decade or so... so sad to hear... not that Iwas planning on buying one, or culd even afford one, but its sad to hear!mcheddadi wrote:
main thing is that it doesn't do what its supposed to do as good as the competition as it tries to do too many things. the main problem is the ride and the transmission. it's got an EIGHT SPEED autotransmission thats all over the place and never where you want it to be when you put it in auto or manual mode. its constantly shifting. I don't remember who said this but, he grasped it perfectly. The IS-F does a lot of things brilliantly, but the M3 does them all brilliantly. the ride on the is-f isn't sporty and comfortable like you'd expect a top of the line sportcar lexus to be. its just harsh harsh harsh. its quite rubbish compared to the m3. so overall its just not the M3 or C63 AMG or AUDI RS4 killer it could have been.
plus to add insult to injury, it has fake dual vertical tailpipes lol.
yes but still, the m3 has a 414hp v8 engine that shakes the heavens and a magnetic adaptive suspension that makes it the mutlitaker it is. someone that thinks pimping out a 335i for the same money that would buy an m3 is missing the point. the m3 does sport AND comfort, it has the m3 legacy behind it. the faster tuned 335i is riceboy next to a stock m3. the m3 is more than the sums of its parts IMO.rjdmmfl1 wrote:
hmm, that's disappointing to hear... Toyota has really been slipping in performance vehicles for the last decade or so... so sad to hear... not that Iwas planning on buying one, or culd even afford one, but its sad to hear!
regarding the M3... interesting thing is...I've heard from more than one sourse (one here and anopther herein San Diego) that for tens of thousands less, a 2009 335i with a tune can outperform a 2009 M3...
wait, so you're saying that you'd rather spend money just to be aprt of the "legacy"... hmmm... now you sound like those Mercedez Benz c230 owners that say"hey its a Benz" ...mcheddadi wrote:
yes but still, the m3 has a 414hp v8 engine that shakes the heavens and a magnetic adaptive suspension that makes it the mutlitaker it is. someone that thinks pimping out a 335i for the same money that would buy an m3 is missing the point. the m3 does sport AND comfort, it has the m3 legacy behind it. the faster tuned 335i is riceboy next to a stock m3. the m3 is more than the sums of its parts IMO.
lol, the legacy and the better ride Electronic Damper control and the v8 engine and the bodykit, but seriously If I had to choose an M3 and money wasn't a factor, i'd take the most extreme one. the Brabham Racing M3 BT92rjdmmfl1 wrote:
wait, so you're saying that you'd rather spend money just to be aprt of the "legacy"... hmmm... now you sound like those Mercedez Benz c230 owners that say"hey its a Benz" ...
I said "just about." Bear with me, pal; that wasn't a line-by-line judgment - it was a summary estimation of the implicit and outright claims you made (quality having anything to do with bang-for-buckness, car company's popularity having anything to do with quality of car, Hyundai's popularity, Hyundai's quality, the projected weight). Just about everything you wrote, assumed, and deduced was wrong. I can see where you might come from on some of it, but you were still wrong.rjdmmfl1 wrote:I'm not sure how these are factually incorrect... stating that the inside of the cobalt feels cheap is an opinion.. and an opinion that many folks (even cobalt owenrs I know) have... its not an indisputable fact.. but I know cheap plastic when I feel it... the A/C is no Bentley on the inside, but its no cobalt either
Are you serious? Generally speaking, convertibles weigh more than their coupe counterparts. From the extra mechanisms involved, to the extra framing, structure, and support required to build a safe car that has no roof, it's a lot easier to build a street-legal consumer car lighter with a roof than without. At the very best, with a completely manual soft-top or a removable hard-top and minimal support reinforcements, you're breaking even.rjdmmfl1 wrote:but the only reason it can move is because it has no top!
I'm sorry if I left you with that impression. I'm responding only to the things you say - you made flawed arguments about the Cobalt, you made inaccurate statements about Hyundai, and then you took those inaccurate statements about Hyundai and turned them into flawed arguments about the Genesis Coupe, and you bumped up the weight of the Toyobaru from 2600lb to 3000lb. That's what I responded to; it wasn't personal, and I don't want it to be.rjdmmfl1 wrote:I'm really not sure what you're bent out of shape over...
actually, this is true... performance wise... the, the Genesis coupe was outperformed by the G37, 370Z, and Mustang GT... the company is suspect only in the eyes of most car enthusiasts... perhaps that's debatable, but start a poll thread asking about whetehr the general opinion of Hyundai's is good or bad, and i think I'd win on that opinion...rjdmmfl1 wrote: Hyundai Genesis is from a suspect company that fails in performance next to every car that they put it up against in its class
it might seem that way, but it's only because I talk passionately about cars I like, you won't see me talking about crap cars. not my fault we have such scrumptious car threads on NICO.rjdmmfl1 wrote:.. its an opinion, and again, an opinion many other share... and it was an opinion directed towards Mendi and his willingness to jump on the bandwagon of almost every new car that comes out...
what do you mean no new piece of news... this most recent article is now saying that the car will produce...mcheddadi wrote:Here's yet another render, the anticipation is killing me!!
http://www.7tune.com/086a-targ...-drop/no new piece of news here. it's like what they did for the sti, lower power JDM version and higher displacement one here. it's all because of eco JDM law that gives lower taxes to 2.0L displacement car or less.
come one mendi... you can't tell me that you're not disappointed... I kow I am... if you read through my posts.. my main complaint has been the projected horsepower/torque numbers, and my belief that they will NOT be able to keep the weight down (but I gave Toyota and Subaru their props regarding making good cars because they deserve it.. and if they wanted to, I knew they could make a real performance car (just not with those crappy numbers .... but now we find out that they have dropped the HP even more????mcheddadi wrote:lol
wat this thread was so good u and mendi talking back and forth its def epic than thisrjdmmfl1 wrote:
a mind boggling 160HP!!!!!
