need some help with injector latency ca18de+t 750cc nistune (engine wont start)

[xsrpm.com.au]

Hey every one I’m having a bit of trouble with Nistune ok so i have a q45 afm & 750cc injectors i installed the injectors and afm, has been wired in so I don’t want to go back to the old afm cbf or the old injectors apon removing the old injectors they were looking worse 4 wear and plastic was breaking off the injectors any way I have spark I set the injectors up through Nistune 1st it won’t start I was going to change the afm as well but don’t know the Q45 max hp to do the calculation within Nistune I will up load the .bin file it that helps.

P.S.im using a ca18det engine loom and ecubut a na coil pack loom but that shouldn’t seem to matter as i have sparkRegards Davidmap updatedhttp://www.xsrpm.com.au/nistune/currentmap.bin
Modified by xsrpm.com.au at 1:38 AM 9/18/2009

[mbmbmb23]

Goto Operations>Change Mass Air Meter and select VH45DE. Injector latency for the 750cc need to be set at 1000-1100us.

If you give me your email addy I'll send you the BIN I will be using on my setup (with the same injectors and maf).
Modified by mbmbmb23 at 4:23 PM 9/6/2009

[MeanGreenS13]

1000-1100!? matt from nistune told me directly to use 450 as a value in injector latency, since my injector latency is .45ms as was told to me by Deatschwerks.

[Buddyworm]

I dunno how you did it man but that rom image is completely empty. When you sync an image off the ecu onto your desktop it does this weird thing where it only saves a certain selection of all the different tables. Unless the copy of your image I downloaded is corrupt or something all you've got on your Rom image there is an after-start enrich table.

Go download the Rom pack off nistune.com and select from there the rom image from the ecu number that's the same as yours and do your tuning with that file as a base. (Be sure not to save over the original rom.) Then we'll see if it runs.

1000-1100!? matt from nistune told me directly to use 450 as a value in injector latency, since my injector latency is .45ms as was told to me by Deatschwerks.

Depends at what voltage that latency was rated. Because everyone's is different you pretty much have to tune things like latency on the fly. Otherwise all you can do is get it into an approximate, albeit acceptable range. I'm sure what Matt told you is close enough but not all injectors are the same. My DSM 450's or GTR 444's have radically different latencies from stock.

[MeanGreenS13]

mine was set at 12V as .47ms so matt instructed me to do .45 or 450 for 14v

[xsrpm.com.au]

sweet thanks 4 the replys i wil try that email: [email protected]

[mbmbmb23]

Well.....I think I'll need to ask him again then before I run the .BIN that I have...because I too will be running the DW 750cc's.

"the latency figure is in microseconds ... so that would be 1000-1100us for your injectors. see how that goes

cheersMatt"

-m

[mbmbmb23]

Found this page, check the values for various 750cc injectors at 12v, looks like it varies between manufacturer. Im not sure what the Deatschwerks injector are considered tho, maybe Denso 720's? ...if so my numbers are correct. Anyhow, this link has some useful info, (Eclipse blue and black 450cc, GTR 444, GTiR 440, etc...)

http://injector-rehab.com/kbse/lag.htm

[xsrpm.com.au]

lol thanks i found that page yesterday :P im not 100% but it seams like my fuel pump isnt priming no priming noise b4 cranking thanks for all your help matt sent me a .bin file i will add it later tonight latency seems to be around 550 of the top of my head will double check l8r.Regard David
Modified by xsrpm.com.au at 4:46 AM 9/7/2009

[Buddyworm]

The fuel pump not priming is a dead giveaway for the ECU not liking the rom image.

[xsrpm.com.au]

The fuel pump not priming is a dead giveaway for the ECU not liking the rom image.

ok cool i think the map i got from matt was 4 a auto would that make a differance?

[mbmbmb23]

I don't think it matters. I think all the differences in ECUS are stored elsewhere than on the ROM (although the speed limiter might be different).

I emailed Matt on Nistune and asked him about the latency thing. I think in one of the threads it talks about doubling this number (see this thread, 3rd post http://forum.nistune.com/viewtopic.php?t=431), so I'm unsure if it would be 550 or 1100.

Anyhow, if your .BIN doesnt work let me know and I'll send you a stock upboost .BIN that either you or myself can change for your MAF/injectors.

-m

[xsrpm.com.au]

thanks mbmbmb23 yeah its not working i would love it if you could send me your .bin file my email is [email protected] thanks
Modified by xsrpm.com.au at 4:20 AM 9/7/2009

[mbmbmb23]

mine was set at 12V as .47ms so matt instructed me to do .45 or 450 for 14v

You are correct, I just got a message back from Matt and he said the value used to report doubled but that is fixed, so 450 should be the value to use (assuming all Deatschwerks CA injectors are the same brand/style).

[MeanGreenS13]

I knew i wasn't going out of my mind! hahaha

[xsrpm.com.au]

ok so when ever i try to write to the nistune board im now getting this msg?
Modified by xsrpm.com.au at 8:36 AM 9/9/2009

[mbmbmb23]

I emailed you the base rom that I will be using before the Q45 maf and 750cc injectors were added. Try adding the Q45 maf and you will see some message about nonstandard info length or truncated length. Theres an option to "halve" that value or something. I didnt select this when changing the rom. This may be your issue. Try asking "Matt" on the Nistune forum about this option. I think the Q45 maf has a different number of resolution squares.

[xsrpm.com.au]

ok bit of a update it now starts but coughs and splutters/wont keep idle log filehttp://www.xsrpm.com.au/nistune/xsrpm.csv

[mbmbmb23]

How do I view that file?

[xsrpm.com.au]

you can use nistune under display consult log player or excel im not getting a maf reading

[float_6969]

Has anybody gotten the VH45 MAFS to work on the CA18 w/nistune before? I was told by another tuner that it was too big for the CA18 and that it was really hard to get it to idle properly and start.

[mbmbmb23]

Has anybody gotten the VH45 MAFS to work on the CA18 w/nistune before? I was told by another tuner that it was too big for the CA18 and that it was really hard to get it to idle properly and start.

Honestly I'm starting to have my doubts....because Nistune gives some message when you try and switch a .BIN to VH45 maf, says "VQ map lengths differ, trunctuating". I'm not exactly sure how that will effect the tune, probably means the cells will all need updated/tweaked =/

*edit* Ok, the Z32 maf gives that same message....so.....I'm not sure about that. Have you figured out the "halve values" option when changing MAF's? Does that box need checked?

Correct me if Im wrong, but wont unplugging the MAF be the test here, and if the idle corrects itself then it's the maf?

Modified by mbmbmb23 at 10:09 PM 9/17/2009
Modified by mbmbmb23 at 10:29 PM 9/17/2009

[Buddyworm]

It gives you the truncating message no matter what MAF you use.

Halving the values for the MAF's is for twin intake setups like with GTR's iirc.

I looked at the log file. The ECU is adding massive amounts of timing in spikes that seem to correspond with dips in TP. Something is totally !@#$ed though because your MAF voltage doesn't change at all and yet the ECU is calculating changing TP's. Furthermore your TPS is throwing seemingly random voltages.

You're gonna have to tell us from the beginning as to what's been done with this car man. There's a lot more going wrong than the tune.

[xsrpm.com.au]

mods done big turbo pod q45 maf fmic ebc 750cc injectors external wastegate ca18det loom on a ca18de only reasion tps was going crazy is i had to rev to keep it going as it wont idle im pritty sure the maf is f***ed (it looks fine but only volts im getting 0.097volts) and the water temp is reading 196 all the time (i have i fair idea that i wiped the ecu of maps which in turn zeroed some hex setting this is my current mapphttp://www.xsrpm.com.au/nistune/currentmap.bin

any one know the maf q45 to ca18det loom colors?Modified by xsrpm.com.au at 1:40 AM 9/18/2009
Modified by xsrpm.com.au at 2:16 AM 9/18/2009

[Buddyworm]

That still doesn't explain the erratic load calculations. They're directly contingent on MAF voltages, which remained constant. But unplug the MAF, see if it'll run in limp mode.

Your main fuel map is totally and righteously !@#$ed.

Also, what's with your TP scales and K? Why so low?

[xsrpm.com.au]

its got random issues maf isnt working temp sensor is suck at 196 all the time when engine is off/ignition going to get it dyno tuned.

[xsrpm.com.au]

i found this yesterdayi think im screwed temp sensor is in a different spot all togetheris the any easy fix except putting the det injector plugs and dropping resistor on the na loom and my nis tune doard into the na ecu thanks in advance

ca18de harness setup:

101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108|01 02 03 04 05 06|13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22|33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40|109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116|07 08 09 10 11 12|23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32|41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48|

ca18det harness setup:

101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108|01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 10|0|21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30|41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50|109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116|11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20|_|31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40|51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60|

pinouts: thanx hairball

det/de/color(de loom)/explanation

1 1 black/red ==Coil 1 2 2 black/yellow ==Coil 2 3 8 red/blue ==Coil 3 5 11 blue ==boost/power control solinoid valve 6 10 blue/yellow ==A/C relay I neeeds them extra kw's so take it offf!!!!!7 3 red/white ==Tacho Drive Output To Auto8 ==Variable intake butterfly Control sol. 10 6 black ==Ground 11 9 red/white ==Coil 4 16 4 black/yellow ==ECCS relay (Earth=on)17 ---------------------- Injector Pulse relay (for trip computer. Not on exa)18 104 white ==fuel pump relay Earth = on20 12 black ==ground 23 28 white ==Knock/Detination sensor 26 16 black ==AFM pin B Air Flow Meter27 15 white ==AFM pin A Check these two AFM pins… they could be backward.. But I think they're right28 17 yellow ==Coolant Temp sensor 29 18 white ==O2 sensor 30 20 black ==20 +30 Sensor Earth 32 ---------------------- Check connector: These are for Nissan to hook up their33 ---------------------- Check connector: Diagnostic Comp's…. Who needs them?37 27 green/yellow ==AFM Pin D 38 19 white ==TPS potentimeter TPS (throttle Positioning Switch/Sensor)41 21 green/black ==CAS 180 deg Crank Angle Sensor42 22 green/yellow ==CAS 1 deg inputs43 35 green ==Start Signal 44 36 orange ==Neutral Switch 45 37 black/white ==Ignition On 46 41 blue/yellow ==thermo control for AC 47 ----- ---------------- Check connector 48 38 white/black ==TPS battery output 49 47 blue ==Battery from ECCS relay ignition coil relay50 40 black ==Ground 51 31 breen/black ==CAS 180 deg CAS Back up52 32 green/yellow ==CAS 1 deg CAS Back up53 33 white/blue ==speed sensor 54 34 red ==TPS idle 55 --------------------- Ambient Air Temp Sensor None on Exa56 --------------------- Auto control. Auto? Yeah right!57 44 white/blue ==TPS FULL!!!! the way it should always be!!!!!!!!!58 46 black/red ==Battery unswitched 59 39 blue ==Battery from ECCS relay 60 48 black ==Ground 101 101 white/shield ==Injector 1 103 103 black/shield ==Injector 3 106 113 yellow/red ==AAC Auxillary Air Control Solinoid valve thingy107 107 black ==Injector ground 108 108 black ==Injector ground 109 109 black/red ==Battery to/from ECCS relay 110 110 yellow/shield ==Injector 2 111 102 orange ==Fuel Pressure Reg. 112 112 white/blue ==Injector 4 115 ----------- Heater output for O2 sensor Exa's only have one wire for O2 sensor.116 116 black ==Injector Ground

[mbmbmb23]

I would put the nistune board in the ca18de ecu......unless you plan to resell the nistune setup later on. You then might need the board flashed for the DE (check with Matt at Nistune) and you probably need the DE .adr file....then copy all the values from the DET .bin u are using over to the DE .bin (unless DET roms will load with a DE address file.) Thats what i think.....ask Nistune for a definite answer.

[niscort]

be very careful you understand the info you find.. iirc thoes pinouts you have pasted there were pinched from an exa site? which run a completely different ecu

[boost_boy]

Niscort is right! Sounds like two different ecus to me as well. Not all the information you find is accurate; especially when it comes to the CA series (too many variants).

Dee