NA ka24de tuning

[psi240]

i have a safc and wideband and was wondering if it would make any difference if i hooked up the Safc to the ka and lean it out a little?

my friend with a sentra Spec V used a safc and was able to pick up 8 whp.

Is anything like this possible with the de? anyone tried?

Has anyone tried the eMance N/A tuned ecu selling on ebay? it claims 10whp ?

thanks

[psi240]

Oh i forgot to mention that its a s13 ka24de with stock internals ..current mods are a 3" catback exhaust , intake, ported intake manifold, emissions removed and egr blockedoff, Asp underdrive pulley walboro 255. and i might try248/248 cams

thanks

[ss82480]

I brought mine in a while back and they were able to dyno tune the SAFC for approximately 6whp. This was a NA with intake/exh/header/pulley. If I remember correctly they were increasing the fuel though, not leaning it out for most of the powerband. Hope this helps some.

[boznuttz]

Even if you got about 10 extra to the wheels (being generous), I personally don't think it's worth the amount of money for an SAFC, wideband, and dyno run.

You could probably spend over 400 easily to make a measly 8 or so extra to the wheels.

Just save up your cash, because 1000 could get you around 180 to the wheels pretty easily on a simple FMU boosted setup.

My setup below:600 bucks for piecing together parts from the classifieds170 Ebay FMIC80 JGS oil lines30 1g DSM bov80 8:1 FMUa few random parts here than there.......

I was making 170 - 180 or so at the wheels at 3 psi.....then one of my injectors stuck open, lol.

[psi240]

i did do a ka-t setup .. going back to NA ka .. Need reliability and that is not possible without a built engine + $$$ on tuning.

[psi240]

thanks .. that helps .. How much hp/tq did it put down

[redtop91]

Reliability and NA power are not things that you can use together unless you are talking a V8 or something. Small displacement NA motors have to rev to make power and revs reduce reliability.

[ss82480]

Well that all depends on what you are looking to get out of the car. I don't race(nor plan to), all I wanted was a little bit faster than stock so that it fits my driving habits. If you are one of those people that constantly has to prove you are better than someone, then obviously turbo(or LS1 ) is the only way to go.

As far as reliability goes, I gotta say I've been DD'in my NA KA for over EIGHT years, having been modded all of that and haven't had anything with the motor go bad.

*it also depends alot on how you treat the car, cheaping out on crappy replacement parts or going that extra 1000 miles before and oil change can add up when you are driving on a 100k-200k motor

[redtop91]

You also probably aren't making much more power than stock. I'm talking extreme NA builds, which happen to be impossible on the DOHC and rare on the SOHC.

[boznuttz]

Well, if you happen to already have an SAFC and wideband, then go for it, lol. It'll give you something to try out. It's all up to you and such, but the boost big hit me already, lol.

[Iceman00]

Reliability and NA power are not things that you can use together unless you are talking a V8 or something. Small displacement NA motors have to rev to make power and revs reduce reliability.

You are stupid, and this post does not even deserve a proper response.

[redtop91]

Maybe because you don't have one? High power NA motors are not reliable. Period. How about you come up with an actual response (which I know you don't have)? It's easy to call info wrong and not know what is correct, buck-o.

[Iceman00]

You also probably aren't making much more power than stock. I'm talking extreme NA builds, which happen to be impossible on the DOHC and rare on the SOHC.

How do you breathe? Who allows you to sit at a computer and post? If you are this stupid online, with information readily available at your fingertips, I can only imagine how stupid you are in person.

I gained 20whp in mid range, and over 10whp at peak with a JWT ecu. I only had two mods besides the ecu. Intake, and header. Stock cams, Stock Exhaust, and a Auto trans.

I say pick up a used JWT ecu, and don't bother with the SAFC

[redtop91]

Reading comprehension-2 Random e-thug-0. High power NA motors was the key word there. I wouldn't call 20whp over 155 exactly high HP.

[Iceman00]

Maybe because you don't have one? High power NA motors are not reliable. Period. How about you come up with an actual response (which I know you don't have)? It's easy to call info wrong and not know what is correct, buck-o.

Listen you ****ing dip****, PROVE that honda's K-series motors (rev over 8000rpm) are Not as reliable as a LS series block. You are going to make yourself look even more ignorant than you are.

No matter what car, or motor type, Making massive amounts of power NA can stress out some of the parts. V type engines are more prone to this compared to inline formation.

What you are talking about has ZERO to do with the topic at hand. Will an SAFC gain power on a stock/bolt on car? The answer is a simple Yes.

[redtop91]

Listen you ****ing dip****, PROVE that honda's K-series motors (rev over 8000rpm) are Not as reliable as a LS series block. You are going to make yourself look even more ignorant than you are.

Comparing the K series to any LS block is a massive failure on your part. It really shows how little you know about anything. K series rev much higher to make power than LS blocks which has a direct effect on engine life. I don't care what you say, living at 8000+ will cause more trouble than a big block making that power at under half its redline. My point was not to discredit the original SAFC tuning concept which again proves you have the reading comprehension of a 4th grader. I'll believe you when you show me a 400whp K series, or any production 4 banger for that matter, making LS power and is equally reliable, I will concede your greatness.

[Iceman00]

Comparing the K series to any LS block is a massive failure on your part.

Based on what? Honda Engines have been able to run over the 200K mile mark for over 15 years. GM's LS motors will snap Valve springs, Pushrods, and piston slap thier way to 150K miles. Please, do an apples to apples comparison. Use proof.

It really shows how little you know about anything. K series rev much higher to make power than LS blocks which has a direct effect on engine life. I don't care what you say, living at 8000+ will cause more trouble than a big block making that power at under half its redline.

You don't even have the slightest idea. I guess your forgetting what motor oil does, and how ****ty OHV valvetrains are.

My point was not to discredit the original SAFC tuning concept which again proves you have the reading comprehension of a 4th grader.

What was your point? And What did it have to do with what he asked?

[redtop91]

Based on what? Honda Engines have been able to run over the 200K mile mark for over 15 years.

Way to use a STOCK Honda motor as an example. My point remains that high HP small displacement motors are not reliable. Show me proof of a 300+whp NA honda that is over the 200k mark. I'll show you plenty of LT1's.

Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit is it? MY POINT IS THAT HIGH HP SMALL DISPLACEMENT NA MOTORS ARE NOT RELIABLE.

You don't even have the slightest idea. I guess your forgetting what motor oil does, and how ****ty OHV valvetrains are.

Which is why the C6R has been winning races for years with OHV. People can discredit GM for using dated tech but dated does not equate to inferior in every case.

What was your point? And What did it have to do with what he asked?

My reply was to address this:

i did do a ka-t setup .. going back to NA ka .. Need reliability and that is not possible without a built engine + $$$ on tuning.

He was thinking that a NA build will increase reliability. I was making it clear that he cannot achieve that with anything but low NA HP goals. Stop destroying this thread. Make another one and we can wage e-warfare all day. I won't reply to anymore of your posts

OP: My apologies.

[S3t0_S13]

lolzzzthis thead makes me laugh

[boznuttz]

I gained 20whp in mid range, and over 10whp at peak with a JWT ecu. I only had two mods besides the ecu. Intake, and header. Stock cams, Stock Exhaust, and a Auto trans.

I say pick up a used JWT ecu, and don't bother with the SAFC

On a KA with an auto transmission, you don't see the same benefits at all with bolt ons as you would a 5 speed. So I'll call an easy BS on that unless you can provide dyno charts of YOUR car before and after.

And you know what? I CAN. My brother's stock KA with an auto trans put a good 104 to the wheels. After a few weeks, we dynoed it again with a new intake, crank pulley, headers, straight pipe to replace the cat, and an Apexi 3inch N1 exhaust.

On the same dyno several weeks later......an amazing 110 to the wheels. They might be floating around here somewhere, and if not, I don't feel like getting it JUST for you. This was 2 years ago with a motor on 120k miles.

After performing a 5 speed swap on the same car, it dynoed at 142 on a dynojet.

Next time you want to start calling out other Nico members and acting like an Internet Gangster, just remember. Ignorance and posts like yours just make you look like even more of an idiot.

[Iceman00]

On a KA with an auto transmission, you don't see the same benefits at all with bolt ons as you would a 5 speed. So I'll call an easy BS on that unless you can provide dyno charts of YOUR car before and after.

And you know what? I CAN. My brother's stock KA with an auto trans put a good 104 to the wheels. After a few weeks, we dynoed it again with a new intake, crank pulley, headers, straight pipe to replace the cat, and an Apexi 3inch N1 exhaust.

On the same dyno several weeks later......an amazing 110 to the wheels. They might be floating around here somewhere, and if not, I don't feel like getting it JUST for you. This was 2 years ago with a motor on 120k miles.

After performing a 5 speed swap on the same car, it dynoed at 142 on a dynojet.

Next time you want to start calling out other Nico members and acting like an Internet Gangster, just remember. Ignorance and posts like yours just make you look like even more of an idiot.

Because I enjoy making others look like idiots, here you go.

Intake and header: autotransSame intake, same header, JWT ECU Auto trans.Oh, and a Dyno Dynamics dyno. They read lower



Installing JWT cams:





and Proof of my jwt ecu: 7000rpm redline

Unlike you and everyone else, I know what works because 1. I've tried it myself, and 2. I've talked to others who know.

[Iceman00]

Way to use a STOCK Honda motor as an example. My point remains that high HP small displacement motors are not reliable. Show me proof of a 300+whp NA honda that is over the 200k mark. I'll show you plenty of LT1's.

Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit is it? MY POINT IS THAT HIGH HP SMALL DISPLACEMENT NA MOTORS ARE NOT RELIABLE.

You talking specific output of a motor over 120hp/liter, compared to a motors volumetric efficiency of 70hp/liter. Yeah, apples to apples comparison my ***. Putting a LS1 at 500whp N/a, and I guarantee **** will break.

[boznuttz]

Well congratulations, your d!ck is huge.

I guess I sorta saw this coming, especially since we didn't verify whether it was an S13 chassis or not, and FWD and RWD auto trans applications have different outputs and hp loss to the wheels. And on that note, everything stated earlier does in fact apply to the S13 itself. Using an Altima as an example isn't the answer I was looking for, nor for a few onlookers......but it is our fault that we didn't specify that we were strictly talking about the KA24DE that came in the 240SX chassis, and not the Altima, since they clearly are not the same exact engine setup.

[boznuttz]

Comparing a FWD application KA to a RWD application KA is going to give different results. Again, it's comparing oranges to grapefruits, which are epically delicious... sometimes viewed as similar, but in no way have the same taste. One also makes you s*** flow regularly.

So all and all, we still aren't on the same page here, because we still are comparing different cars.

[Iceman00]

Well congratulations, your d!ck is huge.

Yes, this is true.

I guess I sorta saw this coming, especially since we didn't verify whether it was an S13 chassis or not, and FWD and RWD auto trans applications have different outputs and hp loss to the wheels. And on that note, everything stated earlier does in fact apply to the S13 itself. Using an Altima as an example isn't the answer I was looking for, nor for a few onlookers......but it is our fault that we didn't specify that we were strictly talking about the KA24DE that came in the 240SX chassis, and not the Altima, since they clearly are not the same exact engine setup.

I've seen Auto 240sx's put down 140+whp with bolt ons. Maybe your brothers car was a bad example. As always, I have proof.

As far as the altima goes, it uses the same 240/248 combo earlier S13 KA's used, but I do benift from less drivetrain loss.

[psi240]

damn i didnt know JWT made ecu for NA application.

Iceman - what octane is the ecu tuned for ? hows the idle, mileage etc compared to stock? What header are u using?

How come u dont have an aftermarket exhaust

[blackmagic]

the only thing i have to say is wow.... rwd fwd huge diffrence when on a dyno. my g/f has an auto 95 ka24de with intake and its still slower than my ka 5 speed was stock when i had it. when u are comparing 5speed to auto u cant compare unless they have transmission work and comparing fwd to rwd is the same stop trying to prov everyone wrong just cause you hate to admit u have learned somthing here. there will be people who know more. and like everyones saying u cannot build a high hp. na motor for reliability u can build one to last a long time and if u take care of it and dont drive it like an *** it will last long but then u have to think y the **** are you building a high hp na motor to drive like your moms kia? think about it man

p.s. if u realy think that a na ka will make that much power check out modified mag the december 07 issue on page 130 they dyno a s14 ka at 137.8whp and 156.9ft-lbs and that is with aluminum drive shaft lightweight flywheel injen long ram intake greddy ti 3inch exuast with dc headers and a vibrant cat now yes they say the ka was running out of steam but lets say thats at most 10hp and thats high so lets say its had 147.8whp and 160ft-lbs what more can u do to make the numbers higher some cams thats pretty much it unless u want to go into biggg money for little hp. but its pointless and no one wants to do that when u can go boosted for cheaper get a nice tune mabe run the jwt ecu if they make them for the s chassie motors idk i dont run a ka anymore and didnt realy run one for long.
Modified by blackmagic at 8:14 AM 2/10/2008

[boznuttz]

I've seen Auto 240sx's put down 140+whp with bolt ons. Maybe your brothers car was a bad example. As always, I have proof.

As far as the altima goes, it uses the same 240/248 combo earlier S13 KA's used, but I do benift from less drivetrain loss.

A few of the local shops around me that dyno a good amount of auto KA S13s before doing an SR swap ( Heavy Throttle, now Intense Auto Performance and a few others) all showed low numbers. So bolt ons on the S13s I've seen really don't do much with auto transmissions. However, on an Altima, I do see your point, and there can be a huge difference in the amount of power planted through different drivetrains.

[Iceman00]

damn i didnt know JWT made ecu for NA application.

Iceman - what octane is the ecu tuned for ? hows the idle, mileage etc compared to stock? What header are u using?

How come u dont have an aftermarket exhaust

Drives, idles, sounds just like stock. Requires 91, we have 93 in Florida. Gas milage is the same, if not 2mpg better than stock.

Header is FWD specific, and made by Stillen. Its 4-1 Configuration.

[Iceman00]

A few of the local shops around me that dyno a good amount of auto KA S13s before doing an SR swap ( Heavy Throttle, now Intense Auto Performance and a few others) all showed low numbers. So bolt ons on the S13s I've seen really don't do much with auto transmissions. However, on an Altima, I do see your point, and there can be a huge difference in the amount of power planted through different drivetrains.

Stock Auto S14