my slow low budget rebuild

Post by **s13-t** » Fri Mar 27, 2009 10:13 pm

Took the motor out because it needs a new oil pump and some other oem stuff along with a new turbo cause the t25 developed shaft play. oil press at idle was 11 when I stopped driving it.

basically Im a college student with no money but I want to do this right so whatever needs to be done will be done when I have the money for it. In all honesty I have no idea how much damage the bottom end has but I will cross that road when I come to it.

any input is welcome. If your selling parts that I need or ones you think I would be interested in then feel free to post a link.

here's my valve cover. look scorched? carbon build up maybe?

valve train

everything was really dirty, though that oil (mobil 1 fully synthetic 10w30) had less than 1k miles.

removed the CAS, the chain tensioner and the cams.

the flash makes the pic below look worse but does that look like lack of oil to the valve train or just carbon build up?

my head studs are an allen wrench.... anybody know what size?

guess what- after removing the crank pulley bolt I grabbed the pulley and yanked. I noticed a small amount of movement. as if my crank could slide a mm back and forth. This would almost 100 percent be a bad thrust bearing correct? however I NEVER heard knocks from the bottom end. Hear lifter ticks but never anything from the block. Now I know that my front main seal is bad because I have oil all around it on the front cover. so would a bad front main seal allow the crank to move a small amount?

Post by **s13-t** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 7:11 pm

removed the head today. had to go buy a 10mm allen head socket and a breaker bar but I got it done. I was worried that I had blown pistons but other than the carbon I dont think theres any damage. wat do you guys think?

so far my shopping list is as followsoil pumpwater pumpthermostatwater neck adapter- for water temparp head studs- have themcosworth head gasket- wat size should I get? frsprt has two thicknessesnew turbo elbow- or somehow get the stipped studs out of mineaem uegorandomn gaskets and sealsbc valve springsRAS

my t25 blew... so I need a rebuild kit or... I save for a s15 spec r with supporting mods

Post by **supreamS14** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 6:41 pm

If you have crank play now is the time for bearings.

Post by **Logan76** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 6:46 pm

I would pull the oil pan and look for any heat marking on the bearings, see if one looks different from the rest.

Post by **s13-t** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 10:50 pm

K so I made little progress. removed the lower oil pan to find bits of gasket. I then looked into the oil pick up to find it plugged... then I removed the baffle plate to find more debris settled on it. And crank walk has been confirmed. I have yet to look at any of the bearings but I did however peer down at the crank and watched it shift the fraction of a mm. I'm looking on the bright side though- I ask the question- what if I had continued to drive the car? how much longer before the motor chucked a thrust bearing? could have done alot of damage in the process. O well...

pics...

so now I have a few questions.

first off what are my options? Im assuming that in order to get out ALL of the crap floating around I will need to fully disassemble the engine and get it cleaned right? also- if I can identify the bad thrust bearing should I replace just that one? or should I replace every bearing in the bottom end to be sure?and one more question, this motor will probly never see more than 350 hp so should I go oem bearings or ACL race bearings. I want it to last!!!

Post by **Logan76** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 5:29 am

I would fully tear it down, have it hot tanked and have your rotating assembly and head also cleaned. I would replace all bearings and do a light hone and replace the piston rings while your at it, oem or acl is just a matter of preferance, I would use ACL.

Post by **supreamS14** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 9:12 pm

Red oil pan rvt? I don't think that is oem. I would freshen up the hole bottom end while you are this far into the motor. You don't really know for sure what this motor has been threw. By the red oil pan rvt, I would think some one has had both pans off.

Post by **s13-t** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 9:19 pm

yea i wouldn't be surprised. the plan is to basically call a few machine shops in town, figure out prices, look at the B.B.B. choose a shop then the rest is basically up to the machinist. If the block is within speck then I will re assemble with new bearings and new piston rings. If its not within speck then I will do what is necessary.

although having 86.5mm forged pistons and forged rods would be cool its pretty pointless for the power I want. I would be happy with 300 at the wheels.

but.. out of curiosity, how much torque/ power would be gained from the .5mm overbore alone?

one more thing. I removed all the lifters and found that some of them I could push some of them down but others wouldn't budge. of course they need to be re bleed but do the ones that seem frozen need to be replaced?
Modified by s13-t at 1:10 AM 3/31/2009

Post by **s13-t** » Sat Apr 04, 2009 6:34 am

k so the lifters that wouldn't budge were good, the others needed to be bleed.

small update, no pics. called a local machine shop. $30 total for the hot tank, 45 a piece for re surfacing. so that should get done probably next friday.

Post by **s13-t** » Sun Apr 05, 2009 8:18 pm

made some progress.

the main bearings look ok although on the backsides they look a little dark maybe scorched. the rod bearings look fine on both sides. the thrust bearings show evidence of lack of oil and one of them is considerably more tarnished than the other which would account for the half mm of crank play. The rods and pistons look normal, carbon on the pistons but no damage to the rings or anything else.

I know I need to remove the crank case vent tube, the oil drain, and plugs before the hot tank but do I need to remove the oil squirters?

Post by **duffman1278** » Sun Apr 05, 2009 9:50 pm

Good work.

And yea no lie the bearings look fine. However thats just from looking at the pictures.

I would suggest though that you just buy like some ACL bearings and put those in.

Post by **dc1984** » Mon Apr 06, 2009 1:44 am

i agree, like u said, u want to do this right. might as well replace what u can while ur there.

Post by **s13-t** » Mon Apr 06, 2009 10:34 am

yea Im not going to re use the bearings even though they seem fine. acl for sure.

anyways trying to figure out what bearing grade I need.

my crank23231 - for main bearings right?1122- for rod bearings?

block stamp22122

so... using this... hope u dont mind hijacker

Hijacker wrote:

im assuming I need these... std 2 green for the main bearings

and I need grade 1 rod bearings.

can sombody confirm this please.

now how do I go from the grade to which bearings to order? sounds like s dumb question but at frsport.com the acl race mains have the option for .025, .25, .50 and another option for extra oil clearance. so what do I buy????

Post by **duffman1278** » Mon Apr 06, 2009 12:55 pm

The ACL ones should just be universal.

iirc that chart is only if you're going to buy OEM bearings.

Post by **s13-t** » Mon Apr 06, 2009 1:43 pm

if they are ment to be universal then Y do they give the option of .025, .25, and .50?

Post by **duffman1278** » Mon Apr 06, 2009 2:35 pm

OOO you're talking about rod bearings.

That picture you showed is of the crank bearings.

Measure your bearings and see which ones you've got. Then get those for your application.

Post by **s13-t** » Mon Apr 06, 2009 7:48 pm

Modified by s13-t at 2:38 PM 4/7/2009

Post by **s13-t** » Mon Apr 06, 2009 7:56 pm

I actually think I figured out the bearing issue. The acl bearings are universal at STD. meaning that If the originals are a std (standard) then the acl std size will work and be within spec regardless of the original bearing grade. is this correct? and if so then I still dont understand why nissan used bearing grades when acl uses one universal size...

my target hp goal is 300whp daily driven preferably at a no higher than 16psi boost level. - reason for this is I would like the motor to last years. I want the power band to be very usable. I dont plan on drag racing or serious drifting although I will probably drift a few parking lots. The car might see a track a few times. Im keeping stock rods but upgrading the pistons. questions about pistons- 1. je cp or wiesco? 2. will a .20 bore make much difference from stock? what would the expected hp/ torque gain be from the bore alone? and would it be significant enough to help reach the 300whp at a lower boost?2. would increasing compression from stock to 9:0 help make the power with less boost? or would it hurt?

cams-fairly sure that I will get 256 cams as both turbos im looking at would work well with them. - gt2871r .64 or gt28rs (s15 spec r correct?)bc springs too

injectors- thinking 740cc but I have no idea what compony to go with. someone give impute?

tune- probly a simple ecu flash.

air flowhow much affect does an aftermarket intake mani make? is it worth the money to buy the greddy unit?how much does a port and polish help the flow?

I know I have alot of questions and have searched for all of them giving me basic knowledge on what I want but I want to hear current experiences and opinions before I dish out the cash.
Modified by s13-t at 2:52 PM 4/7/2009

Post by **s13-t** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 1:57 pm

went to remove the oil squirters and the first one snapped. did I do something wrong? i tried to loosen it.... lefty loosy.. and snap. wtf....

o and the baffle plate next to cyl. 4 looks damaged. where could I find a new one? stealership sentra motor?

Post by **themeanest240** » Sun Jan 17, 2010 9:32 am

did you finish?

Post by **s13-t** » Wed Jan 20, 2010 12:49 am

actually I am still making a pile of parts. motor is cleaned and decked. Actually found the LAST available baffle plate from nissan at a stealership in NJ.

Right now im working and paying for school so my build is going pretty damn slow. But when it comes time to build I will come back with alot of pics...

Post by **s13-t** » Mon Feb 08, 2010 11:57 pm

Hey guys, I am back with an update.

While waiting for my pistons bearings and gaskets to show up I decided to start cleaning the motor.

none of the bearings were spun or scorn however many of the journal surfaces have slight scoring marks... low oil press? Anyways they are all smooth to the touch and I have done my best to clean the markings with engine degreaser and brake fluid with a blue rag but havnt gotten the marks to go away. So should I get some emery paper and lightly sand the marks off? And if I do that would it affect my oil clearance?

Post by **s13-t** » Tue Feb 16, 2010 1:06 pm

UPDATEjust got my pistons in the mail. cp 86mmstill waiting for the bearings to show up.

Anyways I test fitted the cp wrist pins in my OEM rods and although their was less resistance than the stock pins I still could not rotate the pin inside the rod. So should I break out the emery paper?

hoping to assemble the motor this coming weekend, their will be alot of pics

Post by **s13-t** » Tue Feb 16, 2010 11:46 pm

While waiting for bearings, which should come tomorrow about 1pm, I decided to get the head ready to be mounted. I cleaned everything and shot compressed air through all the galleys.

I wound up using stock valves and retainers but I upgraded to BC springs and Supertech valve seals. During disassembly I labeled where each part came from so I made sure that the valves, retainers, shims, etc. went back into the same spot that way I won’t have to re shim

Here are some pics of my shiny new toys

and... i just found out my ring compressor wont be here till the 22nd. damn. I really wanted to finish it this weekend. sooo lame.

Post by **s13-t** » Thu Feb 25, 2010 7:06 pm

lol editi must have been on crack or something. good thing I ordered two sets of rings just in case I messed up.

haha okmy gaps will betop .020"2nd .024"oil .015"

I will assembly the engine on sat. I will have a buddy take some pics for the update.
Modified by s13-t at 9:55 PM 2/25/2010

Post by **s13-t** » Thu Feb 25, 2010 8:53 pm

I will do my best not to swear....

I purchased my rings from horsepower freaks. After looking at the ring gap and looking at the number stamped to the side of the boxes its clear that the sent me 85.5mm rings.... the end gap was huge. I will call them tomorrow. They better fix this...

edit: I sent them an email that night and woke up this morning to Dustin at BC calling me to request a picture of the rings and boxes. He said if it checks out then he will go ahead and send me the correct set.

edit: According to Dustin at BC; CP is sending out the correct set today.

So now that i have seen how awesome their customer service is... BUY CP, AND BC PRODUCTS!

Modified by s13-t at 10:19 AM 2/26/2010
Modified by s13-t at 2:02 PM 2/26/2010

Post by **s13-t** » Wed Mar 03, 2010 11:03 pm

UPDATE!!!my rings came in today.so I went and did my ring gaps.also put in my water pump and thermostat

I have also been spending alot of time working on my chassis. but pics of that will come later.

Sat. my buddy is coming to watch/ help take pics of me building the engine.

Post by **s13-t** » Sun Mar 07, 2010 1:30 am

engine is done!!!

gah... first engine I have built.... It was fun. Kinda seemed like an adult version of legos.

Anyways the timing chain was the only thing that really gave me problems. Apparently it had slipped off the crank gear as I was putting the front cover on and I didn't notice until I was putting the cams in... yea... And that little pin on the inside of the cover that's supposed to keep the chain from falling out well in this case it kept the chain from going on....

So I had to remove the valve train then the head studs then the head and then the front cover... fun stuff. Just goes to show how important checking and re-checking is during an engine build.

piston/ rod assembly 1

mains and rods torqued

front cover/ timing chain...

bleeding the lifters

think I used enough lube???

I will install RAS when I put in some pon cams

Damn... this made such a great piece of wall art. bachelor pad all the way!

done!!!!

My turbo should be here on Wednesday. Now I have to get a few more things and I will be back to driving my car

I have also been doing alot of work on my chassis. but.... I will probably post that update, a huge update, in a week or so.

Post by **zach-Ka** » Sun Mar 07, 2010 4:05 am

Awesome progress! I am about to start putting mine together also...

Post by **cazper6** » Sun Mar 07, 2010 8:53 am

Yes ! Very good progress!!! and its awesome that u are posting pics of the progress! ... i really like this forum and how ppl are on here.. alot better than alot of other forums ive been apart of! .. Good work on the motor tho! keep it up! and congrats on that beauty!

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