MY First Tank of Gas MPG = 33.8

[BRig]

With my brand new 2009 SL with CVT I went 315 miles on the free dealer tank of gas. When I filled it up today it took 9.3 gallons. This results in 33.8 mpg - right out of the box. This was mixed highway and city driving, some with AC on. After breakin it should go up. I am well pleased with the MPG and the car, so far.

[steed77]

Rock on... that is good. I have had mine for 3 weeks and have not even looked at it. It's better than my truck 12MPG on 93 octane.

Gonna have to see what the 6 speed does compared to the CVT.

[Bubs daddy]

Congrats on the good mileage. Mine consistently gets 32-33 mpg mixed driving, even more with just highway driving.

Just a reminder, try to fill up all the way to the top. Some nozzle sensors will trip far earlier than others. That means your calcs will be off a bit if you fill up at different stations or pumps. I always go beyond when it clicks and keep filling to as close to the top as I can. That way, I'm filling to the same spot every time and mileage and gallons used will be far more accurate.

Congrats on the Versa.

[azrael4h]

That's just 0.1 mpg higher than my 6 speed's first tank. But, I also eat lunch in the car, which this time of year means idling for a half hour with the AC running. My second tank was lower, at 30mpg, but I drove it a lot harder too, and had a couple more days running it at lunch.

[srellim234]

Congrats. Sounds like you managed to get one of the good mpg ones.

[BRig]

I also have an Infiniti G35 with 6 speed MT. It gets two types of mpg (very good and very bad). When I drive conservatively, I get 25 mpg. This is above what the car is rated for. When I feel frisky and get on the mpg goes way down, like 16 mpg. Some cars are more sensitive to driving styles. I suspect the Versa is one of them. The small engine has a narrow optimum performance band. Ones you get out side the band the MPG performance is not linear and drops off fast. I can’t believe that the small manufacturing variances between cars are the cause. Just my opinion.

[srellim234]

BRig

Over the last two years this subject has been beaten to death on these forums. Yes, the car has a very narrow optimum band but we have found drastic differences between individual cars that are driven using exactly the same driving style.

My Versa is the only car out of over 4 dozen mfrs and makes I've driven over the years that I've been unable to get at least my overall mpg to exceed the city rating. 63 mpg out of a Prius? No problem. 30 mpg highway out of Buick Century? No problem. My 2002 Buick Rendezvous seats 7 and I've averaged over 22.5 in that beast. I've changed driving style, tried different cruising speeds, etc. and my Versa is destined to get around 28 overall no matter what I do. 31-32 when driven 100% highway. The car was rated 30/36 when I bought it.

Others have reported the same types of discrepancies in mpg. Versas seem to vary from car to car no matter the driving style applied.

[BRig]

Srellim234OK, you convinced me that your driving skills and or style are not the root cause of the low mpg. Being new to the Versa and this forum, let me ask the next question that comes to mind:

I see you are from CA, is the Versa turned differently to meet state emissions? I am not sure if the Versa is sold as emissions certified for all 50 states. If it is then I have to accept your explanation as being possible (I am the new kid on the Versa block and learning about the car).

Seems to me that lots of young people drive the Versa. This is understandable because it looks cool and is cheap (lots of car for the money). Young drivers have more aggressive tendencies. They like to get up to speed quicker. My 24 year old son was with me the other day and said “hey dad, let me drive the car”. Well, during the next 15 minuets I had to yell at him at least 5 times to take it easy! This youth componet has to be part of the story.

[kc5f]

My 20-something daughter claims I drive "like a grandpa" but she gets about the same mileage I get. Our Versas and commutes are nearly identical, and we use the same no-ethanol regular gas. I'm looking forward to having a new CVT hatchback later this week, and seeing if my mileage in it is any different. (Of course the big test will be whether my 20-year old son gets the same mileage out of my current car, which he's buying from me!)

[srellim234]

No different emissions systems here on this car that I know of.

I think whatever it is that is affecting mileage on some cars is similar to the Versa fuel pressure regulator problems which have been ongoing for three years now. Something is happening, either in construction of a part or assembly, that is throwing off the cars (or making them substantially better in some cases) just a little bit. Not enough to cause the car to come off the line failing to meet quality control standards, but just barely different from car to car.

[BRig]

KC5fWow, you guys are a real Versa family. I see that as a good thing because you were satisfied enough to buy multiple Versa’s. Your driveway could be an advertisement for Nissan. Let me know what MPG your son gets. It will prove or disprove my youth theory.

[Bubs daddy]

Quote »OK, you convinced me that your driving skills and or style are not the root cause of the low mpg.[/quote]But not me. On the contrary, driving habits are PRECISELY the root cause of mileage. I do not subscribe that Versas are all so difference that the mileage variations have to do with the car itself.

What's the biggest variance when driving a car? The driver. What would be the biggest variance in mpg? The driver.

[frankoV]

I guess the test, BDaddy, would be for you to drive his car for a coupla weeks to see if there is a difference.

But since that ain't gonna happen, I suggest we don't beat this to death [again!].

[Bubs daddy]

Resolving a problem takes into account reason, practicality and logic. It would not be practical or logical for me to drive every Versa that one claims doesn't get good mileage. I would have to look at what would be a reasonable explanation.

On the other hand, seeing as starting at the simplest explanation would be preferred and most often right, it is precisely that "your mileage may vary" is a common disclaimer. It is common because it is, in fact, the cause of most mileage descrepancies.

I would also mention that error in calculating the correct mileage would also factor in this.

If you line up 1000 Versas and get 1000 different drivers in different states, what's the most plausible and reasonable explanation that they all get different mileage?

Driver habits, weather and road conditions, local fuel formulas, errors in mileage calculations and actual gallons used...

[srellim234]

Bubs- if they're all identical, how about explaining how some of the fuel pressure regulators are bad and some work just fine?

Other factors DO come into play. I agree that in the vast majority of cases the driver is the cause, but not in THIS case.

[Bubs daddy]

Other factors indeed but I've mentioned those. Most likely it is a combination of these factors.

There's no data on how fuel pressure regulators affect mileage in Versas (Versi?) that are so affected. If one Versa has been found to have rated mileage with a faulty fuel pressure regulator, then it may or may not affect the mileage.

Not to mention that 99% of people that own Versas don't post on a board so reported problems are skewed to indicate more problems than not.

How many fuel pressure regulators are bad compared to good?

Perhaps a car with a bad fuel pressure regulator is getting bad mileage. Then it is replaced and mileage goes up. But is that the case for every car?

Again, the simplest explanation would fit the situation. What is a most common complaint of drivers of all cars? Fuel mileage. What is the most variable factor? Driver habits and a combination of the factors listed below.

These other factors are: weather, elevation, road conditions, tire pressure, road grade, city /highway driving, average speed, local fuel formulas and others are the most reasonable and logical explanations.

[Shad0wXCalibur]

Bad mileage isn't just because of the driver. There's way too many variables down to variances in all the electronics that could cause bad or good mpg or mpg that shifts drastically depending on driving style. I can drive my Versa hard or easy and it gets about the same mileage either way. My old Neon was the same way. Drove it to 4k rpm from every stop and still got around 28 mpg every tank.

There is no single answer to bad mileage.

[srellim234]

You did NOT cite other factors in my case, saying you weren't convinced even though I've achieved better than EPA estimates on 4 dozen other vehicles but failed in only one car, my Versa. You still insinuated that it is the driver (me) that is causing this car to only average in the 28 mpg range.

Considering my driving experience, success with many cars, the large amount of time and effort I've put into trying to find a driving style that will achieve 30+ mpg with this car including a lot of help and suggestions from this forum, to still claim it's the driver is quite frankly a naive insult.

Also, I did not mean that it was the fuel pressure regulator that was causing the mpg variance, although it might be. What the reference meant to show was that two items, designed the same, assembled from like parts, can perform quite differently. Apparently even the malfunctioning ones are meeting quality control standards when the cars are assembled, which is why Nissan has issued a TSB and replaces the bad ones under warranty. Again, not every part, not every car comes off an assembly line identically and performs the same.

There have simply been too many drivers trying all the different driving styles suggested on this forum who are still not getting a 30+ mpg average. Overall, it's still a 28 mpg car. Just as the other cars I've driven aren't all the higher mpg cars I've been able to achieve with them.

[stuffy236]

I got 33 with somewhat spirited driving out of my first dealer tank. I've been babying it and I'm at 230 miles with just below half a tank so I should be getting much better gas mileage.

I've been following some of the guidelines I found here: http://ecomodder.com/forum/EM-...g.php

I plan to get a scanguage II and see where I can improve on.

[Bubs daddy]

Quote »Bad mileage isn't just because of the driver. There's way too many variables down to variances in all the electronics that could cause bad or good mpg or mpg that shifts drastically depending on driving style. I can drive my Versa hard or easy and it gets about the same mileage either way. My old Neon was the same way. Drove it to 4k rpm from every stop and still got around 28 mpg every tank.There is no single answer to bad mileage.

[/quote]You contradict yourself. You state bad mileage "isn't because of the driver" then state it is "depending on driving style."

I stated many of these variables. One of the variables is the driver. It is a combination. But to say bad mileage isn't because of the driver is wrong. The driver has a lot to do with the mileage.

That's why they state that "your mileage may vary.

[Bubs daddy]

Quote »You did NOT cite other factors in my case, saying you weren't convinced even though I've achieved better than EPA estimates on 4 dozen other vehicles but failed in only one car, my Versa. You still insinuated that it is the driver (me) that is causing this car to only average in the 28 mpg range. Considering my driving experience, success with many cars, the large amount of time and effort I've put into trying to find a driving style that will achieve 30+ mpg with this car including a lot of help and suggestions from this forum, to still claim it's the driver is quite frankly a naive insult.

Also, I did not mean that it was the fuel pressure regulator that was causing the mpg variance, although it might be. What the reference meant to show was that two items, designed the same, assembled from like parts, can perform quite differently. Apparently even the malfunctioning ones are meeting quality control standards when the cars are assembled, which is why Nissan has issued a TSB and replaces the bad ones under warranty. Again, not every part, not every car comes off an assembly line identically and performs the same.

There have simply been too many drivers trying all the different driving styles suggested on this forum who are still not getting a 30+ mpg average. Overall, it's still a 28 mpg car. Just as the other cars I've driven aren't all the higher mpg cars I've been able to achieve with them.

[/quote]I stated that it is a variety of factors. I listed them. Read my post. Driving is one of them. But not all. Fuel blends have a lot to do with it as does your commute and difference in city/highway.

You're taking this personally. Dial down the sensitivity and understand that there won't be enough difference in the parts (unless it's defective) to make that much of a difference. I know it is hard for you to hear the answer that you don't like to hear.

The ECU and the sensors makes the calcs. They are programmed the same for every Versa. With all the factors I stated, that is going to be the difference in mileage.

This misinformation basically stating that one Versa gets 32 mpg and another gets 28 simply because they're different Versas is, to use your word, naive. I listed many factors that, all or some together would result in your Versa getting the mileage it does.

Again, I listed many reasons why fuel mileage varies. Heck, tire pressure can affect mileage by 3-5% Of all of these that I listed, driving style has the most effect. It's been known for years. That may not be what you want to hear but there it is.

Blaming the car when others are getting better mileage isn't going to help you.

[srellim234]

But not me. On the contrary, driving habits are PRECISELY the root cause of mileage. I do not subscribe that Versas are all so difference that the mileage variations have to do with the car itself.

What's the biggest variance when driving a car? The driver. What would be the biggest variance in mpg? The driver.

THERE IS YOUR POST. YOU DID NOT CITE ANY OTHER FACTORS, ONLY THE DRIVER.

Sorry, but again, since various (and very successful) driving styles that have produced better than EPA mpg on other cars have been tried with this one, AND tire pressures were increased up to the maximum posted on the sidewalls as part of the adjustments, AND gasolines fillups from different vendors have been tried (with some producing lower mileage than what I'm getting with Chevron), etc., etc., etc. you are welcome to come over here and try getting better than 30 mpg out of my Versa on 50% city/ 50% freeway driving. But it will have to include the four stop signs, 25 mph speed limit and 2 traffic signals in the first >1/2 mile getting out of the neighborhood.

[BRig]

How about srellim and Bubs exchange cars for two weeks and then report the results? The rest of us can place bets who will win. I think a reasonable variation in regulator pressure would not impact the mpg as much as other factors. The engine only needs to get enough fuel so that it runs without stumbling or dropouts. Of course, the real engine control is done by the computer. It monitors everything (combustion by products, temperature, humidity, rpm’s air mass, gas pedal position, gas pedal stomps, etc) via sensors. The fuel to air ratio and ignition timing is alwaya being adjusted to achieve best performance. This is a tightly managed control process. The problem is that it is not 100% real time or instantaneous! It is always “catching up” to the human driving the car (one part in particular, the foot). During the catchup time lots of fuel is wasted. This is why driving styles strongly influence final mpg. With todays manufacturing technology we see few real bad cars. The Quality Control Process is supposed to insure all that all parts are made correctly and perform within very tight tolerances. In the real world, some bad parts make it into cars. Usually, they are found and replaced before the car is delivered to the owner. A worse situation is when the car receives some parts that are still in spec but on the margin. Their tolerance variations can stack up in the wrong direction. The result, a car that performs closer to the low end of the specs.

[Andrews Chalmers]

What a strange argument. I don't actually see what either has to gain from "winning" - oh wait, your car has bad MPG because of your driving - oh wait, no. It is the car.

Who paid for the car and who paid for the gas? Who cares about the other guy.

[srellim234]

I agree. There are always going to be a few cars, VERY few cars, that will stack up with parts at the top end of the margin and VERY few cars that have everything stack up at the low end of the margin. The rest are pretty much right where they are supposed to be. I recognize that mine could be a lot worse, and my original comment to the OP was to congratulate him on getting one of those VERY few that seem to have things stacked in his favor. It's the luck of the draw, just like picking out a lemon on the lot.

Incidentally, among those 2007 Versas with CVTs still reporting gas mileage to fueleconomy.gov, the results are 27.8, 28.8, 27.9, 28.5, 28.0 (mine), 30.6 and 29.7. 32 other cars quit reporting. So, overall the range is still a touch better than the 28 the EPA changed the car to and still worse than the original 30/36 the sticker showed.

[Shad0wXCalibur]

You contradict yourself. You state bad mileage "isn't because of the driver" then state it is "depending on driving style."

I stated many of these variables. One of the variables is the driver. It is a combination. But to say bad mileage isn't because of the driver is wrong. The driver has a lot to do with the mileage.

That's why they state that "your mileage may vary.

I'm saying some cars are very sensitive to driving style but if someone is simply just driving it easy and not being hard on it and still getting crappy mileage, you can't blame the driver. But most 4 cylinder cars aren't so crappy that mileage plummets just because you slam the gas a few times. These little engines don't produce enough power even at full throttle to suck down that much gas at once. It's not like a Corvette where it can get 30 mpg highway then once you floor it, it gets 10.

So if your Versa is getting not so great gas mileage, then like has been said before, it's just bad luck. Like you said "mileage will vary." Mine gets about EPA mileage every tank which I can't complain about. I've driven it, soft, hard, raced it a few times, and my mileage has never changed. It may be different for other people but I'm letting you know my mileage doesn't change no matter how I seem to drive it.

[Bubs daddy]

Quote »THERE IS YOUR POST. YOU DID NOT CITE ANY OTHER FACTORS, ONLY THE DRIVER.

[/quote]Calm down. lol You don't need to shout. You need to read.

I did cite other factors:

"Again, the simplest explanation would fit the situation. What is a most common complaint of drivers of all cars? Fuel mileage. What is the most variable factor? Driver habits and a combination of the factors listed below.

These other factors are: weather, elevation, road conditions, tire pressure, road grade, city /highway driving, average speed, local fuel formulas and others are the most reasonable and logical explanations."

I don't know if I cannot be more clear.


Modified by Bubs daddy at 1:17 PM 8/12/2009

[Bubs daddy]

Quote »I'm saying some cars are very sensitive to driving style but if someone is simply just driving it easy and not being hard on it and still getting crappy mileage, you can't blame the driver. But most 4 cylinder cars aren't so crappy that mileage plummets just because you slam the gas a few times. These little engines don't produce enough power even at full throttle to suck down that much gas at once. It's not like a Corvette where it can get 30 mpg highway then once you floor it, it gets 10.

So if your Versa is getting not so great gas mileage, then like has been said before, it's just bad luck. Like you said "mileage will vary." Mine gets about EPA mileage every tank which I can't complain about. I've driven it, soft, hard, raced it a few times, and my mileage has never changed. It may be different for other people but I'm letting you know my mileage doesn't change no matter how I seem to drive it.

[/quote]No, it's not bad luck. Luck has nothing to do with it. How can luck possibly affect mileage? This is nonsensical.

If you "floor it" the car will use more fuel than if you gently accelerate. That's a fact. What you are stating is completely false. Because the Versa has a smaller tank and uses less fuel than say, flooring a Corvette, it doesn't mean it won't affect mileage. It won't affect mileage as much as the Corvette because the Corvette has far more displacement, intake and volume for air and fuel when accelerated hard. But because the affected mileage will be incrementally smaller doesn't mean that it doesn't occur.

What I am saying is that if someone is getting bad mileage, it is a combination of factors I've have cited numerous times. Driving habits are part of that. Driving habits tend to be the most significant.

People are making the assumption that the driver is driving easy. What is driving "easy" for one driver and another can be totally different. Maybe they say thet are driving "easy" but in reality, they aren't.

How do we know this person is getting the right calculations for their mileage? Are they filling it to the same spot every time? Are they using the same gasoline blend?

I don't think anyone said mileage plummets because you slam the gas everytime. I stated that could be one of many factors if you're not getting the rated mileage. I never said anything about plummeting mileage.

Many here need to read what is written and not get so dramatic and emotional. I'm explaining what can cause lower than rated mileage. I'm saying that it is far more reasonable to ascertain that driver habits and the numerous other factors I stated have more to do with your mileage than blaming it on the car.

The cars are static (unless modified). What is variable? Everything else:

Driverweather conditionsroad conditionsroad gradetire pressurecity drivinghighway drivingseasonal fuel blendsnumber of passengers in the car (weight)speedaltitude
Modified by Bubs daddy at 1:27 PM 8/12/2009

[srellim234]

A. The cars are not static. That's why lemon laws exist and TSBs are put out.

B. If you follow the chronological order of this thread, you did not cite any other factors or retract your blame of the driver prior to my reaction. You only brought in those factors afterwards, and still claim that every car is identical coming off the assembly line, which they aren't.

C. Calculation errors in my case? I've logged my daily mileage for over two years since I purchased the car. I've tracked all 94 fillups which are a total of 927.123 gallons over 25,903 miles. Individual fillup point per tank is absolutely meaningless when calculating overall total mileage and gallons used over a two year period.

And yes, I do get sensitive when people see what's been tried with this car and still blame the driver.

I'm moving on to more constructive threads. Nothing positive is coming out of this argument continuing.

[Bubs daddy]

Quote »The cars are not static. That's why lemon laws exist and TSBs are put out.[/quote]Oh, dear.

Bubs daddy said: "...there won't be enough difference in the parts (unless it's defective)"

You really need to read. Barring defects (which I clearly stated) differences are insignificant.

I wasn't talking about cars with defects and TSB's. When I'm referring to static, I'm referring to two Versas without defects. Again, as I stated.

Maybe your mileage differences have to do with the fact you may do more city than highway driving. In CA, the fuel blend may cause a drop in mileage.

Again, I clearly stated and listed the factors that affect mileage. I stated that driver habits was significant. I never stated that the reason your car got lower mileage is because of you, the driver. I stated it is a combination of factors.

You're taking this way too personally. I might suggest you make your argument in a less emotional way and read what I've written. Could your mileage be affected by other things besides your driving? Of course. That's what I've suggested.

If you're talking about 2 mpg under the average EPA ratings than any one or a combination of reasons I stated could be the culprit.

The car is the constant. The driver and other factors are variables.