"Muslims killed us on 9/11"

[heliochrome85]

Make fun of the source if you want, but don't forget for one second that this guy has one of the largest followings in our media today.
http://jezebel.com/5663923/hell-serious ... n-the-view


also, women be crazy.

EDIT:

just to include this....


how i love christina hendricks... sigh...

[IBCoupe]

D'oh, websense. I'll look at it when I get to school.

[heliochrome85]

im getting my browsing in now because the hospital has the same system in place. im looking forward to only having email access for 14 hours.

[mattblancarte]

Bill-O was on a mission to disturb the peace. Mission accomplished.

I think he accurately described as to why some Americans are angry about the ground zero mosque. Doesn't mean that the anger is warranted, just that it's the reality of the situation.

[IBCoupe]

Yeah, nothing really notable in there. WAs hoping for something to talk about, but nothing really seemed worth it.

[n00b240]

Why must whoopi perpetuate the negro stereotype of the negro woman being loud and belligerent. She is an intelligent, and at times well spoken woman. I saw this on an email from a friend and had to jump on here to see the comments. Bill-o should have gone with Kelly and Hoda

Your hospital is quite strict helio, I think our hospital is only restricted when it comes to pRon, but I havent tried it out

[heliochrome85]

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/t ... uslim.html

[C-Kwik]

Terrorists use Islam to motivate hatred. Its an appalling thing to do. Yet Bill O'Reilly is in essence using Islam to motivate hatred as well. Big fat hypocrite I say...

[dusred]

Is what he said was true. . . the people who killed us on 9/11 were Muslims. Were they not? Do all Muslims agree with what their fellow Muslims did? No. Do all Muslims see it as their mission to destroy America? Absolutely not. Are all Muslims extremist terrorists? No. Are all Muslims associated with Alquida? No. Did the people who killed us on 9/11 happen to be of the Muslim faith? Yes. Was it because of their faith that they killed us on 9/11? . . . that's the question that each can answer on their own. In my opinion the Muslim faith did play a part the events of 9/11 but was not the sole motivation behind the attack. How big of a part did it play? I will probably never know.

The next question is have Muslims in other countries stood up and condemned those who did kill us on 9/11? Some may have but not many.

[AZhitman]

O'Reilly's a doof, and he was probably dumbing it down for that gaggle of mouthbreathing, gossipmongering, has-been wenches.

Let's not forget, Whoopi has said some colossally ignorant things herself.

[heliochrome85]

O'Reilly's a doof, and he was probably dumbing it down for that gaggle of mouthbreathing, gossipmongering, has-been wenches.

Let's not forget, Whoopi has said some colossally ignorant things herself.

she doesnt have the following he does. her ignorance does not excuse his.

[heliochrome85]

Is what he said was true. . . the people who killed us on 9/11 were Muslims. Were they not? Do all Muslims agree with what their fellow Muslims did? No. Do all Muslims see it as their mission to destroy America? Absolutely not. Are all Muslims extremist terrorists? No. Are all Muslims associated with Alquida? No. Did the people who killed us on 9/11 happen to be of the Muslim faith? Yes. Was it because of their faith that they killed us on 9/11? . . . that's the question that each can answer on their own. In my opinion the Muslim faith did play a part the events of 9/11 but was not the sole motivation behind the atttack. How big of a part did it play? I will probably never know.

The next question is have Muslims in other countries stood up and condemned those who did kill us on 9/11? Some may have but not many.

http://www.tnr.com/blog/foreign-policy/ ... -terrorism

also, your response was right on the money. islam did play a role, but to the extent that christianity motivates the people who run the Westboro Baptist Church, or those who shoot up abortion clinics. Religion provides the framework for their twisted ideology, but it is in and of itself, not twisted.

[IBCoupe]

Dusred, if you're wanting to look into technicalities about whether O'Reilly is right or wrong, how about doing the whole thing? He can't possibly have been among those killed on 9/11, because he's still alive.

So who's this "us" that he's speaking of? And how killed are they?

It was a foolish comment, and he was flipped out at for it. Instant Karma, just add crazy!

[Cold_Zero]

I thought the exchange was hilarious. This guy is the cable news version of a shock jock, he goes onto a show his viewers would consider the 'lions den' and totally de rails the show to the pointnt that two of the most outspoken hosts walk off the set. Classic! I have always hated Bill O so please don't think I am defending him. I think this exchange shows what is wrong with America today, ignorance on both sides, the lack of good faith dialog and the lack of caring to correct a brother or sister who is wrong. Not for selfish I am right you are wrong motives, anyway.


-Post coffee edit without Android phone.

[dusred]

the extent that christianity motivates the people who run the Westboro Baptist Church, or those who shoot up abortion clinics. Religion provides the framework for their twisted ideology, but it is in and of itself, not twisted.

.

Exactly right. It is the extremists that give religion a bad name.

I like to think of myself as a Christian but I would piss on the graves of the people of the Westboro Baptist Church (or maybe I could just forgive them? Oh snap. Now I'll have to rethink my faith )

[heliochrome85]

http://tv.gawker.com/5665387/bill-oreil ... n-the-view

[dusred]

http://tv.gawker.com/5665387/bill-oreil ... n-the-view

You gotta strike while the iron is hot. He is, after all, selling his new book.

[96Qowner]

Gallup did a worldwide poll in 2008 and found that 7% of Muslims think 9-11 was justified. I have yet to see any Muslim leadership publicly say otherwise. They've certainly been asked repeatedly to say so. They all weasel and twist and justify, and never fully condemn the sentiment behind the attack. I've never heard any Muslim say these people were filthy abominations who will burn forever in hell for what they did. No,it's WE who simply don't understand the misguided nobility of their great sacrifice.

Musims DID kill us on 9-11. That's a fact. Anyone who thinks that means ALL Muslims, is an idiot or has trouble with comprehension, something that's often sacrificed for the sake of Political Correctness. One out of every 14 Muslims is pleased with the attack. That's a lot of Muslims. Worldwide Muslim leadership has for decades been spouting hate against America. Entire countries have based their national patriotism on hatred and violence against America.

O'Reilly specifically condemned the morons in Florida who wanted to burn the Koran, immediately and with no weaseling or justification, etc.

[heliochrome85]

"No,it's WE who simply don't understand the misguided nobility of their great sacrifice."

where did anyone say anything about a great sacrifice?

also
"I've never heard any Muslim say these people were filthy abominations who will burn forever in hell for what they did."
thats cause you dont watch arabic news. i do, and they have repeatedly. what interest does fox news have in reporting that muslims are reasonable?
7% of muslims is around 70 million globally. even if what you said is true, think about how many muslims live in places like Gaza, the West Bank, Bangladesh, Pakistan. places where their living conditions are directly due to US policy. funny how then the narrative changes. Maybe they hate the US not for its freedoms, GASP, but rather for the policies it has supported that have left millions of people world wide in conditions that most people wouldn't let their dog live under.

Dont believe me? it isnt just a muslim issue. you could say the same about christians in china. or jews in russia. or iran. the fact is, the US HAS played a role in keeping status quo in unstable regions, its been doing so since at least the truman administration.

"Entire countries have based their national patriotism on hatred and violence against America."
--yeah, so what? have you seen a tea party rally lately? im more scared of them and what they may do, than anything Ahmadenijad may say.


lastly, unless ive been living in some alternate reality, chances are that i am fairly attuned to the issues faced and raised by the moderate muslims in the middle east. I am aware of the extremists and the resulting distaste for it in the middle east. Don't try to lecture me about how muslims/arabs think. To try is about as useless as saying all americans believe in XYZ. Islam is a melting pot religion spanning all inhabited continents. and what people believe changes from city to city, even throughout the middle east.

[96Qowner]

what interest does fox news have in reporting that muslims are reasonable?

Fox news? Surely you watch NBC or ABC or CBS or CNN or MSNBC or PBS or BBC. I've never seen a Muslim representative or spokeman or whatever, on any channel, say the things you claim they believe. I'd think it would be more productive to say so on American TV rather than their own Arabic ones. Wrong?

7% of muslims is around 70 million globally. even if what you said is true, think about how many muslims live in places like Gaza, the West Bank, Bangladesh, Pakistan. places where their living conditions are directly due to US policy. funny how then the narrative changes. Maybe they hate the US not for its freedoms, GASP, but rather for the policies it has supported that have left millions of people world wide in conditions that most people wouldn't let their dog live under.

Dont believe me? it isnt just a muslim issue. you could say the same about christians in china. or jews in russia. or iran. the fact is, the US HAS played a role in keeping status quo in unstable regions, its been doing so since at least the truman administration.

"Entire countries have based their national patriotism on hatred and violence against America."
--yeah, so what? have you seen a tea party rally lately? im more scared of them and what they may do, than anything Ahmadenijad may say.

lastly, unless ive been living in some alternate reality, chances are that i am fairly attuned to the issues faced and raised by the moderate muslims in the middle east. I am aware of the extremists and the resulting distaste for it in the middle east. Don't try to lecture me about how muslims/arabs think. To try is about as useless as saying all americans believe in XYZ. Islam is a melting pot religion spanning all inhabited continents. and what people believe changes from city to city, even throughout the middle east.

Okey dokey. I didn't know I was lecturing. I thought I was posting my opinion as you've posted yours. It sounds like we're in total disagreement, but just in case, I'll ask.

You sure didn't intend for your opinion to look like any sort of justification for the cold blooded mass murder of 3000 innocent American people ... ? There's just no conceivable excuse for that, is there?

[srellim234]

96- I don't know what channels you watch or how limited your viewing time is but I've seen plenty of that condemnation of Muslim terrorists by Muslim leaders. Unfortunately the American press has only covered it in limited quantities because they're more interested in selling sensationalism and maintaining rifts that will continue to sell. They have no desire in a solution to any rift anywhere.

In case you're interested, here's a three year old link to a bunch of those condemnations you never saw:

http://www.muhajabah.com/otherscondemn.php

[heliochrome85]

RE: 96Q

i watch and or read all of the ones you mentioned. again, it doesnt serve the narrative. i only referenced fox news because they are the loudest in this field. Also, how often do you think moderate arabs are asked to come on those networks? its about as often as sane katrina victims were asked after the hurricane.

you can put down the flag. you dont need to remind me about 9/11. ask anyone here, i think i'm a bit more intimate with 9/11 than most. i do not condone the actions of those people. i never have and i never will. I simply provided a framework whereby such radical ideas and theology can take root. but what do i know?

[96Qowner]

Thanks, helio, and I'll take great pains not to cop a tude. I'm not a flag-waver, I'm just completely fed up with the argument that there's any justification for purposely targeting civilians. Fed up. I hadn't considered the filtering that commercial media do. I think you're right.

I've certainly seen this media phenomenon before, and it aggravates the heck outta me. The news media themselves stereotype populations, and choose spokespersons for those populations in a way that serves their own (the news media's) purposes, not ours or those that the spokesmen are purported to represent. It's like they create a structure for marketing commercial news and then just plug stories into it.

Like they did with the Tea Party.

[heliochrome85]

i appreciate it. im not really out to get anyone, but it aggrevates me to no end to hear the same arguments made my shock jocks, here on this forum. and yes, exactly the same way they did with the tea party.

[IBCoupe]

I've run into your particular problem, 96Q, on more than one occasion. Sometimes, I'll try explore or explain a person's motivations for committing their particular crime. People sometimes get confused and think that I'm defending or excusing the behavior. I'm not.

But if you see a bear in the woods, and you walk up to it and punch it, I don't think we could say that the bear was justified in ripping you limb from limb. That's definitely a disproportionate response. But you knew it was a bear, and you punched it anyways. Maybe you had a good reason for punching it, but getting ripped limb from limb is something you might want to consider as a possibility before you do it.

Where I'm going with that analogy is this: unless you commit yourself to understanding the nature of your enemy, especially your enemy's motivations, you will have no other option available but to fight them forever. It may just be that their motivations are so radical and incomprehensible that there, in fact, may be no other option. But if you don't take the time to recognize why they're fighting you, you will not discover any other means of ending the conflict.

Often we're told that al-Qaeda attacked us because they declared a jihad on us, when I'm fairly certain that the jihad was only the decree, made in response to some other factor. An Osama bin Laden told us, after 9/11, that he attacked us because of our military presence in Saudi Arabia, and our continued support for Israel. Maybe upon hearing that, we might say that it's not worth getting rid of those things. The value we gain by having both a military presence in Saudi Arabia and an ally in Israel is outweighed by any cost al-Qaeda might impose upon us. But we need to at least take the step of recognizing the connection between the two.

[BusyBadger]

But if you see a bear in the woods, and you walk up to it and punch it, I don't think we could say that the bear was justified in ripping you limb from limb. That's definitely a disproportionate response. But you knew it was a bear, and you punched it anyways. Maybe you had a good reason for punching it, but getting ripped limb from limb is something you might want to consider as a possibility before you do it.

The United States is the bear, and it's the extremists that have punched us in the nose. From a military standpoint punching us in the nose is about all they're capable of, while we are quite capable of ripping them limb from limb. The thing is that so far it hasn't really proven to be worth our while to do so, there are too many ramifications in the world view for us to do so. But given a large enough strike (and body count) the bear is going to say DILLIGAF about the ramifications and start ripping limb from limb. Is there anyone that thinks an assault on a "Chinese Bear" would have taken remotely the same path as one with the "NATO Bear" has? The mineral rights that China looks for in Afghanistan introduce some interesting scenarios in the region. I'm curious why China hasn't expressed a larger interest in the security of Afghanistan, and I'm even more curious why the United States hasn't insisted they do so.

Got off track there towards the end. Back to the original topic...

The thing is that the clock is against the extremists, the world is too small and too well connected now - our best weapons are smartphones and the internet. America doesn't win through military power anymore...it's all about iPods, blue jeans, Coke and MTV. It's a desperate situation for the extremists and they know it. Too large a strike against us and we're going to stop holding back at all and if they wait too long for action they continue to lose more "converts" that see the western way of life really isn't so bad, what with clean water, broadband and air conditioning. Our way of life is pretty infectious and it starts out very slowly with small steps and soon you're "in the fold".

The value we gain by having both a military presence in Saudi Arabia and an ally in Israel is outweighed by any cost al-Qaeda might impose upon us. But we need to at least take the step of recognizing the connection between the two.

Based on the context did you mean to say exactly the opposite? That the cost AQ might impose on us is outweighed by the military presence in SA and Israel?

[IBCoupe]

Yes, that's what I meant - and I wasn't saying that it's definitely that way. I'm saying that we need to make that determination (or the opposite one).

[wingFeather]

I don't see "Islam" doing anything to distance themselves. Hmmm...

[srellim234]

http://www.muhajabah.com/otherscondemn.php

Maybe you're putting your fingers in your ears and screaming, "LA, LA, LA LA!" really loud because you don't want to hear that many of them are.

[96Qowner]

One should always read links before posting 'em. I went through several mealy-mouthed "condemnations" and broken link after broken link before finding one that actually lists strong condemnations by significant Muslim leaders. That list is an embarrassment. Here's the good one:

http://www.unc.edu/~kurzman/terror.htm