Motor won't start. Need troubleshooting help

[Darius]

I have an R33 RB25DET installed in a 97 auto S14 that I converted to manual in the process of swapping in the RB. I changed the timing belt, head gasket, plugs (gapped to 0.8mm), and the usual maintenance items prior to installing the motor.

Ok I extended the MAF wires and shielded them with aluminum foil. I prepped the lower harness according to Alex's writeup and prepped the upper harness according to ehacker01's write-up plus I added the wipers too. They're about the only things running properly right now. Bought a new battery, hooked it up, but forgot to ground the wires from the M63 plug to the chassis. Tried to start it and nothing happened except for I heard the fuel pump pressurize and a few relays clicking (plus a slight buzzing sound) Then, realized that those wires weren't grounded and connected them. Next try it turned over, but didn't fire up or even ignite once. Looked to the ECU and it threw a 21 code which is ignition related.

Tested the continuity of the wires between the 7-pin plug on the ignitor to the ECU for each coil. I only had continuity between pins 1 and 1 and ground and ground.

Pulled the plugs and none of them smelled like gasoline but I don't know if that means a whole lot??

That is about all I know, so if anyone can make some suggestions that would be extremely helpful.

[USMCgetsome]

ok sounds like fuel pressure/fuel problems. Now, 1st things to check.

12VDC - Coil packs 2 wire plug black and white. Check the coil packs by putting the spark plug to a ground and cranking the engine. You should see spark. If so then that's good. if not then check the the ground wire coming off the harness to the coil packs. It usually grounds at the back of the block.

Next go to the fuel injector plugs and there are 2 of these. 1 for ecu pluse signal and the other for the 12vdc and ground.

Easy way to test that is to pull the cas apply ignition power to the system and turn the CAS slowly and listen for the fuel injectors to make a clicking noise individually.

Check the fuel lines aren't swapped.

feed line goes on bottom to pressure the line.line on top is the return which comes off of the fuel pressure regulator.

if you need more help email me at [email protected]

[Darius]

So I double checked the continuity between the ECU and ignitor and apparently my roommate doesn't know how to use a multimeter probe. As a result, there is continuity between all of the wires so no problems there. The motor should be getting spark, but I will still pull the coil packs and test them with a plug tester (light up tool).

Next, is to check the injector system after that.

Fuel lines are correct, but one thing I thought of was whether or not my gas could be bad <insert fart joke here>. The gas in my tank is about 1/3 of a tank worth and it's 89 octane (15% ethanol) and it's 8 months old. My question is, how long does it take for gas to go bad?

I'll keep everybody posted...

[USMCgetsome]

HA... mines been sittin since august with a full tank. When i started it yesterday i saw 3/4 of a tank and that was 89 octane. So, you should honestly be fine. I did purge a lil before i put it on the fuel rail. Did you change fuel filters?

Hell yeah check the spark plugs.

[DriftingisLame]

I've been having a similar no spark problem.. No spark at any coil. I've followed the wires all the way back to the ECU and there all solid... Power and good ground to each one.

I'm not sure if I have fuel yet, but I figure I have to fix my spark sooner or later...so I'm not gonna stress the fuel part just yet.

My car used to run, but not on all cylinders...hence the reason I removed the harness in the first place to discover that someone had grounded coil #1's power wire.. I fixed that and now it doesnt run at all = /

[armysweitzer]

id second checking spark again because its easy to eliminate and i just found half of my spark plug missing.... "hmm i never new my car ran this good with all 6" i say after i replaced them.

[USMCgetsome]

ok you guys need to check the ground wire at the back of the coil pack harness for proper grounding. That's a big killer.

After you confirm good ground. then check your power and ground on the 2 pin plug should be grey color with a black and white wire. You need to ensure those are correct. It's not hard to do any of this with a multimeter. If you guys need some pictures or video to help just ask.

[Darius]

I checked a few more things tonight, the CAS and MAF.

CAS, every wire had continuity to the ECU and ground etc. except for pin #52 which did not exist on my harness. It is for the 1 degree signal tapping off of the main wire that runs to pin #42. Anybody else have this issue while trouble shooting? Do I need this pin in order to run? Also, the colors did not match the wiring diagram that I am using, but they lead to the proper pins on each plug. I don't know if that is a big deal or not. Prolly not.

AND I checked the CAS by turning the key to the ON position and manually rotating the CAS to see if the injectors would make noise and nothing happened when I did this.

MAF, every wire had continuity to the ECU and ground etc. so that lead me to page EN-317 in the FSM to measure the voltage between pin #27 and ground. I was kind of confused as to how to have the key in the ON position and then check the pin when it is plugged into the ECU. Is there a way to get to the pin from the wire side or am I doing something wrong?

Hopefully this will clarify some issues, but I haven't had time to think it all the way through yet.

[Tictakman]

um, with the cas ur not looking to hear anything from the injectors but ur trying to hear for the whine of the fuel pump. is it doing anything?

[USMCgetsome]

INCORRECT! When the cas is removed and spun in either direction you will hear injectors clicking. It is the timing for the injectors. The fuel pump only works off of the fuel pump relay and eccs relay and fuel pump fuse.

wire from the grey plug for 12vdc. Also, did you confirm the 2 plugs from the lower harness into the injector harness and coil pack harness for power.

Bro if you need pics let me know. Don't be shy. Cause i think that's what your problems is.

[300Plus]

Ive heard alot of ppl having ground trouble. Where they just added a few grounds to the intake mani and block and bam cranks right up

[Darius]

KUILLIN, I rotated the CAS in its mounted position last night, but I will pull it completely off and spin it tonight. Also, I only had about a half hour to work on the car last night so I didn't get to confirm the wiring from the gray plugs and the plug at the back of the motor. I'll have a lot of time to do it tonight so I'll keep you posted.

300Plus, My grounding wire from my battery was attached to my KA block, so I just reattached it to one of the transmission mounting bolts on the RB when I installed it. Is this okay or should it be grounded directly to the chassis?

Tictakman, Yes everything else works including fuel pump and wipers and all that stuff.

[USMCgetsome]

ground to the chasis crazy!!!!!

[Darius]

Figured out half of my problem thanks to KUILLIN...The injectors weren't powered via the gray wire for external power that the S1 motors have. So I jimmy rigged a wire from the battery temporarily and the injectors now work. However, I am only getting spark to one cylinder since I can hear it fire separate from everything else.

The other half of the ignition has yet to be solved, but I'm guessing it is the ignitor. There is continuity from the ECU to all of the ignitor wires and continuity from the ignitor to the coil pack wires. Good ground too, so that kind of narrows it down a bit. Plus the ECU is throwing code 21 (ignition).

DAMMIT I'm so close I can taste it!

[USMCgetsome]

just gotta do what i told you this morning. Pull the coil pack with the plug and put it to the valve cover and watch for spark while you crank.

easiest way to do it.

[Darius]

Now I'm very confused. I got the spark testers in the mail and hooked them up to the motor. When it was cranking, there was spark at each cylinder. I'm not saying it was sparking properly or strongly because I don't know, but the things were lighting up. I'm getting frustrated now because I can smell the fuel and I can see the spark, but it doesn't fire up. Checked the timing belt again and that was still correct. Any wild a$$ ideas are welcome at this point.

[USMCgetsome]

replied to email. That has to be the last thing is a sensor not being connected.

[Darius]

I checked all the sensors and the pin I mentioned above (#52 for the 1-degree signal from the CAS) should be connected even though there is not one there currently. I'll look at it in a couple days and see if it works.

[Valley]

when you look at it in a cupple of days, do a compression check as well..

[300Plus]

did you ever correct your grounds? I remember one person telling me that they had the proper factory grounds but ended up adding a ground wire from the intake mani to the body and i believe and extra ground on the bock.

[Darius]

I have the negative battery cable grounded to the chassis, and at this point I'm willing to try anything to get this started. A compression test should be run if nothing else works since I have to buy the gauge for it, but that would be nice to know for sure.

Another thing I just remembered was that I didn't have Pin 8 (ECCS Ground) in my RB M63 plug. This is probably a pretty major issue. Where is the B-86 plug that it pins into at "CDE1"? I don't get how my motor would run without this wire in place?
Modified by Darius at 1:17 PM 4/3/2006

[turbocrisper]

my car rb20 did the same thing replaced the igniter and reset ecu runs well now

[dipsetd1]

Hey if u cant get it started hit me up ill get it started for you for some cash r parts

[Darius]

I appreciate the offer. I'm going to finish checking everything more thoroughly, then post what I find and let you guys have at it. If I still can't figure out what is wrong with it, then I might end up sponsoring one or a few interested parties to come over and give it a shot. It has to be a part issue because I'm 99% confident in my wiring. I will keep everyone up to date though...sit tight

[FAST-DATSUN]

You need battery - to chassis, engine to chassis in at least 2 places, harness to engine by temp swt and by the computer these ground are very important....

[Darius]

I visually verified spark to all 6 cylinders with the plugs resting on the valve cover. I also ran a compression test on all 6 (cold of course) and the results are as follows:

Cylinder Reading (psi)1 1572 1453 1524 1525 1506 152

Later this weekend I'll start looking into the fuel injection wiring, power, etc.

[USMCgetsome]

well that just says it all right there.

Has to be sensor related. Do you have these plugged in"

CASFUEL INJECTOR (2 PLUGS)KNOCK SENSORSWATER TEMP SENSORAIR TEMP SENSOROXYGEN SENSORAIR REGULATOR(BOOST SOLENOID)AAVMAFTHROTTLE POS SENSOR

Check fuel pump fuse. eccs relay. wire pin 58 to 12vdc

dude you have everything your supposed to have. compression, ignition, fuel. Don't know what else to suggest to ya. That has to be it. check all your fuses then get back to us about checkin the eccs relay.

ALSO RESET THE ECU!!!!!! disconnect power from + terminal on battery and step on brake for 10-15 secs then wait about 5 mins replug power and crank over.

[Darius]

The only sensor that is not plugged in is the TPS. The plug is plugged in, but there aren't any wires coming from it. This shouldn't be a problem since I have a video of my motor running without it plugged in prior to shipping it. Why wouldn't it have a TPS sensor harness on it in the first place?

[USMCgetsome]

the tps has two female receptacles on it. the bottom is for manual and if 2 are plugged in then it's for auto transmission setup. Did ya reset the ecu? come on bro keep us posted. It'll fire if we keep checkin thing.

[Darius]

ECU has been reset about 50 times just because I unplug my battery so it doesn't sit there and drain. Even after I try to start and it doesn't fire, there are no engine codes thrown and the ECU reads code #55, which is all systems are GO correct?

Pin 58 has 12VDC when the key is ON. The ECCS relay has 12VDC when the key is ON.

All of the sensors are plugged in, I triple checked.

I'm dreading pulling the top of my intake manifold to get at the injectors since I can hardly even reach the bolts to take them out let alone reinstall them.

You're right, I have everything (spark & compression for sure) but it doesn't fire at all. I have my spark plugs gapped to 0.8mm. I know injector #1 is getting 12VDC when the key is in the ON position. I am assuming my timing is okay with the CAS bolts lined up near the middle of the slot. The only thing I don't really know is if the injectors are actually firing (misting). This leads back to pulling the top of the intake off...

I am seriously wondering if bad gas could also be an issue after sitting in a freezing cold garage all winter (9 months total).