Mosque at Ground Zero

[TroubleBound]

Saw a group on facebook so i looked it up on Google. Imam Rauf is building a 13 story, $100 million dollar mosque 2 blocks from Ground Zero. He says that they are trying to make good of what happened on 9/11, proving that it was un-Islamic.

I am all for religious freedom and what not, but there are numerous locations in the city that the mosque could have been put up. I feel our religious tolerance is being taken advantage of. Like the woman in this article said (http://wcbstv.com/topstories/ground.zer ... 79988.html) "They wouldn't build a German Cultural Center at Auschwitz"
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atla ... agony.html

What are you guys' thoughts on this?

'A' is where its going:

[Looneybomber]

You know, eventually people have to lick their wounds and make up. Do you think Japan is still mad at us for dropping 2 nukes on them? Are we still mad at them for Pearl Harbor? (I think it's evident by the existance of this forum that we're not) Bad things happen, but you can't hate forever.

[infinitgkid]

"They wouldn't build a German Cultural Center at Auschwitz"

That is a good point.

I can see where the placement of the mosque could be an issue, but I think their motives somewhat justify it. Just think about it for a moment...

After 9/11, the Islamic nation definitely took some heat from society. Whether it be from terrorlst jokes to outright racial/religious discrimination. I think that what they are trying to do is clear their name as a religious group. I don't believe that the attacks of 9/11 were acts of worship to their god figure, on the other hand, I DO believe that the religion was manipulated to get the terrorists of 9/11 to carry out their mission. I believe that almost every religion that people follow on this planet has received some level of manipulation to benefit someone or someone's cause; good or bad. I am a christian that believes in Jesus Christ, and I also attend a christian school where the gospel is crammed into the minds of people like myself every hour of every day, but I also believe that there is a thin line between accepting a belief system and being brainwashed.

I agree with the OP that our religious tolerance is being taken advantage of, but not in a negative way... but in fact, Imam Rauf is exercising his religious freedoms (like all Americans) to redeem his belief system. I see this issue as a man trying to get a second chance for his religious brothers and sisters. And, after all... isn't the freedom to gain second chances that make this country so great and worth fighting for?

[IanS]

Honestly, it doesn't bother me in the slightest.

Look at things from the perspective of someone who practices Islam. They had absolutely nothing to do with the attacks, they just happen to believe some of the same things as the perpetrators, and because of it they are being persecuted. Personally, if I were of Islamic faith, then I would be even more pissed off than most people.

Extremists aren't crazy because of their religion, they use religion as an outlet/catalyst for their insanity.

Live and let live.

Do you think Japan is still mad at us for dropping 2 nukes on them? Are we still mad at them for Pearl Harbor? (I think it's evident by the existance of this forum that we're not) Bad things happen, but you can't hate forever.

Some people are. Some people just dont know how to let go.

[Jesda]

I don't care. Just dont build a Bose store.

[infinitgkid]

I like their noise canceling headphones...

I want to get some when I get some more money. I think they're pretty groovy...

[Jesda]

I like their noise canceling headphones...

I want to get some when I get some more money. I think they're pretty groovy...

Well I'm going to make damn sure you cant buy one near ground zero!

[PoorManQ45]

I don't care. Just dont build a Bose store.

People need to stop being babies...

I like their noise canceling headphones...

I want to get some when I get some more money. I think they're pretty groovy...

Seriously... There are products 10x better then their "Noise cancelling headphones". They like to advertise that they were developed for use in the Air Force. Well, they don't tell you that the Air Force rejected them because they don't work very well!

A set of Sennheisers will blow them away AND sound much better while costing you less.

[Watermelonwarrior]

Seriously... There are products 10x better then their "Noise cancelling headphones". They like to advertise that they were developed for use in the Air Force. Well, they don't tell you that the Air Force rejected them because they don't work very well!

A set of Sennheisers will blow them away AND sound much better while costing you less.

Its all about those Beats By Dre. Seriously you hear things in songs that you never knew was there.

[Looneybomber]

Well, they don't tell you that the Air Force rejected them because they don't work very well!

Hey, I am in the AF, and I can neither deny nor confirm your claim.

[Dattebayo]

One could also say that putting a mosque that close is a mark of their achievement rather than an apologetic gesture...

[Jesda]

Its all about those Beats By Dre. Seriously you hear things in songs that you never knew was there.

Those are like aids for your ears

[Urabus GodofTraction]

Well, they don't tell you that the Air Force rejected them because they don't work very well!

Hey, I am in the AF, and I can neither deny nor confirm your claim.

All I'm going to say is the headphones in my helmet bag say "David Clark," not "Bose."

Of course, the government doesn't always issue or not issue best on how well something works!



On topic, I think anybody who complains about this is an xenophobic twit. Muslim's didn't ram planes into the WTC, terrorlst did.

[Jesda]

Is there a headphone division of the air force?

[s0m3th1ngAZ]

"They wouldn't build a German Cultural Center at Auschwitz"

Are you equating the near genocide of Jews to a couple thousand Americans dying?
If we had caught Bin Laden I don't think this kind of blatant Racism would be happening. O.k. so a small group of people attacked our country, killed thousand of people, and destroyed a national landmark...that still doesn't give us the right to persecute in any way the people of the rest of the Islamic faith who denounce such actions.
But it will continue regardless because Humans are like that.

[krimsonviper]

Its all about those Beats By Dre. Seriously you hear things in songs that you never knew was there.

Those are like aids for your ears

You're only saying this because a black man came up with it, you racist!

[TroubleBound]

One of my good friends is Islamic (Lamaas El), and i asked him how he felt about it and he agreed with me. I have no negative feelings towards Muslims i just think that this in particular seems a mockery, or as Datte said, a mark of achievement. The closest Mosque other than this is 12 blocks away, and is overcrowded, so they need a new one. I get it. But NYC has lots of places nearby where it could have been built. What is their particular reasoning for building this on Ground Zero? Its territorial. Imam Rauf seems like such a nice guy, and he needs to, so that mayor Bloomberg will allow him to construct this. The building (a retired Burlington Coat factory) already serves as an overflow Mosque, with sermons every Friday led by Rauf.
" Rauf writes, “Jews and Christians living under Muslim rule simply had to pay a tax to finance their protection by their Muslim overlords.”" Describing/referring to the city of Cordoba, and guess what the name of this new Mosque will be? Cordoba House!
He payed for the property with $4.85 million in cash which has no source or money trail.
My gay dad lives in NYC i can't wait until i get a call one day that he was murdered for being a homosexual, cause the Koran has no room for f***.
When 9/11 happened i was trying to get in touch with him, hoping he was okay. I imagine all of the people who did lose their life or family in the attack would not like to be reminded of it every time they pass the block.
Less than 2 months ago, Muslims were making death threats to the writers of an animated television show for sensitive material they were airing, couldn't they take into consideration the sensitivity of the Americans who lost their lives and their family in the attack?
Pearl Harbor was different than 9/11 or Auschwitz because it was retaliation. We f*** Hiroshima up big time. What did we do to warrant the death of 2,996 americans on 9/11? Even still, i know old folks that won't watch Nascar since they allowed Toyota in, "Jap this jap that" But retaliation is different from random terrorism IMO, and no building of a Mosque is going to bring those families back, or make them feel better when they walk by the biggest Mosque in NYC, steps from where their kin fell to 15 Saudi Arabians on a quest for Islamic supremacy.
Piss on the ashes while you're at it Imam, this is America.

[PoorManQ45]

Pearl Harbor was different than 9/11 or Auschwitz because it was retaliation. We f***** Hiroshima up big time. What did we do to warrant the death of 2,996 americans on 9/11?

Wow... Just wow...

Such an ignorant statement. Unfortunately this is not the right subsection to properly address this....

[TroubleBound]

Lol well that was a pretty worthwhile post.
I definitely don't know much about history/politics/etc., but i do know how me and a lot of New Yorkers/Americans (Muslims included) feel about this.
I know nothing will come of our disapproval, the Mosque will go up either way.
I mean with Saudi footing the bills, Bloomberg's gotta let em right?
Just raising my voice to separate myself from the Americans who like bending over in the face of humiliation/insult.

[MinisterofDOOM]

SLike the woman in this article said (http://wcbstv.com/topstories/ground.zer ... 79988.html) "They wouldn't build a German Cultural Center at Auschwitz"

What a stupid comment. Exactly the same kind of stupid as being offended by the mosque.

Nazi. Nazi. Nazi. THE WORD IS NAZI. I'm so damn sick of people blaming Nazi mistakes on Germany as a whole. Not all Germans are Nazis and not even all Nazis were German! Nazis were responsible for WWII. Not Germans. Nazis. It's so amazing to me that people in this country in this time where so many citizens disagree with a war our government is fighting can't see the difference between Nazi government and German citizens during WWII. Germans didn't cause WWII. An Austrian guy did. Oh, and the Treaty of Versailles.

And Muslims weren't responsible for the trade center destruction. A handful of extremist terrorists were.

Anyway, what I'm getting at is that this woman's amazingly broken statement has NOTHING to do with the subject at hand. A GERMAN Cultural Center wouldn't be a big deal. But a NAZI cultural center would be. But the Nazi cultural center wouldn't go down well ANYWHERE, even outside Auschwitz. And a Muslim cultural center shouldn't be a problem. It's not a "terrorlst cultural center" for hell's sake. So what's the damn issue?

[Alfador]

This isn't even close to a fair comparison, to be honest. Nazi = a strict movement of hate towards certain peoples governed by fear and ignorance. Islam = a religion with MANY different viewpoints ranging from hatemonger to peaceful and all things inbetween. If this was a mosque for a specific order of Muslims that preached hate or condoned terrorism, I would see a reason to be upset about this, but so far I see nothing that indicates that.

Also, did I seriously read someone saying that pearl harbor was retaliation for Hiroshima? I'm fairly certain that the dates are off by several years to make that a logical statement.

[numbnuts240]

meh, build it, i don't care. i'll leak digested beer on it just as readily as i would any other building.

[Encryptshun]

Pearl Harbor was different than 9/11 or Auschwitz because it was retaliation. We f***** Hiroshima up big time.

I'm sorry, but could you please clarify this? It seems like you are saying that the attack on Pearl Harbor by the Japanese was in retaliation for our bombing of Hiroshima. Is that what you are saying?

[Urabus GodofTraction]

Pearl Harbor was different than 9/11 or Auschwitz because it was retaliation. We f***** Hiroshima up big time.

I'm sorry, but could you please clarify this? It seems like you are saying that the attack on Pearl Harbor by the Japanese was in retaliation for our bombing of Hiroshima. Is that what you are saying?

I am pretty sure we just witnessed every ounce of credibility vaporize...

Nazis were responsible for WWII. Not Germans. Nazis. It's so amazing to me that people in this country in this time where so many citizens disagree with a war our government is fighting can't see the difference between Nazi government and German citizens during WWII. Germans didn't cause WWII. An Austrian guy did.

I don't entirely agree with this statement. You wouldn't say the Republicans were responsible for Desert Storm, the Democrats that shindig in the Balkans, or the Republicans OEF/OIF (oh, I'm sorry, "Operation New Dawn" CHANGE!). Well, the last one may be a poor example because there's a lot of chowderheads saying they did. The situation is of course a little different in a dictatorship, but the German people DID elect Hitler in the first place...

[Watermelonwarrior]

Pearl Harbor was different than 9/11 or Auschwitz because it was retaliation. We f***** Hiroshima up big time.

I'm sorry, but could you please clarify this? It seems like you are saying that the attack on Pearl Harbor by the Japanese was in retaliation for our bombing of Hiroshima. Is that what you are saying?

ya from that comment it seems like he has little knowledge of history.

[Dattebayo]

The kid lives on a island. What did you expect?

[TroubleBound]

Haha let me google Pearl Harbor and Hirsoshima real quick,i was quite high in school and i thought that we bombed Hiroshima and got bombed ourselves because of it. But yeah according to Wikipedia, we bombed Hiroshima/Nagasaki 4 years after Pearl Harbor.
That was kind of mean of those Japanese folk. But PH claimed 2,402 lives versus Hiroshimas/Nagasakis 150,000-240,000.

Anyways, the Japanese didnt build a religious center at Pearl Harbor and we didnt build one at Hiroshima.

Im over 9/11, i was young, people died, people were sad, yada yada yada.

But why aren't the Muslims over it? Its cool youre Islam and all but just let it go, this is America, and youre not going to convert or kill all of us. They are talking about righting what happened on 9/11, how about just dropping it and building this in a different location? Oh i bet Americans will see a bunch of Muslims praying and forget all about their dead families. It would be different if a truly peaceful Muslim was building a Mosque just because the other one was overcrowded. Imam Rauf is about walking/talking American peace and practicing Islamic Supremacy in the shadows.

I'll stop posting on the topic, and just hope that you wake up when your wives are being raped and murdered and you are paying taxes to Muslims to live in your own country.

[Urabus GodofTraction]

Oh you're a real winner!

For Mother's Day did you give your mom a card forgiving her for birthing you?

[MinisterofDOOM]

I don't entirely agree with this statement. You wouldn't say the Republicans were responsible for Desert Storm, the Democrats that shindig in the Balkans, or the Republicans OEF/OIF (oh, I'm sorry, "Operation New Dawn" CHANGE!). Well, the last one may be a poor example because there's a lot of chowderheads saying they did. The situation is of course a little different in a dictatorship, but the German people DID elect Hitler in the first place...

Yes, you're correct. I was oversimplifying to make a point. But the point still stands: Germans in general would not have led the world to WWII. It took the agenda of the Nazis to do it. Just as Muslims alone are not the problem with this mosque, the extremist subset is. Nazis don't represent all Germans, and "terrorists" (I hate that that has become a buzzword and cringe every time I use it) don't represent all Muslims. They CLAIM to, but in reality they don't. Which is why people need to learn to differentiate. Because there are good people who proudly bear the associations of Muslim or German, and those people don't deserve to be looked down upon because an extremist minority they're not a part of is making things difficult. Which holds true for everything, but as the German example had already been made I felt it was a great one to use here, too.

The German people were responsible for electing him and then giving him more and more power. And the great national powers of the world were responsible for putting the nation in a position where the German people were so desperate for anything resembling a solution to their troubles. Which is why I always put blame for WWII on the Treaty of Versailles. WWI was resolved poorly, and WWII was the price those parties paid. It was the result of a chain reaction of bad choices by many parties.

[PoorManQ45]

The controversy is ignorant.

I believe the people that are upset by this are as intelligent as TroubleBound