More colossal failure from a wannabe importer....

[AZhitman]

So I'm reading on another forum, where this guy pops in and disputes the information in our Importation article as "misinformation".

The article... is miss-guided information by NICO administrators that aren't fully involved with the importation industry. The article was written on speculation and feedback from sources rather than direct involvement which is why I have outlined the forms of importation in the post that is linked in my signature.

I do a little clicking and reading, and his site contains this:

http://www.brokerprosllc.com/page/page/5716729.htm

Which is substantially identical to what we've been saying all along. And there's nothing in there about HOW they supposedly import these cars...

Further clicking reveals this:

http://www.brokerprosllc.com/page/page/5746231.htm

AH! So, they're dismantling / reassembling? Interesting, since there's a portion of Federal law that specifically addresses this.

But, what do we know?

For those that are interested in an actual Skyline Importation FAQ or any JDM vehicle for that matter I will be posting one in this section by the end of the week.

Gee, I can hardly wait.

This is commonly what happens when consumers read guides such as this they are blinded to the opportunities that are currently available because of the lack of knowledge in "professional" articles. There is no where that I state that all vehicles in that thread or on our website have NHTSA and EPA documentation. There are 4 Federally legal vehicles listed, all R33's, which do contain NHTSA and EPA documentation.

Federally Legal: Federally legal vehicles include a DOT bond release, NHTSA and EPA approval.

There are 2 EPA legal Kit Cars from Kaizo Industries which as Charles stated are Legal R34 GTR's. They come with full documentation including Manufacturer's Statement of Origin (MSO), re-assigned 17 digit vin numbers, and new manufacture plating in the door jambs to reflect this.

Kit Car: A kit car is a 50 state EPA legal vehicle. A kit car is a remanufactured uni-body with a re-assigned 17 digit vin number. In this instance our kit cars are re-manufactured by Kaizo Industries. A Kit car contains a Manufacturer's Statement of Origin (MSO), a title referencing the new manufacture and model, and new plates in the door jambs stating that it is produced by the new manufacture as opposed to the original manufacture on the basis that it is no longer a Nissan.

Then the remainder of the vehicles are State Legal which I reflect in the thread followed by the following definition.

State Legal: A state legal vehicle is most commonly imported as parts then re-assembled when it reaches the United States. These vehicles abide by state laws but do not contain any federal documentation. The only paperwork on the vehicle is the title and proof of purchase.

Lots of doublespeak here - Basically, he's admitting that they've successfully circumvented Federal Law in all but 4 cases, and I'd be wary of those four.

[Vandrel]

There's really nothing against what they are doing. It's perfectly alright to do;

1) load vehicles that are broken down into parts, stripped, and nothing more then frames on rolling dollies

2) export the containers holding all of the parts and frames

3) upon arrival in the U.S. make a declaration that the following is being imported as "auto parts".

4) use the parts to reassemble the vehicles

5) have a RI and ICI do needed conversions to conform to standards in order to be used for road use.

6) obtain remanufactured aka "kit car" classification on the reassembled vehicles.

Broker Pros LLC appears to be the shipping company for Kaizo Unibodies. I've been aware of Kaizo Unibodies for sometime but I never really dug around to see who did their shipping.

http://www.kaizoindustries.com/uni/

Anyway, the method and process of how they are doing this is pretty straight forward. Now if they are actually doing the correct modifications to the vehicles, such as saftey bars in doors, DOT approved windshields, headlight lenses, OBD-II, etc. that's a different story but if they are then there is nothing wrong with what they are doing cause they are following the exact process of how to do a kit car.

[Tripingram]

the way they are doing it is no more illegal than say noble. The person or company that puts a motor in it and "makes" it a motor vehicle is deemed the auto manufacturer. You could put a US approved motor in it and it be 100% legit. I have a motorex 33 and would not take the risk of getting one of these cars. The risk being I would want a rb26 in there but that would make it illegal.

[AZhitman]

Gentlemen, you're playing in the wrong sandbox.

http://isearch.nhtsa.gov/files/21068.ztv.html

"A disassembled vehicle that was not certified by its original manufacturer as being in compliance with our standards is subject to the same import restrictions as an assembled one; i.e., it must have been the subject of a conformance capability determination, and be imported, reassembled, and brought into compliance by a RI, which must certify its conformance with our standards. In this event, there are two manufacturers of the vehicle, the original manufacturer whose marque name should appear on the vehicle, and the RI, which, under 49

U.S.C. 30102(a)(5), is a "manufacturer" for purposes of notification and remedy in the event that a safety-related defect or noncompliance with a Federal motor vehicle safety standard is determined to exist in the reassembled vehicle."

No matter how much you WANT something to be true, doesn't change the facts.

Keep in mind that by lipping off, in a public forum, that company just brought itself to the attention of the Feds, which is exactly what happened to the company referenced in the letter I linked above.

[AZhitman]

Another quote frmo the NHTSA Chief Counsel:

"When assembly of the vehicle is completed in the United States, its assembler must satisfy itself that it conforms to all applicable FMVSS and affix a label certifying that the vehicle complies. "

Keep in mind that this company is NOT using JK Tech, who is, as of this writing, the only company recognized by the Feds as capable of bringing a Skyline into full Federal compliance.

By definition, a Skyline is categorically impossible to classify as a "kit car", regardless of the engine / drivetrain.

[Count Zero]

It never ends, does it?

There'll always be people happy and willing to dazzle you with double-speak to convince you that "No, we really are legit...never mind those people who quote NHTSA regulations...the laws aren't really what they actually are."Let's face it, they're Used Car Salesmen, in every clichéd sense of the term.

[AZhitman]

Well, we got a little backedaling out of them:

'My message was not intended to generate a debate. It was simply my sole opinion on the matter. Broker Pros is not an importer, rather a broker to assist individuals in purchasing a jdm vehicle based on the fact that regardless of what any article may say there is still a market for the vehicles and they will be purchased. Broker Pros is looking to help those individuals to keep them from making the mistake of attempting to import the vehicle themselves and losing their investment, or purchasing from a "company" that is a shell and may not particularly exist but rather be an attempt to steal the consumers money. We simply provide information on legalities of the vehicles we have listed, financing information, regulations, and other resources in a common place for the consumer to utilize. We have nothing to gain by stipulating the legalities of the vehicles because regardless of anyone says as I stated the market as a whole is there and the consumer will purchase whether it be from Broker Pros or another company."

Now THAT I'll buy.

Basically, there's an admission that we were right all along, and they're not REALLY able to do anything that Joe Bob Container-Importer can't do.

[AZhitman]

All this talk makes me want to buy one as a DD now, dammit.

Anyone wanna buy a 2003 G35 Coupe 6MT?

[Count Zero]

Every time I look at my bank account, I get tempted to sell mine.

Then I go out and look at it, and go "What the hell am I thinking?"

(sorry):D

[themadscientist]

All "kit cars" come with a trunkload of assorted quality products.

[Mr. Opportunist]

I don't know it seems as if you are misleading yourself in to thinking that they are another importer. To me it seems as if they are a broker as it states in their company name rather than a physical importer. You have been quoting their EvoM threads so I will do the same.

I would like to introduce Broker Pros LLC as EvoM's latest vendor. Broker Pros LLC is an automotive brokerage firm based out of California with representatives nation wide. We specialize in landed JDM Vehicles which provides you with the exclusivity of a JDM Vehicle with out the risk of importation. Broker Pros LLC brokers vehicles, therefore we do not maintain a physical inventory. This allows us to offer you a vast range of vehicles including but not limited to State, Federal, and EPA Legal vehicles.

Source: http://forums.evolutionm.net/s...34070

[themadscientist]

It's like saying, "hey, I just tell you who to get the drugs from, I don't grow it or ship it". More smoke and mirrors. By doing this sort of activity you facilitate illegal practices, same same in my book.

[dj_hype]

Can this debate just end? It works. Its illegal. People don't care. End of discussion. I know plenty of people who have these cars and they got them all in the same matter. The know it's illegal. They don't care.

Both sides should just let it go. ****.

[EL MAMITO USMC]

Can this debate just end? Both sides should just let it go. ****.

this is the best post that has been posted here... learn it and take it to heart

[themadscientist]

when shady types continue to try to pull the wool over the eyes of potential customers with ambiguous language and psudoinfo it must remain at the forefront of discussion.

[dj_hype]

when shady types continue to try to pull the wool over the eyes of potential customers with ambiguous language and psudoinfo it must remain at the forefront of discussion.

When I use correct grammar and big words, I too sound like a super hero.

I'm just tired of seeing posts and discussions like this. The article on the front page does a great job of explaining the risks involved. Yet people still continue to purchase these vehicles. The car has been raved on by the community for years and it's going to be extremely hard to make the car fall out of popularity. Until the demand is gone, there will still be people importing the vehicles and registering them and calling them "legal." They're not legal, they're registered. And people still don't care. Fancy words and super hero language doesn't matter to them. I honestly thought my car was 100% legal the way it was done. Now that I know better, do I care? No. Do I feel cheated? No. And thats how other people feel too. So I say let the article do its job and everyone stop discussing (at least here) this matter completely. If some douchebag is on another forum disputing the article, then do it on that forum. I know I am tired of this, and I'm sure pretty much everyone else is too.

[themadscientist]

Sorry if my do gooder language offends you let me put it small common words so you can feel involved.

I will keep stepping down sneaky ****s who try to take advantage of dumb ****s and if you don't like it too god-damned bad. Don't want to read about it, move the hell on and don't feel the need to comment.

Just because you got screwed and liked it doesn't mean others will. It's for them I do these things NOT YOU. Your opinion and sandy clit whining are not on my radar so go away.

[dj_hype]

Sorry if my do gooder language offends you let me put it small common words so you can feel involved.

I will keep stepping down sneaky ****s who try to take advantage of dumb ****s and if you don't like it too god-damned bad. Don't want to read about it, move the hell on and don't feel the need to comment.

Just because you got screwed and liked it doesn't mean others will. It's for them I do these things NOT YOU. Your opinion and sandy clit whining are not on my radar so go away.

Wow man. Someone needs a tampon. And a reading lesson. I never asked you to dumb it down for me. I never said I got screwed. In fact, I got a really good deal on my car.

All I was trying to do was move this portion of the community forward by saying that one out of every three threads doesn't need to be about some chochski importer and how butt hurt you are about someone making money. But its a futile effort obviously. If I want real discussion about Skylines, guess I'll take your advice and go somewhere else. If I want to listen to some self-righteous do gooder, I'll come back.

[audtatious]

Jesus......

Greg and I wrote the article so that people can be informed of the facts and can make a knowledgable decision as to their purchase. What I don't understand is why that is so bad? Neither of us really care if someone has a gray market vehicle in the least. We do care if we are accused of posting false information and we will continue making sure people are aware.

If the importer community can't handle that then that's their problem, not ours.

[themadscientist]

Wow man. Someone needs a tampon. And a reading lesson. I never asked you to dumb it down for me. I never said I got screwed. In fact, I got a really good deal on my car.

All I was trying to do was move this portion of the community forward by saying that one out of every three threads doesn't need to be about some chochski importer and how butt hurt you are about someone making money. But its a futile effort obviously. If I want real discussion about Skylines, guess I'll take your advice and go somewhere else. If I want to listen to some self-righteous do gooder, I'll come back.

bye

let me leave you with food for thought on your way out though. If I am trying to do good and you disagree, what are you trying to do?

[dj_hype]

I don't disagree with you trying to do good. In my opinion, I think you guys have done a really good job. The article was a really good read and should clear up any questions people have. Sure people on other forums are going to debate the article, and thats fine. Make your case on the other forums. They're the ones that need convincing. Not us. We've already heard it a hundred times. I'd rather see valid discussion about the car here instead of people pissing and moaning about these guys and how they get the cars over and what they say to make it seem more legit.

Most of the guys here seem cool with people who have gray market cars, except you. See the post above yours for proof. Whats your deal though?

[themadscientist]

I understand your frustration, really I do but so many sources out there though are trying to misrepresent what they do. Somebody has to make sure they are consistently and relentlessly challenged.

You misunderstand the true flavor of my distaste for grey market cars. It's not the cars themselves but rather the snake oil salesmen that peddle them that i have a problem with. I don't care about the feds, they can kiss it, I do care about fellow Nissan enthusiasts who could be harmed by the feds though.

You are happy with your grey market car and I personaly would likely find a way to sneak mine in if I had to go back to the states. I have no problem with a person buying one fully cognizant of all that comes with it. I do have a huge problem with unscrupulous "importers" who doubletalk and leave uninformed buyers with a less than legal vehicle.

[dj_hype]

I understand how you feel. Some of these guys are no better than insurance companies but there are some people out there who are honest as to the risks that you run with buying these cars and such. But thats neither here nor there. I just figured that there was enough information on this topic floating around the largest Nissan forum out there that we could move this section of the website forward and start discussing the car itself and stop with the "legalization" debates.

Like I said before, I'm sure there are those out there who are going to battle down the article and such but I'd like to see those conversations, if they were started on another forum, stay on that forum. If it's brought up here, fine, we deal with it and move on. But I'm sure everyone who reads the Skyline/GTR section is tired of these stupid debate threads. And on that note, I'm going to stop beating this dead horse and move on.

And TMS, no harm no foul...we cool?

[themadscientist]

We always cool baby.

[AZhitman]

dj - I wish we had hit you up for more info when we did the article.

I'll not add to another forum's popularity by engaging in a pissing contest there.

Simply stated, this is an issue that warrants discussion, and it warrants discussion on the site most likely to be seen by a prospective purchaser.

I think we accomplished our goal - We cleared the air, got the "broker" to clarify their modus operandi, and hopefully educated / entertained along the way.

Last thing we want is for someone like yourself, who knows the drill, to be put off by it. You got yours, but I know for sure if you were offering advice to some n00b that you'd do the same as we're doing (you probably get questions all the time, I'm sure).

In other news, TMS is off his meds again.

BACK IN THE CAGE, Mike!

[dj_hype]

lol.

as far as info from me, I don't really think there's a whole lot I could have added. but if you ever plan to do an update, hit me up. I'll gladly answer any questions you got.

And Greg, I want you to know that this really wasn't aimed at you. It's just it seems everytime I make an appearance in the GTR forum, it's always the same old, same old lol. But hey, I guess I'll hang in there and see if we can't squash this discussion once and for all eh?

[themadscientist]

any ideas for content in here?

[dj_hype]

Chassis specific stuff. Engine/Wiring stuff is over in the RB section. List of US (or North American) based parts suppliers. Reviews of parts. Suspension setups. Whats hawt for our JDM cars from JDM land. Install write-ups. Good pics/videos. Exterior/Interior mods. I'm not exactly sure. But I'd rather that stuff than beating the dead horse that is the legal vs. registered discussion.

But, how about a sticky of totally crap guys that just rip people off and people who deal with gray market cars and at least won't rip you off? Maybe that could clear up some of this stuff. Who knows...

[audtatious]

All we need are contributors and we can triple-document the stuff on this forum, nissan-tech and GTRclub.

As far as the article, if you have any additional detail that you think should be added then let me know what/where. The article is somewhat a "living document" as I can tweak it at will.

[drifttuners]

I recently was in contact with someone from Kaizo, they asked why I have there link on our website as a scam along with Official JDM. I told him that I have been working with the State Attorney General’s Office about their business activities along with others and that Official JDM is under investigation with our help.

Official JDM's website/business is now closed. What Kaizo are doing in terms of importing shells/parts is fine however the reassembly process and branding then as a kit is illegal. Claiming to remanufacture these JDM cars is nothing but words used to mislead there readers/customers.

You can't have a kit car where the shell or any other major components were originally manufactured by an auto manufacture in this case Nissan etc.. There simply reassembling already manufactured Nissan parts, there not making their own parts like the shell, fenders, frame etc…

Kit cars have to be made of sheet metal and fiberglass components to qualify as a kit. The fact of the matter is the cars are manufactured by an auto manufacture not a kit manufacture therefore is not a kit but simply manufactured auto parts from Nissan.

Hmmm I wonder if I buy a salvage car and rebuild it up again that I can call it a kit car instead of salvaged car therefore by passing the bad branded title to make read as a kit?? Don’t think so.

Anyways Kaizo’s website and business are being shut down soon based on information provided to the State Attorney General’s office along with our customer’s case of being scammed and out more money than I like to say...
Modified by drifttuners at 1:40 PM 12/8/2008