More apologist crap.

[IBCoupe]

I can't sit here and act like I support dismantling public policy... in order to counter something as nebulous as a "bad rap".

And I can't see a reason to pursue an irrelevant public policy (in that it, again, won't make a damned bit of difference) at the risk of causing a public backlash against innocent citizens.

I've heard that there's actually a whole other half (or more) of the world that's very understanding and accepting of Islam.

What's more is that this country, given our laws and our founding principles, should be leading that other half.

[heliochrome85]

I can't sit here and act like I support dismantling public policy... in order to counter something as nebulous as a "bad rap".

And I can't see a reason to pursue an irrelevant public policy (in that it, again, won't make a damned bit of difference) at the risk of causing a public backlash against innocent citizens.

I've heard that there's actually a whole other half (or more) of the world that's very understanding and accepting of Islam.

What's more is that this country, given our laws and our founding principles, should be leading that other half.

i wish more people had the courage to openly debate the way you guys do. the country would be much better off.

[IBCoupe]

Tell you what, Greg, I'll pass the bar in AZ and I'll practice law there, and then you and I can run against each other for public office.

[AZhitman]

Grrrreat. The lawyer against the car forum owner. Let's see, how's that gonna play in Peoria?

As soon as I label you a closet Muslim, you're done.

[heliochrome85]

Tell you what, Greg, I'll pass the bar in AZ and I'll practice law there, and then you and I can run against each other for public office.

[IBCoupe]

Eastern European Jew with a tan? Yeah, I'd pass for Arab. I'll even run under my Hebrew name, for you: Itzak ben-Mikhael.

[AZhitman]

EXHIBIT A: ^See the affiliation?

"I'd like to thank my supporters, and my esteemed opponent, whose name eludes me..."

[AZhitman]

The scary part is, you'd have an easier time tossing me under THAT bus: 1st-gen American, half Armenian.

:

[heliochrome85]

im enjoying this thread.

[AZhitman]

Eastern European Jew with a tan? Yeah, I'd pass for Arab. I'll even run under my Hebrew name, for you: Itzak ben-Mikhael.

I can haz Hebroo name? Need it for pissin' off teh moozlimz. KTHXBAI.

[IBCoupe]

Hey, you're half-Armenian, I'm half-Jewish; together we get a whole genocide!

I dub thee Gid'on ben-Nico.

Gideon, Son of NICO was the closest thing I could come up with to Greg, Creator of NICO.

[stebo0728]

Hey, you're half-Armenian, I'm half-Jewish; together we get a whole genocide!

I dub thee Gid'on ben-Nico.

Gideon, Son of NICO was the closest thing I could come up with to Greg, Creator of NICO.

Are you going to touch his hip next?

[IBCoupe]

I don't swing that way.

[stebo0728]

I don't swing that way.

I was of course aluding to the angel who touched the hip of Jacob. Cant remember now if it was before or after he was renamed Israel.

[IBCoupe]

I think my inference was better.

[stebo0728]

Really? I thought you didnt swing that way

[IBCoupe]

From a comedic standpoint.

[stebo0728]

Ok Ok, duely noted.

[heliochrome85]

jews are funny.

[WDRacing]

Right, but if you're going to get stung either way, an effort to get away makes more sense than an effort to destroy the swarm.

Not if destroying the swarm keeps your friends and family from stumbling on the nest at a later time. OR from the swarm spreading out until it's everywhere. Elimination of a threat is ALWAYS on the table.

BTW, I don't know why you play devils advocate or whatever so often. Sometimes, like this one, I think you do it for attention. The act was terrorism and the person is subject to the UCMJ. Those are facts. He could and should be put to death. Anything else is minimizing.

Your attempts at making others see another alternative come off as extremely naive. Like a law student that's 24 or something. Get some life experience before you preach about how others should think and feel. Things don't get solved with flowers and rainbows kid. Never have, never will. Sounds nice though...why don't we all just get along. To bad it's never going to happen...ever. Billion years of proof, man doesn't get along.

The traitor in question needs to be slowly lowered into a wood chipper.

[stebo0728]

BTW, I don't know why you play devils advocate or whatever so often. Sometimes, like this one, I think you do it for attention. The act was terrorism and the person is subject to the UCMJ. Those are facts. He could and should be put to death. Anything else is minimizing.

Hes not the devils advocate, hes the devils lawyer

[AZhitman]

+1 on the wood chipper.

[IBCoupe]

Not if destroying the swarm keeps your friends and family from stumbling on the nest at a later time. OR from the swarm spreading out until it's everywhere. Elimination of a threat is ALWAYS on the table.

On the table but perhaps out of reach. Just because something's theoretically possible doesn't mean that it's got a high probability of success or is worth the attempt.

Again, we probably should stop trying to wage wars on ideas and military tactics.

BTW, I don't know why you play devils advocate or whatever so often. Sometimes, like this one, I think you do it for attention...

Your attempts at making others see another alternative come off as extremely naive. Like a law student that's 24 or something. Get some life experience before you preach about how others should think and feel. Things don't get solved with flowers and rainbows kid. Never have, never will. Sounds nice though...why don't we all just get along. To bad it's never going to happen...ever. Billion years of proof, man doesn't get along.

The traitor in question needs to be slowly lowered into a wood chipper.

Cry about it. If you can't come up with a logical response, don't try to respond at all. I'm not going to beat you up about it, and I'm not going to think less of you. If you don't like what I write, don't read it.

If it helps, don't think that I'm playing devil's advocate. Presume that I absolutely believe it to be true. If that lets you get past your ridiculous annoyance, do it.

But whatever you decide to do, stop crying to me about it and stop trying to insult me over an internet debate. I will beat you up about that, and I will think less of you. Stop being such a baby.

The act was terrorism and the person is subject to the UCMJ. Those are facts. He could and should be put to death. Anything else is minimizing.

Not familiar with the entirety of the UCMJ, or its treatment of "terrorism," but I do know Hasan has been charged under Article 118 - murder. Wikipedia reveals that he's been charged with 32 counts of attempted murder and 13 counts of premeditated murder. There's no indication that there's any terrorism-related charge.

Also according to wikipedia, if the investigation revealed that he was part of a terrorlst plot (which it didn't - see my link for Greg below), he could face charges for it, but his case would be moved to federal court, instead of a military court.

So not only have you cried about me playing devil's advocate, you completely missed the point of what I was saying, proving that you're retarded, illiterate or that I'm not being clear enough in my arguments. I'm tired of your s***, WD; this isn't the first time you've whined about me disagreeing with you.


And, Greg, I found this through Wikipedia: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33777070/ns ... fort_hood/. Federal investigators said he acted solo.

[WDRacing]

You can be tired of me all you want...lol. My posts balance out your left wing Liberal propaganda posts.

Sorry about pointing out that you're young and have no real life experience.

[IBCoupe]

Look, if I'm wrong, say how. Stop making excuses for your inability to counter my points. It doesn't matter if I'm liberal. It doesn't matter if I'm young. It doesn't matter if I'm actually a sentient three-legged dog who's a key member in a plot to take over Austin, Texas.

What matters is what I put in front of you. Stop being a douchebag, and start responding to what's written.

[heliochrome85]

Look, if I'm wrong, say how. Stop making excuses for your inability to counter my points. It doesn't matter if I'm liberal. It doesn't matter if I'm young. It doesn't matter if I'm actually a sentient three-legged dog who's a key member in a plot to take over Austin, Texas.

What matters is what I put in front of you. Stop being a douchebag, and start responding to what's written.

IB it probably doesnt help your cause to lobby personal attacks. I totally understand your frustration, but when dealing with irrational people, being irrational yourself doesnt win the argument. just makes them more shrill.

[WDRacing]

Look, if I'm wrong, say how. Stop making excuses for your inability to counter my points. It doesn't matter if I'm liberal. It doesn't matter if I'm young. It doesn't matter if I'm actually a sentient three-legged dog who's a key member in a plot to take over Austin, Texas.

What matters is what I put in front of you. Stop being a douchebag, and start responding to what's written.

What didn't I counter? Why do I HAVE to counter anything? I'm giving my opinion on a conversation. He's a terrorlst and should be put to death for his crimes. Under the UCMJ he could easily be given the death sentence.

What is it that you'd like me to explain better? Are you just upset because I called you out because our views conflict on how this person should be dealt with? If you're bent because I said you post just to get attention, I apologize, we both know that's not true. I don't like to edit things once I've said them or I would remove that.

IB it probably doesnt help your cause to lobby personal attacks. I totally understand your frustration, but when dealing with irrational people, being irrational yourself doesnt win the argument. just makes them more shrill.

This is very true, even if I'm the irrational person in this case. Stooping to my level is probably what I was trying to get you to do in the first place

The thing about rational and irrational is point of view though. Wanting to have a traitor executed certainly doesn't make me irrational, it just means I don't have any qualms about holding someone fully accountable for their actions and for me the death penalty is on the table as an option.

Anything else I should elaborate on?

[heliochrome85]

i personally have no issue with him being put before a firing squad. the point was one i learned when dealing with some of the former members of this forum, back when i was more active on Nico. Not specifically you, or anyone else. Just never a good idea to start name calling, because it cheapens your argument.

[WDRacing]

Totally, I am prone to over reaction and often have to edit out complete paragraphs. Sometimes I don't edit enough and come off like the person you probably think I am. Real bummer to be honest. I'm not a bad guy and I definitely don't follow along with any party lines. I may like the Tea Party, but only because they stand, or stood at this point, for change I could agree with. First and foremost the removal of all incumbents, on both sides. The very best the current Libs and GOP have to offer has gotten us right where we are. Sadly there isn't anyone else I can get behind.

[heliochrome85]

Totally, I am prone to over reaction and often have to edit out complete paragraphs. Sometimes I don't edit enough and come off like the person you probably think I am. Real bummer to be honest. I'm not a bad guy and I definitely don't follow along with any party lines. I may like the Tea Party, but only because they stand, or stood at this point, for change I could agree with. First and foremost the removal of all incumbents, on both sides. The very best the current Libs and GOP have to offer has gotten us right where we are. Sadly there isn't anyone else I can get behind.

i understand the sentiment, trust me, I DO.

That being said, given the choice, I currently have no choice than to vote for the Democrats because as a party on the whole, they do not use my nationality, my ethnicity, and my neighbors skepticism about me, as a fundraising point. They may be some of the least effectual politicians, but they dont demonize me. The reality is that the rancor as espoused by the GOP has turned all debate in this country into a fight. When was the last time you heard of actual bi-partisan support of a bill rather than strict obstructionalism? I may not know how to fix the situation, but i know that the tea party isnt for me because it really isnt as simple as throwing everyone out of office. The US has changed on a fundamental level. If we want to really see change in our government, we have to change at home first. Once you cut off the talking heads funding by our endless feigned outrage (on both sides), there is ultimately, no reason for said organizations to further divide us.

Mob mentality never works. The Constitution prevents against the voices of the many taking away the rights of the few. Otherwise, this country would look vastly different.