More Actsus Conversion Questions
More Actsus Conversion Questions
Reading from the few sources of information available, I have a few more questions about an active suspension conversion. The books speak of removing the TCS pump and some parking lights for removal of some of the components. Is this necessary? Since most of the parts coming off will not go back on is it possible that room has been made by the removal of some of the other components so as not having to do this.
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elwesso
- Posts: 30810
- Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2003 4:52 pm
- Car: 94 Infiniti Q45t 5 spd
2007 BMW M Coupe
2007 Infiniti G35 S 6MT - Location: Indiana
- Contact:
I dont know for sure, but PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE DO NOT CONVERT YOUR ACTIVE Q45!
They are so rare, so equisite... OMG you cant, your taking out a system that is more sophisticated than aynthing in its day, and MFGs are JUST NOW (read MB s600) getting to something equal to it.....
For not much more money you can have the best suspension system in the world..... After labor to make the system run really good and close to new its gotta be close.....
They are so rare, so equisite... OMG you cant, your taking out a system that is more sophisticated than aynthing in its day, and MFGs are JUST NOW (read MB s600) getting to something equal to it.....
For not much more money you can have the best suspension system in the world..... After labor to make the system run really good and close to new its gotta be close.....
Thanks for the...advice. I think your "not much" may be much different than my "not much". The dealer quote was around 8K and from what I learned from talking to them, once again, they didn't know "much". As I had said in an earlier post on some other thread, I am just a survivalist trying to recoupe a little useage from a car thats worth about what it would cost to fix. Actually, a shot 'A' isn't even worth 8K on the open market. Awesome car otherwise. Just not interested in the automotive equivilant of a "hard tail"
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elwesso
- Posts: 30810
- Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2003 4:52 pm
- Car: 94 Infiniti Q45t 5 spd
2007 BMW M Coupe
2007 Infiniti G35 S 6MT - Location: Indiana
- Contact:
LOL!!!
Think of it this way... If you have no struts that are leaking and the basic system still quasi works now your in good shape...
Accumulators are $100 each.. So say you want 4 accumulators recharged (the other 5 arent as necessary), then add in another $50 to get the fluid changed right... From there you have the upper links at $100 each, and the tension rod bushings at $30 each, and sway bar bushings and other assorted stuff may add up to $50......
So (400+200+50+200+30+50)= $930, and you can even skip on the bushings until later...
I might suggest you get rid of your A car and find a non A model to go from... My Q is prospectively for sale
I just CRINGE to the thought of a wonderful masterpiece of the Q45a being converted to boring suspenions...
Think of it this way... If you have no struts that are leaking and the basic system still quasi works now your in good shape...
Accumulators are $100 each.. So say you want 4 accumulators recharged (the other 5 arent as necessary), then add in another $50 to get the fluid changed right... From there you have the upper links at $100 each, and the tension rod bushings at $30 each, and sway bar bushings and other assorted stuff may add up to $50......
So (400+200+50+200+30+50)= $930, and you can even skip on the bushings until later...
I might suggest you get rid of your A car and find a non A model to go from... My Q is prospectively for sale
I just CRINGE to the thought of a wonderful masterpiece of the Q45a being converted to boring suspenions...
Damn the expense. You have AND WILL ALWAYS have one of the most advanced suspensions EVER put on a road going vehicle
Banned From Formula 1. Banned from cars.
Nothing beats knowing a computer is constantly thinking about keeping the cars body at balance, no matter what condition
Keep the car balanced, it will do what you want. Balance=control
Power=nothing without control
Banned From Formula 1. Banned from cars.
Nothing beats knowing a computer is constantly thinking about keeping the cars body at balance, no matter what condition
Keep the car balanced, it will do what you want. Balance=control
Power=nothing without control
The truth of the matter is that actives aren't headaches because of the cost; that is only a small factor. They're headaches because no one understands how it works, what it does or how to properly repair it. No one understands the value of the system... the cost is little over what a regular suspension setup would cost if you go through texasoil.
dgeorge_c, I too have an active Q and it is a headache. If it was my daily driver I doubt I'd put up with it either, but if you can I know it'll be worth it. Being able to raise and lower your car at the flip of a switch is something normally held to airbags... $2500 for your average install. Being able to drive a car that doesn't dive when you brake or roll in corners... well, I'm not sure if you can even put a price tag on that seeing as though it only comes on $100k+ cars nowadays. The only downside to the system is it supposedly makes you feel distant from the road. On that note, I'll get back to you once my headaches are over!
Corey
dgeorge_c, I too have an active Q and it is a headache. If it was my daily driver I doubt I'd put up with it either, but if you can I know it'll be worth it. Being able to raise and lower your car at the flip of a switch is something normally held to airbags... $2500 for your average install. Being able to drive a car that doesn't dive when you brake or roll in corners... well, I'm not sure if you can even put a price tag on that seeing as though it only comes on $100k+ cars nowadays. The only downside to the system is it supposedly makes you feel distant from the road. On that note, I'll get back to you once my headaches are over!
Corey
I suppose a great deal of it depends on your driving style. I'm always going in a straight line on the interstate, so suspension upgrades would only degrade my Q's ability to mask crappy pavement.
I've never driven one, but I have seen photos of a Q taking a corner, and the active suspension seems to work wonders for body control.
Mercedes-Benz's new ABC system (A $3500-$4,000 option on the S-class) is still a buggy pile of junk. But when it works, it works very well. Infiniti was ahead of everyone!
-Jesda
I've never driven one, but I have seen photos of a Q taking a corner, and the active suspension seems to work wonders for body control.
Mercedes-Benz's new ABC system (A $3500-$4,000 option on the S-class) is still a buggy pile of junk. But when it works, it works very well. Infiniti was ahead of everyone!
-Jesda
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elwesso
- Posts: 30810
- Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2003 4:52 pm
- Car: 94 Infiniti Q45t 5 spd
2007 BMW M Coupe
2007 Infiniti G35 S 6MT - Location: Indiana
- Contact:
While all of these points are VALID, I still dont agree with any points on conversion, and never will.....
If you think about it, the actual replacement of stuff is easy.. Accumulators, struts and the ususal suspension rubber, no big deal. Who cares if no one knows how it works, its the owners repsonsibility to sleep with the FSM under their pillow!!! You are responsible to know how the system works and if you dont do any labor, to tell the people EXACTLY what they are to do..... I do this ALL the time with my Q when I send it in for a job I dont want to do or Im too lazy.... You can NEVER take in an active Q45 to a shop (T3 and Jerry Tucker aside) and say "fix this"... They wont have a dang CLUE what to do...
RE that it makes you feel distant from the road, that may be the case, but now that we have the active controllers that should really make it shine......
With NICO, texasoil, I have FSMs, and all the other knowledge out there, I see NO GOOD REASON TO CONVERT AN ACTIVE Q45! The costs are FAR less than the benefits.....
Look at it this way, when the MB S600 with ABC are 10 years old (if they even make it that far), you WILL NOT be able to rehab the suspension for under $1000, even $2000 to deal with inflation... WONT happen I will bet my golf clubs on it...
If you think about it, the actual replacement of stuff is easy.. Accumulators, struts and the ususal suspension rubber, no big deal. Who cares if no one knows how it works, its the owners repsonsibility to sleep with the FSM under their pillow!!! You are responsible to know how the system works and if you dont do any labor, to tell the people EXACTLY what they are to do..... I do this ALL the time with my Q when I send it in for a job I dont want to do or Im too lazy.... You can NEVER take in an active Q45 to a shop (T3 and Jerry Tucker aside) and say "fix this"... They wont have a dang CLUE what to do...
RE that it makes you feel distant from the road, that may be the case, but now that we have the active controllers that should really make it shine......
With NICO, texasoil, I have FSMs, and all the other knowledge out there, I see NO GOOD REASON TO CONVERT AN ACTIVE Q45! The costs are FAR less than the benefits.....
Look at it this way, when the MB S600 with ABC are 10 years old (if they even make it that far), you WILL NOT be able to rehab the suspension for under $1000, even $2000 to deal with inflation... WONT happen I will bet my golf clubs on it...
The active suspension is an all around system.
It will absorb bumps better, and maintani body control better.
Dig through the archive and look at the toyota soarer equiped with an active suspension on the track. There is a pic with one with the active suspension vs one with an air suspension. The difference is plain to see
From a review of an A
"most of the goodness comes from the Q45a active suspension, which insulates, not isolates. You can feel the wheels sensously following the road as if the Q car had the terrain-reading radar of a stealth fighter."
Sorry the choice is clear. If you didn't notice the difference, your either not a hard driver, or your system wasn't up to par.
It will absorb bumps better, and maintani body control better.
Dig through the archive and look at the toyota soarer equiped with an active suspension on the track. There is a pic with one with the active suspension vs one with an air suspension. The difference is plain to see
From a review of an A
"most of the goodness comes from the Q45a active suspension, which insulates, not isolates. You can feel the wheels sensously following the road as if the Q car had the terrain-reading radar of a stealth fighter."
Sorry the choice is clear. If you didn't notice the difference, your either not a hard driver, or your system wasn't up to par.
The suspension DOESN'T ISOLATE, IT INSULATES.
Ask texasoil he has two As.
Sorry, but saying it somehow takes the fun out of driving, is ignorance.
The active suspension was an all around system. It was designed to absord the road, AND maintain the body. Unlike air suspensions or other semi active suspensions, it WAS NOT designed solely to handle bumps better. It is a complete suspension. The only suspension that can address ride issues, and body control.
There is a reason Mercedes uses it on their most exotic vehicles. There is a reason Toyota and Nissan put it on their most high profile vehicles, at the HEIGHT of the Japanese bubble.
There is a reason it was banned from formula 1.
There is a reason companies are finally going back to the design. There is a reason LOTUS still believes it's the most advanced concept of a vehicles suspension.
Ask texasoil he has two As.
Sorry, but saying it somehow takes the fun out of driving, is ignorance.
The active suspension was an all around system. It was designed to absord the road, AND maintain the body. Unlike air suspensions or other semi active suspensions, it WAS NOT designed solely to handle bumps better. It is a complete suspension. The only suspension that can address ride issues, and body control.
There is a reason Mercedes uses it on their most exotic vehicles. There is a reason Toyota and Nissan put it on their most high profile vehicles, at the HEIGHT of the Japanese bubble.
There is a reason it was banned from formula 1.
There is a reason companies are finally going back to the design. There is a reason LOTUS still believes it's the most advanced concept of a vehicles suspension.
Nissan states that driving fun and comfort are two of its main engineering goals. Unfortunately, where suspension is concerned they are opposing qualities -- what enhances one (firm, responsive handling) detracts from the other (soft, smooth ride). Suspension has always been a compromise because springs, stabilizer bars, and shocks are, well, dumb. But add computers, a 15 liter-per-minute oil pump, pressure control valves, accumulators, an actuator for each wheel, sensors for speed, G's, and height and you get an integrated system that responds somewhat like a living organism.
Roll, pitch, bounce and vehicle height are the four dynamics the system controls. The center of gravity gains inertia in a curve, which results in roll. The lateral G sensors detect this inertia, and transmit signals to the computer, which in turn sends a command that increases the control pressure to the actuators of the outside wheels. This is also tailored front and rear so that over- or under-steer can be achieved as the programmer sees fit.
Pitch is the fore and aft movement of nose dive and rear-end squat. The control unit increases front actuator pressure in the former case, and rear actuator pressure in the latter.
The "skyhook damper" strategy is what handles bounce. When a bump slams a tire toward the chassis, the sensors and computers work together to instantly decrease pressure in that actuator, which reduces the shock transmitted to the car. If a tire encounters a dip, actuator pressure is increased, which pushes the wheel down and keeps the body level.
I will say AGAIN. It is a SALUTE to the standard Q45 suspension that most people couldn't tell the difference. It's also a salute too lazy american drivers who never go over 60 either. Put the car through it's paces, you're going to notice a difference.
Everyone who hates on the active suspension show up At houston. I'll show you first hand.
Roll, pitch, bounce and vehicle height are the four dynamics the system controls. The center of gravity gains inertia in a curve, which results in roll. The lateral G sensors detect this inertia, and transmit signals to the computer, which in turn sends a command that increases the control pressure to the actuators of the outside wheels. This is also tailored front and rear so that over- or under-steer can be achieved as the programmer sees fit.
Pitch is the fore and aft movement of nose dive and rear-end squat. The control unit increases front actuator pressure in the former case, and rear actuator pressure in the latter.
The "skyhook damper" strategy is what handles bounce. When a bump slams a tire toward the chassis, the sensors and computers work together to instantly decrease pressure in that actuator, which reduces the shock transmitted to the car. If a tire encounters a dip, actuator pressure is increased, which pushes the wheel down and keeps the body level.
I will say AGAIN. It is a SALUTE to the standard Q45 suspension that most people couldn't tell the difference. It's also a salute too lazy american drivers who never go over 60 either. Put the car through it's paces, you're going to notice a difference.
Everyone who hates on the active suspension show up At houston. I'll show you first hand.
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maxnix
- Posts: 22627
- Joined: Mon Jul 22, 2002 8:11 pm
- Car: 1995 Infiniti Q45
1995 Infiniti Q45t
2000 Infiniti Q45
We had to destroy the Q45a to save it, sir.
Survivalist and Q45a just do not go together. Must be like a moth's attraction to a flame. Such a pity since there are so many more non-a models out there.dgeorge_c wrote:As I had said in an earlier post on some other thread, I am just a survivalist trying to recoupe a little useage from a car thats worth about what it would cost to fix.
Why would a "survivalist" want a Q in the first place? Seems like a TDi would be more appropriate.
Has hell frozen over?
Cause Max and I are in total agreement, and this isn't the first time
Seriously avoid the A like a plague, if you don't appreciate it.
Too me, it's like owning a piece of automotive history.
Seriously, don't go anywhere near it, if you don't think you will appreciate it.
Ask yourself this:
If you had a real gorgeous girlfriend, but was 100% high maintenance, would it be worth it to you? Use that answer and apply it to the A.
Max is also right though. You probably shouldn't own a Q at all.
Cause Max and I are in total agreement, and this isn't the first time
Seriously avoid the A like a plague, if you don't appreciate it.
Too me, it's like owning a piece of automotive history.
Seriously, don't go anywhere near it, if you don't think you will appreciate it.
Ask yourself this:
If you had a real gorgeous girlfriend, but was 100% high maintenance, would it be worth it to you? Use that answer and apply it to the A.
Max is also right though. You probably shouldn't own a Q at all.
So, as I was saying:
Reading from the few sources of information available, I have a few more questions about an active suspension conversion. The books speak of removing the TCS pump and some parking lights for removal of some of the components. Is this necessary? Since most of the parts coming off will not go back on is it possible that room has been made by the removal of some of the other components so as not having to do this.
Reading from the few sources of information available, I have a few more questions about an active suspension conversion. The books speak of removing the TCS pump and some parking lights for removal of some of the components. Is this necessary? Since most of the parts coming off will not go back on is it possible that room has been made by the removal of some of the other components so as not having to do this.
Just out of curiosity, what do you think a Q45a with a sick actsus would fetch on the open market. Unless you are parting it out, it is very low. Much lower that the price to put it right, active wise, which leads one to the conversion. The bad thing is, even if you invest the 3G's +- to put it right, theres no guarantee it will be.
By the way....what is a TDi?
By the way....what is a TDi?
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maxnix
- Posts: 22627
- Joined: Mon Jul 22, 2002 8:11 pm
- Car: 1995 Infiniti Q45
1995 Infiniti Q45t
2000 Infiniti Q45
Q45a Conversion sources.
Nope, just a better choice for your avowed purposes and situation than a Q45a that you are trying to convert. A lot less expense and no need to convert.dgeorge_c wrote:I guess thats suppose to be a dis. Goodonya.
Why don't you PM (Ooooops! Can't do that, not allowed! Wouldn't be prudent! Try email!) DrQ (Stephen) as he did it last, aaacomp (Glenn) as he does it for hire (he hangs at http://www.inifinitihelp.com) or sopdapope(sp?) who did it for hire before he got blown by an STX and doesn't hang here mcuh anymore.
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maxnix
- Posts: 22627
- Joined: Mon Jul 22, 2002 8:11 pm
- Car: 1995 Infiniti Q45
1995 Infiniti Q45t
2000 Infiniti Q45
Never a lemming be...
Nope, I am very happy Fred.PalmerWMD wrote:Never mind Maxnix he is our resident grouch.
I am just not afraid to tell it like it is and don't shy away from the truth to be in with the homeys. I prefer honesty to pallatives anyday.Hopalong Cassidy, the Lone Ranger, Davey Crockett and Zorro nvere nedded possees, so I gave them up after I was six.
