Merci Beaucoup, Obamallamas.

[WDRacing]

A few thousand years ago everyone learned Latin (and look at how well that worked)...things in the world change

Dude...we all know things change. But our language is English...if you want to come to America to prosper then you need to do your best to learn it. We do not need to learn another language so that others may prosper.

I'm not even against learning another language, I'm against people who seem to think I NEED to speak something other then English.

English is the most spoken language in the world...success = speak it.

Come here legally and I'll support any program we can come up with to include FREE English lessons for those willing to learn. I'm all for helping my fellow man, but I'm NOT going to agree with changing the way my country works in order to accommodate foreign nationals.

The happy medium is not changing our language, but doing everything we can in order to make it easier for immigrants to learn English. I think that's more then fair...this would involve any type of education deemed necessary all paid for by the Gov. Lord knows we've wasted enough cash on other things...Mars

Even if we had to build seperate schools...this alone would increase jobs, education and generally provide a basis for a better quality of life. All of which could be improved on as we feel our way into the 22nd Century as a bigger better America...that speaks English.

Is that not acceptable?

[audtatious]

Welcome to my house, make yourself at home. Oh, you want the Master Bedroom instead of the Guest room. Ok??? Oh, you want to have your dinner served to you in my bed so you can wake up nicely to take a long hot shower in my tub so you can go outside to lay out by my pool? And you want me to serve you what for lunch???? AND a cocktail? I can't watch TV aftr 7pm because it may interrupt your relaxation time?

[OriginalWheelman]

Lord knows we've wasted enough cash on other things...Mars

I beg to differ. Space travel is very important. A lot has come from space travel, and we really are going to need another planet soon.

[WDRacing]

I'm totally down with wasting billions so long as I get a ride to the moon

[HashiriyaS14]

I DO think that this statement was bad politics from Obama, as is any other "I'm embarassed of America" kind of statement. The Democrats can't seem to stop making these sort of "self-loathing" (greg's terminology) statements, it hurt Kerry in 2004.

Anyway, materially, I think we're focusing on nothing. He said this for political reasons, albeit shxtty ones. All candidates say things so that they'll be viewed in a certain light, and that's what he did here. He just said, IMO, the WRONG thing. He needs to remember that while it IS popular for him to be seen as internationally popular, he still needs to run and win in AMERICA.

Anyway, I *do* wish he'd reverse his stance on NCLB, that is some "flip-flopping" I wouldn't mind. My mom is a teacher and she's described NCLB's failings in detail to me.

I DO think that more foreign language training in US schools would be a good thing, but ultimately, other than *possibly* Spanish, we don't NEED the extra language skills as much as the Europeans do because we don't have a zillion tiny countries sitting next to each other with lots of cross-travel.

Everyone in the DC offices of my company, a Dutch company, speaks like 5 languages except for me. They have to, in order to be able to get around Europe well.

[skylndrftr]

Dude...we all know things change. But our language is English...if you want to come to America to prosper then you need to do your best to learn it. We do not need to learn another language so that others may prosper.

English is the most spoken language in the world...success = speak it.

I wasn't commenting on people here not learning English. I was commenting on Quote »The English brought civilization to most of the world, as one of the first industrialized nations. Their language spread with their culture and their technology.[/quote]thats where the Latin came from, its not a history we want to repeat

[OriginalWheelman]

thats where the Latin came from, its not a history we want to repeat

Why not?

We're close to having the whole world speaking 1 language. We're supposed to be embarrassed because it's the one we speak? So what? If the whole world spoke 1 language things would be a lot simpler. What is with this "we should coddle the rest of the world" attitude? They are learning English for a reason, not cause they arbitrarily decided. They want to learn our language, great, lets spend money elsewhere instead of teaching our kids what may soon be dead languages. I took 4 years of language and the time I cited is the only time I've ever used it.

[AZhitman]

The unfortunate part is that English is one of THE most difficult languages to master.

It is, like America, a "melting pot", substantially flawed, yet still preferred.

[skylndrftr]

I'll grant everyone in here (probably won't get much disagreement) that more important than anyone learning a second language in this country, is making sure our young people are actually learning good english skills.

I actually have to make a statement that abbreviations such as 'LOL' 'WTF' etc. are not appropriate in writing.

I had a recruiter comment to me that she meets lots of engineers who are ESL with better English skills than people who have been raised here.

[AZhitman]

True.

And I'd argue that even MORE important is the ability to translate thought into clear, concise, written communications. The ability to write well definitely opens a lot of doors in the work force.

[MinisterofDOOM]

Here's my standpoint on the matter:

It takes a SPECIAL kind of arrogance to expect an entire nation to adapt to you rather than be willing to adapt yourself to the new environment that YOU CHOSE to live in. I don't care what race you are, or what langauge you speak, or what country you're going from or to. The state of mind is the same. And it's disgusting. It's a small snapshot of what is wrong with a huge portion of the population of the world today.

[rn79870]

True.

And I'd argue that even MORE important is the ability to translate thought into clear, concise, written communications. The ability to write well definitely opens a lot of doors in the work force.

Any young person who understands that is well on their way to a successful life. THey have no idea how much it really counts for.

[AZhitman]

Any young person who understands that is well on their way to a successful life. THey have no idea how much it really counts for.

Absolutely.

I was fortunate enough to graduate from a college that requires a fairly rigorous and comprehensive writing proficiency exam prior to graduation - not only for liberal arts majors but students in ALL disciplines.

Student athletes trembled in their cleats.

[Marenta]

You know.. as far as embarrassment goes.. there are a few things. Yes, languages. Okay. Let's see, I've had to ask for special assistance, in my very forgotten Spanish (It's been 10 years since HS. Give me a break.) because the all of the clerks in every single store in South Florida DO NOT speak English. They have BANNERS that advertise that they actually SPEAK ENGLISH as a selling point to bring in business. Same thing with Corpus Cristi, and Chula Vista. But, at least in all those locations, you might actually change the heritage from which you came.

The one thing I think all Americans should be absolutely disgustedly embarrassed about is how we all love to feed upon MSG and McDonalds. I want to personally blow up every single one of those damned Golden Arches in the world and every other fast food joint. We are so hugely obese it's like we deserve to have bigger cars just so we can drive our fat asses around in them. So, perhaps instead of focusing on the fact that we don't all know another language fluently, how about we actually ensure that our children don't end up being land whales?

[rn79870]

That's only part of the problem, to finish your plan, you'd have to take Jonny's PS2 away from him, and the internet. Instead, give him a ball and a bat.

[smockers83]

And just being a responsible parent. I remember when I was a kid, I always wanted to go to McDonalds, but my parents would only take us there once a month or two, no matter how much I complained. I didn't know what's good for me, my parents did. Now the only time I eat fast food is on road trips just because its fast and I don't have time to sit down and eat.

The main problem with kids today is responsible parenting.

[Marenta]

So, what you're saying is that it's the parent's fault.. Wow, that sounds JUST like the reasoning behind every other thing that's wrong with America's youth.

And it's the truth, too. Funny thing is, it all started when Liberals decided it was "wrong" to spank your child. Don't get me wrong, I didn't say "beat", I said "spank". I actually connive my child, since that works better on him anyway, than spanking. But, once we all started to coddle our children, it suddenly became okay to let the TV babysit them when we became overworked. And, it's alright to not make them do chores, to not hold them accountable for their mistakes, and to not make them do something more erstwhile.

Hell, it's gotten so far as to say that we coddle other fcsking countries and terrorists. For fcsking sake, these guys blew up buildings with fcksing airplanes in the middle of New Fcksing York God Damned City. And you want us to interrogate them with decency? I mean, they'd send their 6 year old daughter or son with a bomb strapped to their chest and some flowers up to you to blow your arse up in a millisecond if they had the fcsking chance. Come the fcsk on people, how much more liberal do we have to be before we end up puking the Leftie dildo we've had stuck up our ***? I'm pretty tired of this. I'm pro-choice, pro-land, pro-freedom. But, I am pro-gun, pro-military, pro-business, pro-trade, pro-conservative, and pro-republican. (Yeah, I'm pretty republican, I'm in the military, sue me.)

I'm tired of all this crap. GW Jr. grew a pair, told the UN and the rest of the world to take it up the pooper and that we were going to carry our big stick, smack some flies down that were buzzing around and then cleared the air and walked away. But, we've been in there too long. It doesn't matter who gets elected this next go around, they're going to be an imbecile. Obama or McCain, this country is screwed. All I have to say is, you all better stock up on your assault rifles and Class III and IIII weapons and gear before it goes bye-bye. Both McCain and Obama have lost love for gun control, so, there goes that idea.

Tax ........................... 0.02

[Jimefam]

WOW lots of issues in this thread. First, how did comments about obama being ashamed of americans for their lack of education turn into a mexican bashing? Obama is right that american education pales in comparision to the rest of the world. I went through the entire spectrum of education in this country and others. I went mostly to public schools here but also to expensive private schools and even charter schools that replace failing schools. I moved around so much because I liked to cause trouble and was kicked out of schools every so often leaving my parents little choice but to try different approaches. I can say that the education a child recieves in this country is far below that of other industrialized nations and a even some third world countries. On the other hand american colleges and universities are far superior to almost any countries. Perhaps this is why we see such a small amount of college grads compared to our population.

As far as mexicans expecting americans to learn spanish, that is an absurd notion that is more based on someones misdirected sense of "patriotism" than actual fact. Hitman was wondering how a US school can become 85% hispanic. The answer is very simple its economics and comfort. Spanish immigrants tend to be in lower income brackets than whites because they come from poorer countries and have to establish roots here. Because they almost exclusively follow this trend the result is whole neighborhoods of hispanics similar to what we see with african americans in this country. Also they want to live near other hispanics because it allows them to feel less alienated and in peace.

I also take issue with people who say immigrants are here to "rape" this country economically and cost our economy billions with their use of welfare and medicaid. This is simply untrue as many economist and politicians have pointed out. NY city mayor Michael bloomberg a republican has pointed out that his city recieves an economic benefit in the millions after taking into account the cost of those social programs. White americans have always had a racist element to them from slavery to european immigrants being called dagos and other slurs and forced to take low paying jobs and live in slums which is exactly what we are seeing today with mexicans. No they are not here to take over your country there will be a period of friction caracterized by the resistance and docile racism we are experencing now. Ultimately they will integrate as every other wave of immigrants has.

I can fully understand your resentment and insecurity at seeing cars here with flags on them from different countries and having to press 1 for english but be honest. That is my biggest gripe with the so called immigration debate, it is not so much to secure our country as it is we want to see less "beaners and spics" here. I am a colombian living in what is a very white part of the US and deal with alot of racism day to day and believe me it is very widespread. I take no issue with it as I realize that most of it is ignorance and misinformation but it often amazes me to see it in the most unexpected of places.

Americans should not learn a second language we should instead focus on improving our math and science skills which are amongst the worst in the world. Also spend time to train our blue collar workers in more technical skills so that when their jobs get sent overseas as they should in a capitalist economy they will prosper. As far as spanking I will say this, I was spanked and spanked and the beaten and guess what? It was no big deal it did not dissuade me from doing anything that I chose. What finally worked was my father communicating to me as a man and reasoning with me. The best tool for raising a child is an interested and invested parent.

By the way I am not a liberal or conservative. I make up my own damn mind and dont follow party politics. I would consider myself a republican if not for the religious element which has infected that party. Would love to hear your thoughts.

[AZhitman]

Welcome aboard, Jim.

I think I said my piece in the first post, and I stand by it today. I don'tWANT a "global president", and I sure as HELL don't want a president who limp-wrists his way through apologies for this country.

We may not do things right all the time. But the constant influx of people streaming across the borders for the past 200 years tells me we're doing a hell of a lot RIGHT.

[HashiriyaS14]

By the way I am not a liberal or conservative. I make up my own damn mind and dont follow party politics.

Well, you're a "something". Everyone has an affiliation of some kind, depending on what their stances on the issues are. Take this quiz and let us know where you come out:

http://www.theadvocates.org/quizp/index.html

I would consider myself a republican if not for the religious element which has infected that party.

You and me both, pal.

Hell, I actually REGISTERED DEMOCRAT this year. If you'd told me in 1999 that I would be a registered Democrat in 2008, I would have laughed myself into a seizure. That's how much the GOP has changed, although obviously that change has been in the works since Falwell and the "Moral Majority" twisted the character of the Republican Party in the 1970s.

[dwlf89]

I'm a little worried. It appears all these people who love Obama don't know anything about him, and DON'T CARE that they don't.

Wow.

couldn't agree more!

[szh]

The problem with trying to "get to know Obama" is that there is nothing to know.

No substance, no depth, nothing of consequence.

Z

[audtatious]

There seems to be a lot of smoke and mirrors in his past that are still coming to light. I'm interested in seeing what comes of the Ayres information and connections that are being dug up. I'm not saying there is necessarily anything of consequence but if there is I would like to know now instead of 2 years from now if he is elected and we've found out we have been hood winked.

[Jimefam]

Well, you're a "something". Everyone has an affiliation of some kind, depending on what their stances on the issues are. Take this quiz and let us know where you come out:

http://www.theadvocates.org/quizp/index.html

Your PERSONAL issues Score is 70%. Your ECONOMIC issues Score is 70%.

According to your answers, the political group that agrees with you most is...

LIBERTARIANS support maximum liberty in both personal and

economic matters. They advocate a much smaller government; one

that is limited to protecting individuals from coercion and violence.

Libertarians tend to embrace individual responsibility, oppose

government bureaucracy and taxes, promote private charity, tolerate

diverse lifestyles, support the free market, and defend civil liberties.

This fits me to a t.

[szh]

Lots of people took it here: zerothread/352742.

I was Centrist ... 60% on both. Described me too.

Z