M35 Mods - Too good to be true?

[azeiler]

2006 Infiniti M35 – No mods yet – Live in S Florida

I want to increase hp as much as possible as a naturally aspirated engine and without going into the motor. If I use the hp figures on Stillen's site plus others I’ve seen elsewhere I get the following increases:

• Stillen Exhaust +15hp
http://www.stillen.com/product.asp?id=S ... &model=M35
• Stillen Pulleys +10hp
http://www.stillen.com/product.asp?id=S ... &model=M35
• Cold Air Intake +7hp
• Motordyne MREV2 Plenum & ½” Spacer +20hp
• Uprev tune +10hp

That’s 60+ additional horsepower for around $2,000! That's freaking unbelievable!!! I was only hoping to maybe squeeze out an additional 50hp. But 60+..... I want to start ordering parts today! Am I being overly optimistic here? Am I missing something?(wouldn't be the first time)

I’ve also read on some forums that combining an upgraded or tuned exhaust with cold air intake actually offset the hp gains made by each individually. Is this really true? If so, how do you overcome it? And if it's true, why are so many people doing it? For me, this is the most confusing piece to the mods I want to do. I obviously do not want to spend money on things that will offset each other's hp gains (I think that's called stupidity).

[Ilya]

From my understanding...you won't get much from a CAI as most of them suffer from pulling in hot air/heat soak.

[azeiler]

That seems to make sense since the CAI is sitting inside of a hot engine compartment right next to the engine. I see the Popcharger has a heat shield, but does this really help when the entire compartment is so hot (especially here in S Florida)? Ram air would seem to make more sense. Is there something like this for the M35?

[Ilya]

There was a thread the other day about using some sort of "Z Tube" but I just joined this forum so you'll have to read that thread. I'm not very knowledgeable yet on this car as I am with the 4th Gen. Maxima.

[rgb129]

As far as the intake, I have the full injen one that goes down in the fender well. I wrapped it in header wrap and then put on thermal ducting insulation from home depot. That is probably the best route to go.

There is some great info on NOT combining the MREV2 and a spacer on this version of the VQ. You should do one or the other not both. Check the G forum out and search. They did many dyno runs and the result was one or the other. The MREV2 produced slightly higher numbers than just the spacer. On the non-revup motor, you will not see 20HP increase...more like 10-12 peak increase with the area under the curve fairly small. Again, look at the G forum and make sure you are comparing to the non-revup motor.

Doing both the exhaust and intake, you'll want to have a tune to see gains or you might actually lose some as a couple of others here experience by doing both...although that was on the 45, but I would expect something similar for the 35.

The lightweight pulleys are intriguing. I might have to look into those.

[azeiler]

I was definitely confused about the revup - I forgot the 06 M35 has the VQ motor. Maybe I'll look into something other than the MREV2 since I'd like to squeeze some more hp out of this particular mod. Any suggestions? Back to researching....

I like your idea of wrapping the intake. Do all Ingen intakes go into the fender well? If the air filter is in the fender well, don't you get water in there when it's raining? I guess I'll have to start avoiding the puddles instead of plowing through them like I usually do.

Will the Uprev tune take care of tuning the new intake & exhaust?

[rgb129]

I was definitely confused about the revup - I forgot the 06 M35 has the VQ motor. Maybe I'll look into something other than the MREV2 since I'd like to squeeze some more hp out of this particular mod. Any suggestions? Back to researching....

The revup and non-revup are both VQ35 engines...just different variants.

I still think for ~$340 (439 - $100 core refund) the MREV2 is a good deal for the gains. I am going to order one when I can get some more time to work on the car.

I like your idea of wrapping the intake. Do all Ingen intakes go into the fender well? If the air filter is in the fender well, don't you get water in there when it's raining? I guess I'll have to start avoiding the puddles instead of plowing through them like I usually do.

No, they have a "short ram" one too. Avoid those...they just suck in hot air from the engine bay. As far as water, I traded out the K&N filter for an AEM dry flow one and put on a material over the top of it that is supposed to repel the water. I wouldn't go through puddles with it, but as far as driving in the rain, I checked the first couple of times and everything was dry. The last time I was in there I also put in a piece of plastic to help direct air flow and also prevent any water from the front from getting to the fiter, just in case.

Will the Uprev tune take care of tuning the new intake & exhaust?

Yes, but you'll need to tell them your mods and send them a saved scan so adjust accordingly. Or have a local tuner do it, if you have one. They have a list on their website of tuners.

[azeiler]

The revup and non-revup are both VQ35 engines...just different variants.

I still think for ~$340 (439 - $100 core refund) the MREV2 is a good deal for the gains. I am going to order one when I can get some more time to work on the car.

Thanks for the enlightenment (although I may be more confused now). So how do I know which motor I have? Are you only going with the MREV2, no spacer?

As far as water, I traded out the K&N filter for an AEM dry flow one and put on a material over the top of it that is supposed to repel the water. I wouldn't go through puddles with it, but as far as driving in the rain, I checked the first couple of times and everything was dry. The last time I was in there I also put in a piece of plastic to help direct air flow and also prevent any water from the front from getting to the fiter, just in case.

I don't suppose you could post a picture of this. Do you remember what material you put over the filter? Did this intake produce a noticable difference (i.e. fun-to-drive factor)?

What about exhaust? Stillen says "this is also one of those vehicles where a full catback adds nothing but expense and shipping weight." What about headers? High flow cat(s)? Larger pipes? I see the G guys getting all this stuff. Is this available for M35's?

I have about $2K to spend and want to get the most bang for the buck. Feel free to make suggestions.

[rgb129]

Thanks for the enlightenment (although I may be more confused now). So how do I know which motor I have? Are you only going with the MREV2, no spacer?

You have the non-revup. I am going to go with just the MREV2.

I don't suppose you could post a picture of this. Do you remember what material you put over the filter? Did this intake produce a noticable difference (i.e. fun-to-drive factor)?

I will the next time I need to get in there. I will post a picture of the wrapped upper part of the intake. The filter cover is made by Outerwears. Google them and you'll see what it is. The butt dyno didn't really feel it. It changes the sound...there is more of the growl from under the hood.

What about exhaust? Stillen says "this is also one of those vehicles where a full catback adds nothing but expense and shipping weight." What about headers? High flow cat(s)? Larger pipes? I see the G guys getting all this stuff. Is this available for M35's?

I went the custom route on the exhaust. I cut out the stock Y and put in a magnaflow X-pipe, 2.5 inch pipe, Vibrant resonators, and magnaflow mufflers. I am seriously considering putting on G headers with high flow cats. There is plenty of room to do so when I looked at it while the car was on the lift for the coilovers.

I have about $2K to spend and want to get the most bang for the buck. Feel free to make suggestions.

I personally would do the MREV2, exhaust, and uprev first. I would go custom on the exhaust and do the whole thing...headers all the way out since you'll be getting the uprev. This will probably put you over the $2k though. One option is to do just part of the exhaust now...from the cats back with an X-pipe. The exhaust made a noticeable difference, especially at highway speeds. I also did my own grounding kit which made a difference in throttle response and probably some more power. It was cheap to due...just the cost of the wire and the ends.

I have some pics of the exhaust here. They are crappy cellphone pics...but you get the idea.

[wingFeather]

I've never seen someone so excited to get 50 HP for $2,000. That is a terrible deal.

[azeiler]

rbj129 - Thanks for all the info and pics!! I think I'll start with the MREV2 and grounding kit. From there I'll have to decide what I'm going to do (or willing to live with) about the exhaust.

If you already got rid of the y-pipe, why not go straight back? Why the x-pipe?

Doesn't the magnaflow make your M louder? I don't want to necessarily make mine louder.

[Iconic]

anybody know if the crank and pistons from 3.7L engine fit into 3.5 ?

[rgb129]

rbj129 - Thanks for all the info and pics!! I think I'll start with the MREV2 and grounding kit. From there I'll have to decide what I'm going to do (or willing to live with) about the exhaust.

If you already got rid of the y-pipe, why not go straight back? Why the x-pipe?

Doesn't the magnaflow make your M louder? I don't want to necessarily make mine louder.

You do not want to go strait back. Maybe a built race car, but not a street car. Do some googling on strait vs X/H/etc and you'll find people on both sides, but look at the science behind it and less at the people pulling sh*it out of their a$$. It is all about the pulses. Yes, it is louder. It is not too bad, but def louder than stock. Maybe a hair louder than a G coupe. I dynamat'd the trunk, back seat, and floors. I haven't done the doors yet, but I will. I also put down some eDead V3 in the trunk prior to the dynamat. That helped out with the resonance from the trunk and cut down on the road noise at highway speeds.

[mexillis]

For exhaust def. get a custom one, u pay less and get more HP than stillen. They only tell you it's not beneficial because they want you to buy their product.

[azeiler]

Just got back from Meineke - they'll charge around $300 labor to install the headers, cats, x-pipe and fabricate the rest (welded). To keep it quiet, they suggested resonators and using the original mufflers. Do mufflers make that big of a difference in hp? Are all resonators the same, or are some better than others? And what determines "better"?

[fiveliterbeater]

2006 Infiniti M35 – No mods yet – Live in S Florida

I want to increase hp as much as possible as a naturally aspirated engine and without going into the motor. If I use the hp figures on Stillen's site plus others I’ve seen elsewhere I get the following increases:

• Stillen Exhaust +15hp
http://www.stillen.com/product.asp?id=S ... &model=M35
• Stillen Pulleys +10hp
http://www.stillen.com/product.asp?id=S ... &model=M35
• Cold Air Intake +7hp
• Motordyne MREV2 Plenum & ½” Spacer +20hp
• Uprev tune +10hp

That’s 60+ additional horsepower for around $2,000! That's freaking unbelievable!!! I obviously do not want to spend money on things that will offset each other's hp gains (I think that's called stupidity).

after reading everyone's thread im surprised no one stepped in here to correct this common, yet undisclosed term, frequently know as "horsepower stacking"
each mod by itself will generate a certain amount at the wheels. but combined with other mods, you will not be able to properly generate the advertised HP. a point you made in the end of your thread. and no it's not stupidity. if anything, companies like Stillen are to blame for promoting this b.s. . kinda like Gas companies advertise Premium fuel (91+ octane) as being TOP OF THE LINE fuel and the lower grade gas (87 octane ) to be the crappy inferior fuel.
fuel companies know this and continue to advertise this common misconception. Aftermarket car performance companies are no diffrent.
with all the mods listed above you should see a healthy 30-35 more at the wheels which should translate to about 40-50 more at the crank.
not far off, but not as close as you would think you should be. you are on the right track though.
only thing i claim b.s on is the plenum spacer. 20hp????? gimmie a break. you're lucky to see 5-7 more at the wheels. (which would translate to (10-12 more at the crank)
oh and yes, $2000 for all that isnt too bad....but did you forget to add up labor?

[fiveliterbeater]

For exhaust def. get a custom one, u pay less and get more HP than stillen. They only tell you it's not beneficial because they want you to buy their product.

amen to that!

[azeiler]

I'm finding some huge price differences in stainless headers. $320 for the Megan (1 piece) to $800+ for Borla. Is anyone's brand better than anyone else's? I don't see where Stillen has the 4-1 or 4-2-1 option.

The Megan Racing B18C1 GSR header has a 2.5" exhaust outlet, which I have not seen mentioned on the others. Since I will be going with 2.5" tubing, this seems like the way to go. I just don't understand why this is the cheapest brand.

What about high flow cats? Stillen says theirs is for off road use only and says they are louder than stock.

[azeiler]

after reading everyone's thread im surprised no one stepped in here to correct this common, yet undisclosed term, frequently know as "horsepower stacking"
each mod by itself will generate a certain amount at the wheels. but combined with other mods, you will not be able to properly generate the advertised HP. a point you made in the end of your thread. and no it's not stupidity. if anything, companies like Stillen are to blame for promoting this b.s. . kinda like Gas companies advertise Premium fuel (91+ octane) as being TOP OF THE LINE fuel and the lower grade gas (87 octane ) to be the crappy inferior fuel.
fuel companies know this and continue to advertise this common misconception. Aftermarket car performance companies are no diffrent.
with all the mods listed above you should see a healthy 30-35 more at the wheels which should translate to about 40-50 more at the crank.
not far off, but not as close as you would think you should be. you are on the right track though.
only thing i claim b.s on is the plenum spacer. 20hp????? gimmie a break. you're lucky to see 5-7 more at the wheels. (which would translate to (10-12 more at the crank)
oh and yes, $2000 for all that isnt too bad....but did you forget to add up labor?

I had read about hp stacking after I posted. = (
I guess it is what it is. I'm the labor except for the exhaust and uprev tune. I'm ok if it goes a little over.

I went on Megan Racing's website and they have the high-flow cats sold individually as well as the x-pipe, and everything seems reasonably priced. The non-race header is 2.25" as are the openings on the cat. Should I just go to 2.5" after the cats instead of trying to do 2.5" the whole way through? How much will it hurt performance to use the stock mufflers once I do all this stuff? I'm still trying to keep it as close to stock sound as possible. If it's too loud my wife will know I've spent money on it and will be PISSED. She's still pissed I bought it totaled and had it fixed.

I really appreciate everyone's input!

[mexillis]

if you were to put in headers and leave everything stock you will be able to hear the difference. As for doing the rest of the exhaust even with resonators plus mufflers it will sound different. If you want to get more power from your car and keep it "secret" just get UpRev, that way you can put it in the stock mode and she'll never know. But if your worried about the wifey being pissed about you hooking up your M with mods imagine how pissed she'll be if/when one day she finds out and you were hiding it from her. Dun dun dunnnnnn.....

just my 2 pesos.

[azeiler]

I just listened to a bunch of exhausts on youtube. I am going with magnaflow mainly because they didn't seem too loud, especially at idle or light driving. Since this is how I drive when the wife is in the car, I'm ok. Magnaflow has a lot of different cats to pick from, most with the option of 2.5" inlets/outlets. Anyone know anything about these? I'm still not sure if I should go to 2.5" before or after the cats.

[rgb129]

I just listened to a bunch of exhausts on youtube. I am going with magnaflow mainly because they didn't seem too loud, especially at idle or light driving. Since this is how I drive when the wife is in the car, I'm ok. Magnaflow has a lot of different cats to pick from, most with the option of 2.5" inlets/outlets. Anyone know anything about these? I'm still not sure if I should go to 2.5" before or after the cats.

I would go 2.5 after the cats. Resonators will be a requirement with the magnaflows and the wife will still know it was modified. If you want to avoid her noticing, I would go with the Element114 exhaust. I have not heard one on a 35, but on the 45's, they seem to be the least noisiest. I can tell you that I have been trying to quiet the magnaflow system down. I have the magnaflow 14816s on there now. It is not too loud (a little louder than a G coupe), but I really did not want to hear much at all inside. On acceleration, you'll hear it...even minor acceleration. I barely hear it while cruising. It does sound good when I punch it with the windows down.

I tried the reflective style resonators and the absorption style resonators, which is what I currently have on there now...no change in sound on the inside.

[azeiler]

The 14816 are the 5 x 8 oval. I am thinking of going with the largest 5 x 11 oval, which are supposed to be quieter.

[rgb129]

You'll have fitment problems with those...the 5x8 barely fit and the tips stick out about an inch too far for my tastes. Look under the rear and you'll see the lack of depth...keep in mind the pipe has to have room to make that bend back there.


EDIT: you also have the rear tow hooks to contend with. I had to cut a little of of each one to prevent the mufflers from coming into contact with them.

[azeiler]

Thanks for the heads up. I clearly have some more work to do. I may bring it to Mieneke again and this time have them put it on the rack and take some measurements.

[Noel J]

How about a 35-, 50-, or 75-shot nitrous kit for $350'ish? I'm not being sarcastic; this is a legitimate question. Why couldn't this be an alternative?

[fiveliterbeater]

A nitrous kit for $350????? Where are you finding these kick a$$ deals??? lol.

[mexillis]

craigslist, 5L

[Noel J]

http://www.nitrousexpress.com/product-d ... hp?id=1457

$369.00

[azeiler]

http://www.nitrousexpress.com/product-d ... hp?id=1457

$369.00

They also have one for Nissan/Infiniti that's $840. It's jetted for 35, 70, 100 & 150 hp. That's sweet!! I've always thought that nitro tears apart your engine pretty quick, especially if you use it a lot. And with that kind of hp, I would guess the transmission needs an upgrade. Next year's project.

As for resonators, I am most likely going with Vibrant's ultra quiet resonator (as long as they'll fit). Everything I read about them says they're the quietest ones around. I've been reading about Dynomax mufflers being extremely quiet, but not lacking in performance. Their website is pretty cool; you can pick a muffler and they simulate the sound of an engine with that muffler. http://www.dynomax.com/soundsofdynomax.php

I'm thinking that with the ultra quiet resonators, an x-pipe (also acts as a resonator) and quiet performance mufflers, I can go to 2.5" right after the headers, use high flow cats and not worry about noise.