Lunch Money

[gwoods]

I'm a very selective eater... I couldn't do it. I spend about $20 a day on food including my endless snacking.

Breakfast - home made on the stove steel cut oatmeal /dates/cocnut/agavy sweetener + energy drink ~$5
Snack - Tea (50 cent) Snickers Almond 75 cent
Lunch thai or mexican $5-$10
Snack - ice cream $1
Snack - chips $1
Snack - Apple 25 cents
Snack - granola bar 50 cent
Dinner - something home made $5
Snack - dried fruit
Snack - bowl of granola with rice milk $1

This is very typical day for me I am alway hungry

[float_6969]

Those most capable? That's what I call an excuse. It doesn't take "smarts" to plan a budget, it takes initiative.

I'll take your initiative and raise you a sacrifice. For example, I can get locally raised cow (steaks and milk) at the grocery store that's been fed no corn or GMO ingredients, no antibiotics or growth hormones. Both the milk and meat is about 60% more than normal store prices. I can get eggs at the farmer's market for $2-2.50/doz that have been fed local organic grains or get the eggs from chickens that are in a dark chicken coup fed mostly liquids with antibiotics and other awesome stuff for $1.50/doz.

So I can choose local, better-than-organic food, and break the $31/wk limit, or I can buy whatever the store offers and make the budget. The smart thing to do is to get the healthiest, purest, most chemical free food possible, but the sacrifice is to buy something that fits the budget.

^THIS!!!

[Jesda]

So far, I like James' idea of liquid bread best.

[nissangirl74]

1. It's possible to live on food stamps, healthily or unhealthily.

True

2. It's easy to eat unhealthily on food stamps.

True

3. It's difficult to eat healthily on food stamps (i.e., requires planning, careful shopping, etc.)

False. It is NOT difficult to eat healthy on food stamps - or the equivalent money- (see my previous post).

4. It's easier to live on food stamps if you have a lot of knowledge of food

It's easier to provide food for your family with food stamps if you can add and subtract.

the people most capable of living healthily on food stamps (i.e., those with the smarts and time needed to do so) are the least likely to have to do it.

I disagree. There's a lot of smart people out there who know the importance of eating healthy and they are just broke. Maybe they did something wrong to cause their financial issue, maybe not. Some people just have dumb, s***, luck.

I've fed my family with food stamps before. It didn't have anything to do with my intelligence. I'm smart. I was just poor.

[IBCoupe]

These factors combine to suggest to me that the people most capable of living healthily on food stamps (i.e., those with the smarts and time needed to do so) are the least likely to have to do it.

Those most capable? That's what I call an excuse. It doesn't take "smarts" to plan a budget, it takes initiative. We all learn basic math in public school. A food budget is nothing more than addition and subtraction. The free phone that everyone on food stamps has also includes a calculator if basic math is completely beyond your comprehension.

The library is free. Read a book on how to cook. Read a book on how to budget your grocery money. Read read read. Information is power and that power is given away freely to those that would choose to obtain it.

Life is nothing but a series of choices. Those that choose poorly usually fail.

I feel like you missed two words that I wrote. One word and a conjunction, actually.

[IBCoupe]

3. It's difficult to eat healthily on food stamps (i.e., requires planning, careful shopping, etc.)

False. It is NOT difficult to eat healthy on food stamps - or the equivalent money- (see my previous post).

I saw that, Bex, and I saw the other comments in the thread, too.

4. It's easier to live on food stamps if you have a lot of knowledge of food

It's easier to provide food for your family with food stamps if you can add and subtract.

I'm going to stand by what I wrote because I wasn't the first person to say it. If you have a broader array of recipes locked away in your noggin', you can improvise, for example, by only buying raw ingredients that are on sale, and it becomes a lot easier to food shop on a narrow budget.

the people most capable of living healthily on food stamps (i.e., those with the smarts and time needed to do so) are the least likely to have to do it.

I disagree. There's a lot of smart people out there who know the importance of eating healthy and they are just broke. Maybe they did something wrong to cause their financial issue, maybe not. Some people just have dumb, s***, luck.

I've fed my family with food stamps before. It didn't have anything to do with my intelligence. I'm smart. I was just poor.

So, there are two problems with this particular line of argument. First, I wrote "those with the smarts and time needed... are the least likely to have to do it." So right off the bat you and I are now talking about something I explicitly wasn't - I didn't say smart people aren't on food stamps. I said those with the "smarts," which is perhaps quite different from saying "smart people." It could mean ingenuity or education. I said "and time," which is something neither you nor WDRacing addressed. I also said "are the least likely," not "won't ever."

So let's get back to what I did write. Turns out, planning your meals in advance, determining the ingredients necessary, and figuring out where to shop for those ingredients to get the most bang for your buck takes time, effort, and a great deal of forethought. If you are poor, even if you've got as much forethought as the next guy, odds are you've got less of the other two. And while the cheapest route is usually to buy your own ingredients and cook from relative scratch, we're again talking about people who are less likely to have the time, effort, and forethought necessary to making that a realistic goal.

I'm not trying to get you to change your political views on this one, I'm just pointing out the economics of the thing. It's actually really expensive to be poor.

Cliff's notes of the link: two major problems are (1) bad credit, and (2) low tolerance for up-front capital investment.

[Jesda]

Knowledge is power, health, and prosperity.

I watched a documentary, I believe it was called "Fat Sick and Nearly Dead" and it included an interview with an immigrant family who fed their kids dollar cheeseburgers on a routine basis. It was a married working couple; the mom's justification was that she lacked the time or resources to feed her family in a healthy way.

I grew up poorer than the featured family and ate far better with a wide variety of quality ingredients. Knowing how to select and prepare food is key, and my mother did exceptionally well on a limited budget. Most of this is cultural tradition passed on through generations of home cooks. At some point, this information ceased to carry through. (Admittedly, I didn't absorb much of it.)


Anthony Bourdain recently went on a boating trip in Vietnam and was treated to a seafood meal. He noted that these poor fishermen of limited means ate far better than the vast majority of Americans, almost like kings due to their willingness to acquire and prepare fresh ingredients.

[IBCoupe]

Knowledge is power, health, and prosperity.

I watched a documentary, I believe it was called "Fat Sick and Nearly Dead" and it included an interview with an immigrant family who fed their kids dollar cheeseburgers on a routine basis. It was a married working couple; the mom's justification was that she lacked the time or resources to feed her family in a healthy way.

I grew up poorer than the featured family and ate far better with a wide variety of quality ingredients. Knowing how to select and prepare food is key, and my mother did exceptionally well on a limited budget. Most of this is cultural tradition passed on through generations of home cooks. At some point, this information ceased to carry through. (Admittedly, I didn't absorb much of it.)


Anthony Bourdain recently went on a boating trip in Vietnam and was treated to a seafood meal. He noted that these poor fishermen of limited means ate far better than the vast majority of Americans, almost like kings due to their willingness to acquire and prepare fresh ingredients.

Truth. Also, when "Go out and catch it yourself" is your nourishment procurement strategy, you suddenly need a lot less money. And if you suddenly need a lot less money, you can expend more of your time on your nourishment procurement strategy. The problem of poverty is always a relative one, too. The lives those guys live in Vietnam likely aren't that far below the median life lived in Vietnam. It'd be unthinkable for anyone to raise kids according to the median VIetnamese life in the United States, though.

[WDRacing]

I feel like you missed two words that I wrote. One word and a conjunction, actually.

You can feel any way that you like.

[AZhitman]

when "Go out and catch it yourself" is your nourishment procurement strategy, you suddenly need a lot less money.

I'd support that policy all day long.

For much of my childhood, my parents had a garden. My mother hated the idea of buying vegetables at the store. Oh, sure, it meant I had to eat peas and brussels sprouts and squash and okra and lots of other foods that most spoiled little a$$ kids find abhorrent, but I didn't die. Oh, sure, it meant my Mom and sister and I had to work in the garden for about an hour a day - another task most kids today might find abhorrent. Again, I didn't die. Fast food? Nonexistent. I caught bass, crappie and catfish in the local lake, and Mom was happy to cook it up. Free dinner? Yes please.

In college, I knew that if I boogied down to the food bank near U of A (on the bus) and packed food boxes for needy families for an hour, I could bring one home. Guess who didn't buy many groceries? THIS GUY.

At the risk of baiting Isaac (which I'd never, ever, ever, ever... pfft), we're finding that it's somewhat more lucrative in many instances to chill on the couch and wait for that check and free cheese.

I'm not sure when we decided that human beings don't have a built-in survival instinct, but we're doing our damnedest to breed it out of 'em.

Laziness, sloth, and envy are on the list for a reason, and as long as our elected political idiots (ALL of them) keep thinking those are acceptable traits, they'll continue drafting policy that harms society in the long run.

Let's not make excuses for people who are perfectly capable of spewing them on their own. Let's take care of those who legitimately can't contribute, and let's start slowly snipping parachute cords.

Sorry for being off-tangent. BTW, "Fat, Sick and Nearly Dead" is a brilliant production that should be required in grade school Health classes.

[nissangirl74]

Not gonna argue with you Isaac. You're splitting hairs. However, if you still feel the need to continue .... here's your new conversational companion.

[Jesda]

Is that one of those stereograms

[float_6969]

OMG IT'S T-REX!

[gwoods]

when "Go out and catch it yourself" is your nourishment procurement strategy, you suddenly need a lot less money.

I'd support that policy all day long..

In the world I see - you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway.

am I in the right club... sir

[AZhitman]

Is that one of those stereograms

If you look close, you can see Roger Waters.

am I in the right club... sir

I believe you are. If you look even more closely, you might see me pillaging fuel and provisions from my left-leaning, unarmed neighbors. It's ok, though... they believe in nonviolence, so they didn't resist.

[PapaSmurf2k3]

I agree with a lot of what Isaac is saying actually. Most of what he's saying is that it easier to get by on food stamps if you are smart (meaning, you know how to cook, what tastes good and is healthy mixed together, etc). Not surprising, seeing as how being smart helps you in just about every situation, not just food/cooking.

[IBCoupe]

I'm not sure when we decided that human beings don't have a built-in survival instinct, but we're doing our damnedest to breed it out of 'em.

Laziness, sloth, and envy are on the list for a reason, and as long as our elected political idiots (ALL of them) keep thinking those are acceptable traits, they'll continue drafting policy that harms society in the long run.

Let's not make excuses for people who are perfectly capable of spewing them on their own. Let's take care of those who legitimately can't contribute, and let's start slowly snipping parachute cords.

Sorry for being off-tangent. BTW, "Fat, Sick and Nearly Dead" is a brilliant production that should be required in grade school Health classes.

I'm curious what you imagine the property-ownership rate among SNAP-enrollees to be, Greg.

[nissangirl74]

do you consider property-ownership strictly "home/land" or do you include "stuff. like cars"

[WDRacing]

I agree with a lot of what Isaac is saying actually. Most of what he's saying is that it easier to get by on food stamps if you are smart (meaning, you know how to cook, what tastes good and is healthy mixed together, etc). Not surprising, seeing as how being smart helps you in just about every situation, not just food/cooking.

Well of course things are easier if you're smart. No one is arguing that James. We're simply saying it doesn't take much brain power to add and subtract in order to feed yourself.

[PapaSmurf2k3]

Agreed. You'd be surprised how many people can't do that though. Hell, I know a ton of people that don't know how to calculate their fuel economy.
Even still, that's not really what I'm talking about here anyway, just saying that it is easier to eat better for less money if you are knowledgeable about the food you could potentially be buying and making for yourself/family.

Sort of the difference between making ramen and salad.

I'm definitely a big advocate of "grow it/catch it" yourself logic, but as you mentioned it does take time. In some cases, you might be better off working those hours and buying the food as opposed to growing it or going fishing (again, this depends on how much time it takes you to be a hunter/gatherer. If you live on a wicked sweet lake and can catch a fish within 5 minutes of dropping the hook in the water, that's f*** awesome). This also of course doesn't take into account the "character building" from being forced to weed a garden like Greg was talking about. Sometimes that's more valuable than getting a free meal

A lot of mass production farming has gotten so efficient, they can offer the food at a price that's priced the way where everyone wins (the farmer and the consumer), even with the middle-man fee. We're sort of getting outside the scope of this thread now though :/

[AZhitman]

I'm curious what you imagine the property-ownership rate among SNAP-enrollees to be, Greg.

I'm not certain why it would matter, unless it's to gear up for some snarky retort like, "Kinda hard to grow corn and okra when you're an apartment dweller."

[IBCoupe]

do you consider property-ownership strictly "home/land" or do you include "stuff. like cars"

I imagine it's possible, but I don't know that people are growing gardens in "stuff like cars."

[IBCoupe]

I'm curious what you imagine the property-ownership rate among SNAP-enrollees to be, Greg.

I'm not certain why it would matter, unless it's to gear up for some snarky retort like, "Kinda hard to grow corn and okra when you're an apartment dweller."

In all this time, have you ever known me to resist a snarky retort?

[IBCoupe]

I agree with a lot of what Isaac is saying actually. Most of what he's saying is that it easier to get by on food stamps if you are smart (meaning, you know how to cook, what tastes good and is healthy mixed together, etc). Not surprising, seeing as how being smart helps you in just about every situation, not just food/cooking.

Well of course things are easier if you're smart. No one is arguing that James. We're simply saying it doesn't take much brain power to add and subtract in order to feed yourself.

Thing is, there's more to planning your monthly food shopping than simple addition and subtraction, isn't there?

[IBCoupe]

wicked sweet

I get the feeling your "Location" should say Canton, MA.

[AZhitman]

In all this time, have you ever known me to resist a snarky retort?

I'd have a lot less respect for you if you ever did.

With that said, I don't disagree with most what you said either.

As you know, I'm a big proponent of active case management for anyone receiving such subsistence... this could (and should) include instruction and education on not only the math of planning a budget (for meals and other bills), but also nutrition information, healthy choices, how to read labels, menu planning, basic cooking skills (such as how to make X amount of food go further), the economic benefits (and pitfalls) of couponing, economies of scale, and ethical use of taxpayer-funded subsidies (yes, I *do* think we need to tell people that just because the profit-seeking store ALLOW you to buy king crab legs with your food stamps, it is an unwise budget move and a douchey thing to do).

Until then, we're throwing money at people, hoping they'll survive for another generation, and patting ourselves on the back for being such a compassionate society. It's ignorant and short-sighted.

[WDRacing]

Thing is, there's more to planning your monthly food shopping than simple addition and subtraction, isn't there?

Not all that much. Like I said, reading is free. I consider myself a good cook. Every recipe I've tried comes from experimenting with other recipe's I've read. Find something in the list I don't have, substitute something else or leave that item out.

Life is rough. You have to work to better yourself. When you don't, how can you expect your status to improve?

[Dattebayo]

Hell yes grow/catch your own. Besides being better for you and making you less reliant on money, that ish tastes better because it's fresh (duh).

[IBCoupe]

Not all that much. Like I said, reading is free.

And time is money.

I consider myself a good cook.

Possible that might complicate the shining example you purport to be.

[Bubba1]

Hell yes grow/catch your own. Besides being better for you and making you less reliant on money, that ish tastes better because it's fresh (duh).

I dunno, I can't imagine that much caught just off the Jersey shore being that appetizing, especially when you consider all the medical/general waste NYC has dumped nearby.